Hi Jack - no problem doing that but not sure it helps. The issue here is the time taken to copy files across - connection and access now seem reliable.

duurrgh!!! and as I previously got rid of fans disconnected dvd drive etc to get best SQ ..... I must be turning senile!!!

Thanks

P

No not related at all. I just wanted to know if there is any SQ benefit in access files over a network compared with accessing files from a local USB disc if the "copy to..." option is in operation.

Hi Peter - not sure what I did but it is working now and it is working through a router.

Before I was using a USB disc with the music files on I used to set "Copy Files to XX Directory by standard" on and I thought with that option ticked the USB link could not affect sound quality because the file would first copied to and played from (RAM) Disc and not from the USB Disc. Was I wrong?

Cheers

Paul

I am trying to set up XX to access music on another server during playback in minimised o/s. No problem in full o/s but in minimised o/s I cannot see the server. I have the following settings

All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist

With the above settings I can access the internet in minimised o/s but I cannot "see" any other servers on the network.

Help would be appreciated.

Cheers

Paul

Hi Mani - what would be interesting is a comparison between a very short length and a long length of your favoured i/c.

But I guess that will not be easy to do!!

P

Agree with all of that. I do have a Silverstone PCIe card (currently with Dexa clock) but I can easily convert it back to its original clock. So when my new XXPC arrives maybe I can try a few things.

What an interesting couple of days for Nick and great that we are gaining more information and understanding (well maybe we are but not Peter ha ha).

So the standard Audio clock in the USB card sounds better than the Dexa clock. I have to say (as Nick has pointed out) that does not surprise me at all. With the many listens to Nicks NOS1 I have had to date (in both his system and mine) with Dexa audio clock versus my NOS1 with standard clock I have never been convinced by the Dexa in place of the audio clock. So no surprise for me there.

As for Dexa's at both ends of the USB link I cannot see anything in the above posts that says the 24Mhz Dexa at the NOS1 end made the sound WORSE in Peter's system (please correct me if I am wrong) but it seems to be the case that it did not sound better (and maybe it should sound worse if the noise profile has the Dexa PS harmonics in it). I understand that Dexa in the PCIe card could not be made to work in Peter's system (again am I correct?).

I fully accept Peter's view that this is all about noise and the inherent speed of a system to fully hear the impact of noise.

Just now I am not tempted to remove the Dexa's from my USB link just yet as in my system they sound great! (even if that is for the wrong technical reasons). But now I know there is more work to be done (Arrgghh!!!).

Cheers

Paul

On Sunday as the River Thames retreated from our doorstep (close Old Father Thames but not this time!!) my thoughts returned from the trivialities of sandbag humping and potential house flooding to the far more important subject of hi fi.

Previously I have posted about the improvement in sound quality when I moved the USB PCIe Dexa clock inside the PC case but well hidden from the rest of the PC (and its RFI) behind the hard disc case metal work. Wow what an improvement that provided and very surprising it was too at the time.

On Sunday I went one stage further and located the Dexa clock inside a dedicated metal box which was isolated from the PC earth and connected direct to a clean earth.

The result this time was subtle, I found it hard to note any significant improvement in sound quality. What this must mean in my system is that the location inside the PC was in fact well screened from RFI. Anyway the installation of the Dexa clock in a box looks much better and professional so the time was not wasted.

For sure though - good RFI screening is crucial as I found the first time I moved the clock.

I also tried a temporary lash up with the NOS1 USB Dexa in a box but again any improvements were not immediately noticeable.

Cheers

Paul

Hi Mani,

Personally I do not agree with your options that is not the way I would look at it. I would look at each of the "factors" as follows: -

1.  Interconnects are absolutely critical in my system. Short interconnects (of the right construction & materials) are totally essential here and I would not trade them off against anything - ever - no way. I have tried long high quality microphone cable for interconnects in the past and as a result they would not find a way into my system they would not be anywhere near good enough. I have done a lot of listening and my ears tell me that plastic (including PTFE) used in the construction of interconnects and speaker cable is a VERY BAD THING. So they are banished from my system. By the way from what I have heard the bad effect of plastic is not an LCR electrical thing at all it is something else.

2. USB cable In respect of USB cable length I use 3m normally (only because I do not happen to have a shorter cable). I have just tried (for you!!!) a 5m extension USB cable and connected that to my 3m cable making 8m in all. I am struggling to hear any difference (of course DEXA's may help a lot). Certainly if there is a difference it is something I might trade in for a big benefit elsewhere.

