Hey, thanks for the write-up Peter. I'm definitely on the 'very interested' list for the Orelinos. What I'm looking for over my Swings is a more dynamic bottom end - one that can better match the dynamics of the MF/HF horn. The Swings are great speakers (the best I've had to date), but I think there's just too much being asked from the single bass driver. I've found using a SET amp has helped. Having the horn driven SE and the bass driver driven PP (by the in-built bass gain amp) seems to have fixed the issue somewhat... but maybe not totally.

Of course I need to take a listen to the Orelinos before placing an order. I can't make X-fi unfortunately so will take a listen at Bert's place sometime. Looking at my diary, I doubt this will be any time this year though.

Mani.

Hey Brian, thanks for taking the time out to look at this so thoroughly. I've earmarked a day next week to swap the Asus out for the ASRock. Will let you know what I think once I've had a chance to do this.

Just a quick question. Which USB port are you using for the NOS1? On Friday I did a bit of playing around and found that the ASUS mobo USB3 port was much better than the USB3 PCIe card I'd been using. Using a PS/2 connection for both the keyboard and mouse, just a single USB3 for the NOS1, and disabling all other USB2/3 ports gave me a really nice sound.

Cheers, Mani.

This may well be why the Enopias cable is having such an affect on the sound as the shield is not connected. What is now not clear to me is how the Enopias is eliminating the noise coming through the USB cable. Is it a) because the shield is broken, or b) because the power line is broken?


I strongly suspect that the differences I'm hearing having my connections 2 and 3 in place have nothing to do with channeling noise away from the NOS1. I mean, they have zero affect on the general 'crackling' noise and the more specific peripheral noises I can hear coming through the speakers. Rather, I believe the real benefits of connections 2 and 3 are in providing a close-to-0V reference across the whole system. Ordinarily, using something like the Sauermann amp, this just wouldn't be an issue. But with the design of the Berning amp, there's an inevitable ground loop across the whole system from the PC to the amp. This cannot be good, with currents running through the USB cable and the RCA interconnects. As I've said before, my connections 2 and 3 should be forcing these inevitable currents through the additional earth wires, and not the USB and RCA cables.

That's how I imagine things working in my head at least. But again, pure speculation really. What isn't speculation at all is that they affect the sound... an in a very predictable and repeatable way.

Mani.

Hi Nick, thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts.

I've repeated your readings here. But a couple of points first:

1) On the Ridge Street website it clearly states that the Enopias has its shield connected. But I've found that it does NOT - the type B connector shield is connected neither to the type A data shield nor type A power shield on the other side. I'm not sure if this is intentional, to help remove ground loops between the PC and DAC, but it seems strange to me. In any event, for these readings I've used a standard 1.5m USB cable.

2) I have a 5m USB extension lead between my PC and the 1.5m USB cable. I have ignored the 5m extension cable in these measurements and have taken point a) as the USB type A shield of the 1.5m USB cable and point b) as the NOS1 shield.

Anyway, to my measurements using your cases:

Case 1: 0mV
Case 2: 22mV (22mV at PC)
Case 3: 3mV (22mV at PC)

If I connect my earth connection 2, these become:

Case 1: 0mV
Case 2: 6mV (6mV at PC)
Case 3: 1mV (6mV at PC)

So, my connection 2 seems to be pulling the PC chassis voltage down quite a bit, in much the same way that the NOS1 does. However, in both configurations of Case 3, the NOS1's 'voltage pull down effect' does not extend all the way back along the 5m extension cable to the PC.

Interesting exercise...

Mani.

OK, I've just taken a few measurements:

1) DC between beginning of 1m Enopias cable shield and NOS1 USB connector shield (my earth 3 connected) = 6mV

2) DC between beginning of 1m Enopias cable shield and NOS1 USB connector shield (my earth 3 disconnected) = 6mV

3) DC between NOS1 USB connector shield and Berning RCA -ve input (my earth 3 connected) = 0mV

4) DC between NOS1 USB connector shield and Berning RCA -ve input (my earth 3 disconnected) = 0mV

Readings 1) and 2) are surprising. Why is there a 6mV offset between the two ends of the Enopias cable's shield? (It's only 1m in length after all.) And does this mean a ~36mV offset between the PC in the basement and the NOS1?

Readings 3) and 4) suggest to me is that my extra earth connection, 3, is not introducing an extra ground loop. But rather it might be channeling ground plane noise away from the USB and interconnect cables. Of course, the converse could be true and it could be adding noise. But based on what I'm hearing, I suspect the former rather than the latter.

I have a voltmeter here and a basic oscilloscope. Anything else I should try to get to the bottom of why the sound is changing by connecting my earth connection 3?

Mani.

EDIT: All the above readings were with my connection 2 in place. Disconnecting this changes things. Readings 1) and 2) jump to 22mV. Again, extrapolating this to the whole length of the USB cable, this suggests a 130mV offset between the PC and NOS1.

So if nothing else, my connection 2 is at least greatly reducing the PC/NOS1 offset. My connection 3 seems to have no affect on this offset.

Hi Paul. Yep, and yep.



It's really because of your observation that I'm doing all this. In the PC, the ground (electronic earth) is connected to PE. In the Berning, the ground is connected to PE. My feeling is that my connections 2 and 3 would reduce ground loops in the USB cable and in the interconnects between the NOS1 and Berning, as there would be very little potential difference (depending on how 'rigid' my star arrangement is) between each ends of these cables.

