Hey Coen,


From what I have read Bybees work at a quantum level to reduce noise in any electrical circuit. I am pretty sure that noise levels are reduced regardless of frequency so should work in digital too - but would you need to reduce quantum noise in digital circuits? would quantum noise affect trigger levels square wave shape mmmm that could be a whole discussion apart.

The scientists that developed Bybees were able to measure base noise levels and used an empirical approach to reduce it. They had a hunch where to start but basically used expensive and exotic materials (gold silver special ceramics) and played with amounts thereof to "slipstream" electrons thereby stripping them of quantum noise. As no one really understands the quantum world (Feynman said anyone who thinks they understand quantum mech's has not read it properly) and as an empirical approach was taken I doubt that anyone really understands how they work.

Anyway I fitted mine early today to the Orelino's and will report later.

Cheers

Paul

It took me from 830am until 6pm to get the speakers unpacked in and working!  OK much of that was down to making the wiring neat and tidy but also I kept getting calls from work. They obviously did not realise the importance of this!!  Added to that I have a lump on my head after banging it on the edge of a table, two strained fingers from lifting my old speakers out and a wood splint in a finger from the Orelino packing cases. Other than that all went well.

And how does it sound? you will have to wait until later when I have more time write a post 

Cheers

Paul



 

Some very big boxes just arrived!!!!

Hi Joachim - very interesting I read about this a couple of years ago and filed under "must try that" but forgot. Just in time to try with my new Orelino's which are due this week. As the benefit is to reduce/remove reflections in the cable then using BNC/RCA converters probably will not have much adverse impact.

Nice one!

Cheers

Paul

Hey Peter - By coincidence I found out today that there are plans to change the way houses in the UK are wired. It seems that the IEE are at last considering getting rid of the mains ring approach and wiring houses like they do in (most) of the rest of Europe. The ring main is the reason plugs have fuses here in the UK they are required if there is a fault condition that could arise if the ring is broken. Maybe our hifi enthusiast children will end up with no plugs on their hi fi!!

Paul

Very simply I did not hear any standing waves at Peter's and I did not hear any standing waves at Mani's. None ......... zippo!!!.

As Peter mentioned there is one corner in Peter's room where if you stand right in the corner looking at the wall (with Dunce's cap on ha ha) there is a strange room effect. Bizarrely though if you turn around and face outward it seems to disappear. Odd! but other than there really are no standing waves that I could hear.


MMmmmm .... weren't we listening to W8 and your MkII's completed with notch at 90Hz? seemed to me on most recordings to be bass light although I have to agree that the double bass on that particular Mule recording seemed fine.


Yes I have to say I was surprised to hear a double bass so clearly coming from a particular direction. Simply because I never heard that before. I guess the reflections and standing waves in most (all!) other listening environments including mine preclude that. It is very well established in audio theory that all sound can be directional it is just that I never heard it actually achieved before.

Cheers

Paul

 

Hey Joachim - Absolutely correct and from what I have read it is not even possible for experts to computer model what happens in any room because small irregularities in the build of walls etc produce big differences in reflections of long bass wavelengths.

Even so the directivity of bass in Orelxx and zero phase difference between channels in NOS1 prevents many of the reflections to start with. Anyway there will for sure be room effects.

Paul

Hi Todd - thanks for posting a picture of your system. Very impressive that is a serious number of drivers and must sound very impressive. Shame I do not live nearer I would have liked to "pop" in for a listen.

It will be interesting to hear the Orelino's in my room as the implementation will have some significant differences compared with Peter and Mani's only because of the odd shape of my room. It will certainly test Peter's assertion that the sound (in the bass?) is pretty much independent of room shape and size.

The time is approaching!!

Cheers

Paul

With the time of Orelino delivery imminent here are my brief impressions on sound quality I heard first at Mani's and then Peter's.

Horn Sound In both cases the familiar characteristic horn sound was clearly evident. I don't really know how to describe it so I won't all I can say is that with all horns I have listened to previously it was not something I could live with. However Orelxxx is clearly the best horn implementation I have heard - and after a very short adjustment period I forgot about it - so no problems because of the other virtues (see below).