3. Vibration So that leaves vibration and this is where I struggle because I have not spent enough time testing vibration isolation (yet!!). As you know my NOS1 is mounted in a vibration reducing frame. The shelves are made of specially constructed balsa and they in turn are suspended on tensioned cords. How well does that work? I have no idea except that in the bad old days when I had a record deck the performance was absolutely transformed for the better using the balsa/cord arrangement. But for NOS1 is it good enough? - I just do not know.

4.  RFI again this is a difficult one but I have a sneaky feeling that what I intend to do with your NOS1 and your PC when I come up - well RFI may just possibly be less of an issue. But I would need to do much testing  - I cannot say for sure yet.

So what I am saying is that experimentation and testing is needed: -

a. first try to find out how much vibration isolation is a factor (so try the basement, the faraday cage and compare with the listening room all with long interconnects and long usb cables). It might be that your hydraulic support works well or if you want we could try my stand as well at the same time or even also try and floating water bath!!

Obviously if any of the above isolation techniques is effective (or good enough) then the answer is simple. But if isolation of the two supports is not good enough then the answer is also simple - find a method of isolation in the listening room that does work!!. That might not be possible but certainly I would try anything to find a solution to that. It is something that I intend to do in my system soon (when the weather permits) because I can try my NOS1 outside the house fairly easily with pretty much the same electrical interconnects. Watch this space. This is not possible just now as the River Thames is in my back garden just now & we are sitting here with crossed fingers.

Also I have not tested long interconnects of the construction I use it might be that they work well again I just not know until I try them (and I do not have the materials to build them just now). However, calculations I have seen elsewhere indicate that interconnect length is important and they should be kept as short as possible.

Of course that does not answer your question but I would not go for one option without testing. For me I would have to experiment to find out what to go for - and given how good I think your system is potentially going to sound with the Orelo's (or Orelino's I lose track) it is worth spending some time to get right.

Cheers

Paul

This is an excerpt from an interesting article about grounding and TL lighting:-


Single phase derived from three phase is particularly bad.


Apparently balanced supplies were adopted to minimise this problem. Balanced transformers were used to isolate the incoming supply from the load suppl. So a balanced transformer secondary allows PE to be connected to the 0 on the secondary (115 0 115). The result is cancellation of noise that is induced equally(ish) on the +115 & -115 resulting very low noise on PE.

So if you turn on the lights and your NOS1 bursts into flames at least you know what probably happened.

I seem to remember that the supply to Nick's house is 3 phase and so his mains is single phase derived from it.

Paul

Hi Coen,


Do you mean the black wire (or blue in my NOS1) that runs from the USB female socket shield in NOS1 to PE (via a screw to the case in the right leg power supply)?

If so yes I did remove that and again made no difference.

Paul

Hi Anthony - we isolated the USB shield at NOS1 (actually with some teflon tape) end also we isolated the PCIe ground at the PC (the bracket we covered in electric tape). That's as far as I went but Nick went further by isolating the earth on the backplane as well (IIRC). Obviously that was before we fitted Dexa clocks. Nicks feeling was that there were small changes in SQ but he found it difficult to decide if they were improvements or not and also (again IIRC) thought that the changes were inconsistent. So further investigation was dropped!

Neither of us tried the PCIe card on a riser cable with independent supplies.

The only other thing I tried (and I think Nick also) was to install a linear 5v regulated supply for the molex on the Paul Pang card but that sounded significantly worse (covered in detail in separate thread).

That's as far as we got.

Cheers

Paul

Nick & I played around with isolating the USB card and USB plug at NOS1 about a year ago but as neither of us could hear significant differences we did not proceed. Nick felt he could hear small differences but nothing much. IIRC Todd mentioned that he did not hear any difference either.

Anyone else? if so please post.

Nick & I both have balanced supplies and dedicated earth so our PE's should be low noise. Obviously I cannot know if that is relevant but worth mentioning.

So at least 3 of us but maybe more that have not posted.

I shall be going to Mani's when he gets his Orelino's (soon???????????) so we can try a few checks then (he also has balanced supply).

I have mentioned before but worth mentioning again here that at one stage I tried something crazy with my earth arrangement. My amplifier case is not connected to anything it is only connected to PE (the PE at that time was connected to NOS1 and PC and balanced transformer then all back to earth spike in the garden). So I then connected the amplifier case direct to the earth spike in the garden. I also connected NOS1 case in the same way direct to the earth spike (of course NOS1 case is also not connected to anything except PE). So as far as possible a Star arrangement.

WOW what a difference the sorts of changes you have described for the PCIe isolation. I was very surprised at the time I was not really expecting any improvement. Of course I cannot know if that is relevant but also worth mentioning.

Paul

As I (and some others) cannot hear any difference by isolating PCIe card and the USB at NOS1 - could that mean there is a more fundamental problem to be addressed in cases where it does make a difference?

Just a thought?