Again, pure speculation.

Mani.

Well, this is easily tested - I have two NOS1s! I'll take the one from my office and try it in my main room.

Mani.

This is more difficult to test as it would require taking the Berning out and replacing with one of my other amps, and I don't really want to do this just now. But in my office system, I use a fully balanced setup - NOS1 going into active Genelec satellites/sub. From what I remember, the Enopias reduced some of the brightness of the printer cable even in this balanced setup. Could be a good thing, or a bad thing. Will need to try again and get back to you.

Mani.

I'll put a longer post in my 'Testing a few amps' thread. But for now I'll just say that the Berning sounds as interesting as it looks on paper. Absolutely no softness at either end of the bandwidth. And a sound stage that goes back behind the speakers for miles. The sense of recording space is incredible, especially on classical recordings. I think this is one good test of 'real' resolution. What's this down to? Its SET design? Its single output device design? Or just the fact that tubes have no hysteresis affects? I don't know. But I really like what it's doing to the sound.

Better than the Sauermann, BD-Design or Sanders amps I have? Hmmm... "Different", I'd say. These push-pull SS amps all sound way more dynamic and 'in your face' than the Berning. Also, there's no way the Berning can energise the room in the way these others can. And the BD-Design monos have a clarity that is hard to believe - better than anything else I've heard. BUT... I just think that there's a certain magic with the Berning and the 114dB horns. My hypothesis is that a horn needs to be driven single-ended and not push-pull to sound most natural...

Mani.

Yep, I'm using PS/2 for both the mouse and keyboard (using 2x 5m PS/2 extension cables, which don't seem to be affecting performance). But moving the mouse is clearly audible along with the more general 'crackling' noise. Of course this is only the case with the USB power line connected and when using the Berning amp (with all its idiosyncrasies). There's nothing, nada, when the power line is disconnected.

Mani.

Coen, my feeling is that this is a good thing. What we want to do is reduce the return current in the USB cable, as this will only increase the ground plane noise. With 2 and 3 connected, the return current has a much lower impedance return path via the thick (6mm) earth wires.

But hey, this is pure speculation on my part.

Mani.

OK, FWIW... I've played around with the USB grounding connections under my control, namely 2 and 3 in my earlier diagram. With only the data line of the USB cable connected to the NOS1, here's what I'm hearing:

1) 2 and 3 both disconnected

Very bright, thin sound. Lot's of HF stuff going on, e.g. can't hear the initial strike of cymbals as it's drowned out by too much 'glazed' shimmer. Too much sibilance on voices. Actually, voices don't sound real - there's no three-dimensionality to their edges; they sound like two-dimensional cardboard cutouts. General background is rarely totally 'black' - there seems to be a constant reverberation of some sort or other going on. This leads to the sense of 'extra detail', but I think it's false detail.

Interestingly, I had the music just stop playing mid-track on one occasion - the audio device was lost. Coincidence? Well, it's never happened before when I've had both 2 and 3 connected.

2) 2 connected, 3 disconnected

Better. Things are generally calmer. But there's still an edge to the sound. Leading edges seem to be unnaturally amplified. I start tensing up as I'm listening because I know there will be something screaming out of the speakers as soon as a leading edge (be it a vocal, a piano, an electric guitar, or whatever) comes my way. It's almost as if the music is being unnaturally modulated by the leading edges.

3) 2 and 3 connected

My preference. This simply sounds the most realistic to me. The brightness has been all but totally eliminated, and yet there's plenty of inner detail in the sound, e.g. I can hear the 'rasp' of a sax or the texture of a cello. Voices? Well, well recorded stuff is incredibly realistic - I was shocked at how good Cobain sounds during quieter pieces on my MFSL CD of Nirvana. Is it perfect? No, I don't think so. There's still the last vestiges of sibilance sometimes, but this could be down to the recordings, or even perhaps my mobo.

And to reiterate, all of this is with my 'new' cable using just the data line.

Mani.

Hi Coen, I'll back to you once I've tried a few things.

Meanwhile, I've just taken my office music PC into my main listening room and given it a go. Firstly, the 'USB noise' is identical. With a regular USB cable, I can hear the crackling noise. This increases whenever I move the mouse. It's at a level pretty much identical to that of Le Monster. When I use the new USB cable with only the data line connected, the noise is totally eliminated.

I use identical XX settings in both PCs - both have powerful CPUs and 16GB of fast RAM. But I much prefer the sound of Le Monster. This is probably down to the fact that it has a HDD and my office music PC has an SDD. In any event, it looks like Le Monster's mobo is absolutely fine (hope you're reading Brian) and also that my long USB run is absolutely fine.

No doubt it's my amp that's allowing me to hear the noise coming through the USB cable. As I've said before, it's a strange design - DC-coupled, with the ground connected to its PE. This complicates matters of course. I've attached a couple of circuit diagrams for anyone who's interested (good luck with them - they're totally beyond me!).

Mani.

Reading the John Swenson articles, it's clear that there have to be return currents or things just wouldn't work. But they create ground plane noise. What I'm trying to do is to feed this noise away from the components and into the earth by using a star arrangement to reduce as much as possible any potential difference between components.

Mani.

Hey Nick, if you ever fancy doing a bit of 'consulting' with that analyzer of yours, let me know.

Great stuff!

Mani.