Bass Bass was very light at Mani's and was my biggest concern. Mani improved it substantially after Nick and I left as posted by Mani. However, at Peter's I also found the bass to be light. Certainly that was the biggest single worry because for me good quality and quantity of bass it totally essential to enjoy music. So why did I go for the Orelino's anyway? simple really the measurements show that the bass output of the Orelino's was "correct" but also it is very configurable. My feeling was that if I did not like it then I would fix it. However, from recent posts it seems that Peter may have fixed it anyway.

Rough a Bit Edgy I have to say I found particularly with Peter's system there was a tad rough presentation in the higher frequencies. My strong feeling is that a slick slipstreamed flow of electrons that have been stripped of noise (more to follow when I have my new speakers) before they enter the drivers is totally essential especially with a high sensitivity horn. Also I had misgivings about Peter's use of coax for line level inputs to the MkII's. That is something I have tried before and did not work for me at all (not at all!!). I am making tried and tested interconnects that I have used on many occasions and I know to be of impeccable performance. Notwithstanding this I quickly jump to Peters defence in that he has to use "things" of known and measurable performance so hi fi "cooking" is not and cannot be on Peter's agenda.

Imaging compared with what I normally hear imaging was not particularly good. We played an album I know very well and is IMHO very well recorded but it sounded recessed and very poor. This was almost certainly due to that fact that Peter's MkII's are very far apart - out of necessity as Peter and Ciska like to look out of their window!!. But anyway that is a minor point. I have no choice in my room they will be much closer together.

High Frequency Precision I nearly forgot to mention one concern I still have is the precision of high frequencies via the horn. It still sounds to me that the those precise high frequency sounds are a little diffuse in a horn. Certainly compared with the ribbon driver I currently use. Could it be a feature of a compression chamber. Not sure but I am hopeful that this will not be a problem. Or maybe horns show more detail I just dunnow. We will see.

So what did I like?

Voice singing voice was simply sensational easily and by a long way the best I have heard. Stripped of harmonic distortion (I assume) human voice sounded knock out to my ears.

Bass Speed & Quality again simply knock out the best I have heard anywhere. And with the correct weight in the bass (missing at the time I have to say) something special.



I think that about covers it. All in all I felt that there was sufficient in what I heard to make a decision and that any short falls in my expectations could be overcome by tweaking and setting up at home.

Wow I did not realise that Peter (or rather Ciska) had fixed Todd's NOS1 FOC  - Peter told me about what happened to Todd's NOS1 when I was over in Holland and it was the weirdest problem imaginable with no real clue as to what was wrong.

What I do know (having done it myself) is the amount of work that Ciska did with investigations and then repair to Todd's NOS1 and I would not wish that on anyone. It is a serious amount of work.

As Peter mentioned elsewhere the dexa was still in my NOS1 when it was upgraded but only because I could not be bothered to remove it and put the old clock back in. When Peter measured my NOS1 it was fine and to spec. I have to say that I consider myself very lucky that was the case and I freely admit to being very apprehensive when Peter hooked up my NOS to his "all seeing" and very impressive measuring system.

With NOS1a performance as it is now I would not advocate any modifications by anyone. My query of Todd about the dexa was a pretty thoughtless one and was not intended in any way to encourage anyone to make any modifications.

Cheers

Paul

Todd - also is there any chance you could post a picture of your system I would love to see that big radiating area!!

Cheers

Paul

Hi Todd - Great to read your post on NOS1a . I know you had a pair of Dexa's at each end of your USB link are you still using them?

I have them installed with my NOS1a they are well worth keeping from what I hear.

Cheers

Paul

Hi Mani - for the test I was going to not connect the dedicated earth (i.e. the spike in the garden) but connect the mains earth through to the centre tap earth on the secondary of the balanced transformer. That is not a problem and is actually the way the transformer was connected originally. That way the test would be "apples" versus "apples".


