XXHighEnd

This is a bit of a fun topic, but it may help you to find how revolving your chain is.

For those who read this later than the current 0.9z-8a version, go to here and ONLY download the main zip from it (there may be additional zips in there later) :

XXHighEnd Model 0.9z-8 (XTweaks and official W8 support)  (http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2376.0)

Then go to this post and unzip the XXEngine3.exe which is downloadable from there over the folder you created for the normal download above :

Re: 9Z-8a and SFS (http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2380.msg24328#msg24328).

Now set the SFS (Split File Size) in Settings at 2 for 705600 Redbook (CD) output but devide it for each lesser output your DAC can take. So, if that is 352800 make the SFS 1 and when it is 176400 make it ~0.5. This is about the frequency of "ticking", and when this little rule is applied ticks will express at 4-5 times per second.

You may read into the subject somewhat by means of the topic of the last referred to link.

Now, I myself already had problems hearing them after being pointed to it by Bert (see that topic). But, since I was told they were in there, I finally could hear them. Later, a but knowing about the signature, I could here it in some other tracks as well. In the numerous albums I played after this knowledge, not.

Do notice that it needs the download of the second link above because otherwise the ticks are more profound (from the original download only).

Next I thought how it could be possible that Bert came up with it while I myself did not. Moreover, the few who responded to the download of the second link told "hey, thanks, ticks have gone now !". Only Paul, per another topic, just yesterday mentioned that he too could perceive the ticks.

And so it got me thinking :
We are with a few out there that undertook everything and all to eliminate (by itself inaudible) noise. I should be amongst those, Bert will and Paul is. Not everybody will be at the same level with this and besides not everybody's chain will be as resolving, this noise level matters.

Since I yesterday found the culprit, which I found to be easily measurable as well, we can now wonder what the state of our system is when we NOT hear those ticks. Not much good perhaps ? Well, it shouldn't be the best.

FYI, the ticks are about illegal tranients happening this 4-5 times per second, which is from one sample to the other. Actually it is about missing samples, which is why the too high change of level-step occurs. But, it really is from one sample to one other sample. Not longer. So, for 705600 output, think that the tick lasts for 1/705600 of a second. This *is* a bit of a moot thing because any voltage jump implies for something we could call a tick, but still it is about the shortness of it and this relates to the electronics used and speedyness of the speaker. IOW, when all can't follow this jump, it will express as a kinf of sweep and won't be a tick at all (and it will be inaudible).

It is like Paul just described in the other topic Ticks are Back (http://(http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2394.msg24434#msg24434)) : the louder the music the more audible the ticks should be. This is difficult, because the louder the music, the more it will overwhelm the ticks.

Killing Engine3 right in advance of playback *does* make a difference in this case. The point of skipped samples (so, which samples) will change (this is inherent to how the bug is). However, once a second Play attempt has been made without killing Engine3, all subsequent attempts will work out the same.

Now, after putting out this long introduction, can you hear the ticks/anomalies or can't you ?
The better you can, the more resolving your chain is.
If you can't at all, you know what you might want to do.

As said, a bit of a fun topic, but it could be a nice test.
Peter


PS: Any version newer than 0.9z-8c will not exhibit this.

Hi Peter,

I did not change the xxengine3 to do this test, but yes I can hear the ticks as mentionned, but with my ear quite close to a speaker.

It is the first time I am hearing this and my guess would be that it is a combination of things:
- System not resolving enough
- "abused ears" from exposition to loud music a long time ago...
- SFS that I tend to put higher than 2
- Not a really silent environment
- W8 and inability to connect with Minimized OS

Alain

Hi Peter,
ticks clearly aubible with piano solo music but not so with other kinds of music: only audibles in quiet passages and paying a lot of attention to distinguish them from the recording ambient sounds. So I am not in the premier league. Well, I already knew it but, what could I expect from my pedestrian system?  :)

BTW I never played with SFS so low but, apart from the ticks, the sound seems to be more transparent.

Just one more silly question: Is me or the tick at the starts seems to be on the left side with certain recordings and on the rigth one with others?

Maxi

Maxi,

That completely depends on the music data. Can also be from both channels, but that would be a rare coincidence.

Peter

Ticks are audible at SFS 2 and 705600 in both channels but more perceptible in the left channel. I tested it only with a song that I know very well but even so the ear must be quite close to the speaker to hear the ticks, the music is at -28.5db which in my room is the volume that I use more frequently, not to loud but loud enough.
I can hear always an audible tick at the start of the first track but not in the next ones.
No way to use other settings like SFS1/352800 or SFS 0,5/176400, I receive again the message: Your SFS is too low to allow Unattended Playback!...

Juan

Probably not the right thread to say "hello", but anywhere where one can use the phrase "there is no such thing as a bad recording" sounds like a good place to hang around! I just "discovered" xxHighEnd and Peter's efforts via another forum, and I applaud his enterprise in moving the game forward in achieving truly outstanding sound.

I will confess straightaway, and say that my efforts to date have involved good ol' CD players, simply because that's what I started with and I tune into the fiddling required in this arena.

So what am I after? Pretty simple ... to be able to put on any recording, starting with Caruso and anything beyond to the present time, and wind up the volume to any level that the system is capable of producing, fully realistic and natural sound levels, and be completely at ease listening to such.

This is a very tricky and complex journey, the slightest abberation is painfully obvious; but the pleasure when it all comes together makes it all worthwhile ...

So how does this relate to testing "the resolution of your chain"? In that I have a collection of the "worst" recordings which I use to fine tune, tweak my system -- this I find to be a marvellous tool ...

Cheers,
Frank

Hey Frank, welcome then !
I envision that no matter what topic you chose to announce yourself, you couldn't have done it better than here and in this way. All to my heart ! (uhm obviously ?).

Enjoy yourself, and I hope you can make it all for the better !
Regards,
Peter

That's impressive! A mighty swift response like that does this ol' heart good .. what the world needs is more enthusiasm, plenty of it!

I said that because lately I've been frequenting diyAudio, and the level of negativity that's flowing there at the moment is somewhat depressing ...

Just to fill in some detail: started tweaking seriously about 27 years old, when decent CD players were coming out more often. Got a top of the line Yamaha, and realised that there was a lot that could be "fixed up" in the system overall. This progressed until the day of the epiphany: suddenly I was getting sound so good, that I had never heard anywhere before, on any system, it was a true revelation! Unfortunately, as these things always go, this was a transient moment ... the sound steadily deteriorated back to normal "hifi". So, my journey, and "battle" began: to understand what was going on, and to adjust, rejig my system to consistently produce this quality of sound. An extremely frustrating path - I gave away the whole game for about 10 years because I was just not getting the answers, couldn't get a handle on things - but in recent times have made steady progress.

A key aspect is that I understand that audio replay can be staggeringly good, would totally blow most people away if they really understood how overwhelming, how convincing it can be made to be. But it is not a trivial exercise achieving that - at the moment it's exceedingly difficult getting there. One thing you mentioned in a post was the room no longer mattering; this is one of the markers of progress made, that the acoustic of the recording will completely override the space you happen to be listening in.

Thanks for tuning in,
Frank