901
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Ultimate Audio Playback / Music Storage and convenient playback / Re: Sterescopic imaging...
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on: January 30, 2013, 12:49:41 pm
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Nothing to do with music but more clear how sensitive people are to situations that are not natural.
Absolute phase is one, having the left and right channels exchanged (both still in the same phase...) is another one (even if you've never heard the recording before, still sounds different!) and to come back to my topic is when you exchange the left and right image... try it if you have something that shows 3D (shutter glasses or special 3D displays), your world will be upside down when you look at the wrong combination.
This clearly shows how the brain CAN'T be fooled if your reference is accurate. The same with audio...
Bert
Hum... I have to admit that I have lost a few references since my girlfriend is in my life I tend to hesitate a lot more and ask myself questions that I never imagined I would ask one day Alain
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903
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Ultimate Audio Playback / Music Storage and convenient playback / Re: Inverted absolute phase vs inverted absolute phase
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on: January 30, 2013, 02:39:08 am
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The difficulty is that wrong Absolute Phase (AP) could be influencing your judgement of recordings or systems if you get it wrong. Perhaps a quick list of SQ differences. Incorrect absolute phase is called the "Muffling Distortion" or "Wood Effect".
Get AP right: Cleaner more dynamic and natural sound. Greater separation of instruments and voices especially in the depth field. Main singer/performer will come more forward in the mix. Better deeper more detailed bass. Cleaner more detailed and "dynamic" high frequencies, especially cymbals. More natural/better harmonics on stringed instruements. Overall more dynamics and less disortion.
Get AP wrong: Dynamics muffled but sound not necessarily easier on the ear, because of distorted higher frequecies, sibilance, splashy cymbals, etc.. Depth of field shortens and singer/s retreat into the mix. Less grip and drive in the bass. Irritating to listen to for longer periods.
Sit off centre and the sound will tend follow you to the nearest speaker.
Will continue at some later stage, because I am off to an appointment
I am taking notes and will try to see if I can differenciate these states through the mentioned characteristics. Thanks from the cold Quebec Alain
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904
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Ultimate Audio Playback / Music Storage and convenient playback / Re: Absolute phase vs inverted absolute phase
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on: January 30, 2013, 02:13:49 am
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... Maybe I was surprised to know that some people are sensitive to this, but there does not seem to be many expressing themselves about this on the net...
Well I create a little controversy, and ask for XXHE users to challenge themselves to listen for the differences. I am one of those unfortunate/fortunate people who is senstive to the SQ change from absolute phase being incorrect. And I can't understand how people can't hear it! Especially reviewers - if they can't hear it, they shouldn't be reviewing! Peter it is not just cables that affect absolute phase. Each of the electronics in the recording chain can have varying (positive or negative) absolute phase output. The system configuration will determine the final absolute phase outcome. Same with the playback chain. A record that sounds best on one system with positive absolute phase might sound best on another system with a negative absolute phase setting. (e.g. The difference could be the result of one amplifier having three gain stages while the amplifier in the other system has four gain stages). It is a system thing. In a different life, 30 odd years ago, I was responsible for a preamp incorporating absolute phase switching. To my mind, nothing has changed in those 30 years, and yet many people who can hear the minutest changes from a small software upgrade , still can't hear the differences that absolute phase makes - really doesn't compute with me. Frank Hi Frank, To tell the truth, I have done many things... That did not really make a difference in sound (for me of course), but as I often repeat, I had abused my ears quite a bit during my young adult years, listening to music loud enough to compete with a supersonic jet fighter... Nothing was about pre or post ringing... Ears were ringing way too often I am not surprised I don't discern differences that easily, but there are so many other factors to take in account: environment, quality and integration of components, the art of listening, knowledge... Like you say, it could be fortunate (or not) to be able to identify such specific aspects of sound. Well, this hobby is wonderful, but it can really "suck" you in - or "blow" you out I hope I understood the principle Alain
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909
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Ultimate Audio Playback / Music Storage and convenient playback / Re: Inverted absolute phase vs inverted absolute phase
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on: January 29, 2013, 12:22:10 pm
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Alain, probably you have read this article but just in case: "Phase issues take on a far different magnitude in a recording situation, and can quickly become complicated. In most recording sessions, we’re dealing with multiple instruments and multiple microphones. As sound waves of different frequencies reach different microphones at different times, the potential for one microphone’s diaphragm to receive a positive phase while another receives a negative is greatly increased, and the relationship between all of these different waves’ phases can be somewhat unpredictable. In fact, the more mics in play, the more inevitable some sort of phase issues become". This is the complete article: http://www.uaudio.com/blog/understanding-audio-phase/Juan Oops, we wrote at about the same time Yes, this is what I al looking for Thanks Juan Alain
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910
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Ultimate Audio Playback / Music Storage and convenient playback / Re: Inverted absolute phase vs inverted absolute phase
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on: January 29, 2013, 12:19:36 pm
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Ah... I see that the link you provide is related to polarity between 2 channels, like say the red wire is connected to the "+" and the black to the "-", and on the other speakers the red is on the "-" and the black on the "+". This is the relative phase between channels... Using the same example, I was seeking for a way to differenciate all speakers connected with red wire "+" and black "-", as opposed to inverting that (red with "-" and black with "+")... Alain
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911
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Ultimate Audio Playback / Music Storage and convenient playback / Re: Inverted absolute phase vs inverted absolute phase
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on: January 29, 2013, 12:11:04 pm
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Hi Juan, I have done this test, but it was not conclusive for me... There is (or was) a website where the author talks extensively about this (he seems to be sensitive to inverted phase), but there does not seem to be a way to determine easily if a file is in inverted mode or not... It is said that to train our ears to find landmarks can help determine the qualities of a recording or what to compare, but for this I haven't found an easy way other than listening... Yet I know that in the same recording, some components could have been in inverted phase while some others would not... It does not make much sense, does it... Regards, Alain
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914
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Ultimate Audio Playback / Music Storage and convenient playback / Inverted absolute phase vs inverted absolute phase
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on: January 29, 2013, 04:01:09 am
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Peter, I know that topic is not recent, that's why I am creatind this as a "new" topic. I do have a remote control for my pream. Since it is quite an old preamp, it is wired... There is an absolute invered phase button that I can press "on the fly", but... Well, I don't find it easy to determine if a song is in inverted phase or not. For sure it would be meaningful if I was starting this with "I can hear a difference"... But I am not sure, so I should assume that I don't. My question is: can you determine with a quick analysis if a song starts in absolute inverted phase or in its contrary ? I'll start with that, before asking other questions... Thanks. Alain
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