That's the default standard for the balanced transformer should not be a problem.

As I am only interested in how a transformer may affect transient response I am not interested in the earth other than it is quiet and similar in both set ups. So should work OK.

I will be posting about all my experiences relating to my "nearly" new Orelinos so expect a number of posts upcoming.

And of course I shall be totally honest as I know that Peter expects nothing less!!

But first of all why "nearly" new. I recently had an away day (or two) in Holland and was fortunate enough to stay at Peter's for a night and to experience his excellent hospitality. Apart from me dutifully wearing a pair of orange socks (the things one does to keep ones hosts happy!!) and sitting down in the evening to watch Holland in the semi finals of the World Cup (with Ciska, Paul and Peter) we of course listened to Peter's Orello MkII's. I will cover that listening experience in a separate post.

During the evening though we went down into Peter's basement and had a forage around. And low and behold there were the "original" prototype Orelino's. Seemingly forgotten and unloved they were in pieces and spread around the basement floor. These were the original Orelino prototypes that Bert spent many hours and many months of toil building. They are the very same pair that ended up at the X-Fi show (see attached photo).

Prior to the visit I had been carefully measuring my room to see how I could fit the Orelino's in. Peter very obligingly spent much time emailing over exact dimensions until I was satisfied that I could fit them in (I hope I can anyway!!).

So that was it I decided (more on why in a later post) to buy a pair and having measured them in the basement they would fit (just!!!!). But for sure they will dominate the room!.

But that is not the end of the story - I subsequently found out from Peter and Bert that future Orelino's will not be the same as those prototypes. This is for various commercial and build (i.e. not technical) reasons. All future Orelino's will be essentially cut down Orello MkII's. So in other words the panel in future Orelino's will be the same as the MkII but not as high. That is entirely logical and Peter assured that there will be no performance difference.

However, that created a problem. The dimensions of the "new" Orelino/MkII panel (flatter with wider throat) is not good to fit my room. The deeper profile with narrower throat of the prototype fits my room better.

But then more problems!! - the prototype Orelino speakers were finished hurriedly probably to meet the show deadline and so needed more work by a carpenter to meet Bert's very high standards. Also there were no electronics and indeed no back panel at all. All the electronics of the prototype Orelino's were in boxes cunningly hidden under a table at X-Fi. I think Peter told me that in confidence so that is between just you and me OK?.

That is why Bert has been very busy recently because he has had to have built special sized back panels just for the electronics and much other work besides. So really they are completely re-worked. 

And what of the finish? - well luckily the finish is exactly what I would have chosen for my room anyway. The veneer looks great. I might have considered light coloured horns but on reflection I suspect it would have been difficult to get exactly the right shade to match the veneer so as they are they are just about what I would have chosen anyway.

So that was lucky!!

Anyway that is the story of my "nearly" new Orelino's. And for me I have to say I have sold them to myself on the basis that they will be exclusive to me and another pair the same will never ever be made!!

Cheers

Paul

 
 

And while I mention Balanced Transformers I am considering how to configure the mains supply for my system with the (nearly) new Orelino's. I shall of course have a separate mains ring for Music PC, NOS1a and amps (in Orelino's) all supplied via a separate dedicated earth. Which is what I have at the moment (that will entail lifting floor boards in the upstairs bedroom - more fun and more photo's to come    )

However in the current setup the power supply for the hi-fi kit comes from a dedicated balanced transformer. The balanced transformer provides the benefit of a very very quiet earth (which is also dedicated via a spike in the garden). So that is a GOOD THING. However, at the end of the day it is a transformer with great big coils of wire in it which MAY limit the transient response of the system. And that could be a BAD THING. Now it will not be too difficult for me to test the difference between balanced supply and normal supply when I get my new speakers (uurrggh more work). And of course I shall report back on the results.

However, I was just wondering if anyone out there has tried it? Bert or Peter have you tried it? I would of course expect the new Orelino's to be much faster on transients than my current speakers so while I have not really noticed a difference before I may well now.