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Ultimate Audio Playback / Your thoughts about the Sound Quality / Re: Challenging hiend cd player/transport result
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on: December 10, 2010, 05:33:38 pm
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Well, I can't argue with people's direct experiences. Earlier I wrote: If you can get a computer to record well, then there SHOULD be no reason why you can't get the same computer to play back well also. Can anyone explain to me why a computer would be able to record well but not playback well? I mean, what is more difficult about sending music data from a computer to a DAC vs. receiving it from an ADC and storing it? Surely whatever mechanisms might be messing it up during playback would also be evident during recording. And yet, CDs which have been originally recorded on computer seem to sound great on $$$ CD transports. Mani.
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1565
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Ultimate Audio Playback / Your thoughts about the Sound Quality / Re: Challenging hiend cd player/transport result
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on: December 09, 2010, 09:40:09 pm
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Mani, recording is very much different process, so can't be compared. Marcin, yes recording and playback are different processes. I said that the computer SHOULD be able to play the recording back to the same level of quality that it was recorded. Here's a thought experiment. You are in the studio with Keith Johnson who has just made a new RR recording using Pro Tools (or Pyramix, or Sonic Studio, or whatever) and which sounds stunning. He has the pristine digital file on his hard drive. So, you're going to tell him that he can't play it back on the equipment on which it was recorded because actually, althought this equipment is good enough to make some of the best recordings on the planet, it's not good enough to play these recordings back? (Of course, Windows X would suggest that he creates a redbook CD of the recording and play it back on a $$$ Esoteric CD player in order to hear it in it's full glory.) I think most of us here are all too familiar with the foibles of computer playback. But my point is that computer recording is no less easy. If you can get a computer to record well, then there SHOULD be no reason why you can't get the same computer to play back well also... IMHO of course. Mani.
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1566
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Ultimate Audio Playback / Your thoughts about the Sound Quality / Re: Challenging hiend cd player/transport result
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on: December 09, 2010, 08:27:24 pm
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Windows X, your posts remind me so much of the 'conversation' I had with a certain hifi dealer in the UK. He was convinced that the $20K Spectral CD player that he sells is better than my computer playback system (without actually having any idea of what my system is).
To him and to you, I would ask this: HOW DO YOU THINK THE CDS THAT YOU THINK SOUND GREAT ON YOUR CD PLAYER ARE CREATED????
You can bet your life there was a computer involved. If a computer is good enough to create the CDs that sound so great on your CD player, then it should be good enough to play the files back. Period.
Mani.
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1567
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Ultimate Audio Playback / Your questions about the PC -> DAC route / Re: SPDIF Cable, longer is better! (Interesting articel)
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on: December 06, 2010, 09:02:10 pm
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From a purely theoretical point of view, I would have thought that DAP-in-XX + 4xOS-in-DAC would have given you the best sound (8x oversampling in total). As Peter said, just DAP-in-XX with filter-off-in-DAC will give lots of HD near the real signal.
With filter-off-in-DAC, I would have thought that the oversampling switches (1x to 8x) would make no difference whatsoever. I mean, the filter is off, after all. And this is what you seem to be finding.
In any event, hopefully DAP + 4xOS is giving you good sound. And count yourself lucky that you have a true multi-bit DAC (i.e. no massive 64x or 128x oversampling) with which to try these things.
If the Ref7 could accept 176.4/192 signals through its BNC input, I think it would make it a very attractive proposition. I bet it'd work really nicely with a BNC-hiFace, XX set to QAP and the filter switched off in the DAC.
Mani.
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1569
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Ultimate Audio Playback / Your questions about the PC -> DAC route / Re: SPDIF Cable, longer is better! (Interesting articel)
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on: December 06, 2010, 05:49:51 pm
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OK, be very, very careful!
If Marcin is right, then you are now using DAP with no filter in the Ref7, right? This may be too low to go filterless - maybe Peter can give his advice.
I strongly advise against not engaging any filter at all either in XX (AP or AI) or in your DAC. You will have a lot of HF stuff coming through. It may sound quite euphonic at first, but it's not a good thing to do... Peter often quotes 30% THD, etc.
Mani.
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Ultimate Audio Playback / Your questions about the PC -> DAC route / Re: SPDIF Cable, longer is better! (Interesting articel)
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on: December 06, 2010, 05:23:17 pm
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It's just the little dip switch in the unit, isn't it?
Try to use QAP (i.e. 4x) upsampling if you can because DAP (2x) isn't going to be high enough without extra filtering. I think QAP is the filterless lower limit, with OAP (8x) or higher being the ideal.
In any event, keep the volume down as you're trying these things out because you may get some HF stuff coming through (depending on your system).
Let us know how it goes.
Mani.
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1573
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Ultimate Audio Playback / Playback Tweaks and Source related subjects / Re: JPlay Part Deux: A new controversy?...
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on: December 06, 2010, 02:32:03 pm
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I think there's an issue with nomenclature here. Although there are no precise definitions, mine are as follows:
Upsampling is done before the filter in the DAC
Oversampling is done during the filtering in the DAC
So Josef, when you say turn the oversampling off, most people would not be able to do this. 99.9% of DACs are delta-sigma, and therefore by definition need oversampling to work. Some DACs have the capability to upsample 2x or 4x. This is sometimes switchable on/off.
Arc Prediction is a means of upsampling in the software. If you have upsampling in your DAC, try to switch it off if you can. If you have a true multi-bit DAC, try to switch the oversampling filter off, or bypass it. If you have a delta-sigma DAC (highly likely), see if you like the sound of AP - you may, or you may not, depending on your DAC.
Mani.
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