XXHIGHEND-M2TECH - WIN 7

[gonz]

Since I`ve just converted from WIN XP to WIN 7, I think it might be best to start this new topic, to avoid any misunderstanding with regard to my last topic XXHIGHEND-M2TECH-WIN XP.

My first impressions are that XXHIGHEND works smoother in WIN 7 compared to WIN XP with the M2TECH ! But maybe that`s just the case on my CPU !

The sound is very close to highend ,in my opinion, compared to my Accuphase setup !In the next couple of weeks I`ll be testing the M2TECH, using RME Fireface as DAC versus Firewire connection also using RME Fireface 400 DAC !

But thumbs up for Peter  I must say that the  XXhighend software player has lifted the quality of PC musik playing to a higher level, compared to any other software player I´ve heard so far !

[ivo]

Hey gonz,

Have you tried HiFace via XXHIGHEND in 24/88 and 24/176 modes using engine#4? Does it play smooth without interruptions?

Thanks,
Ivo

[gonz]

Hey gonz,

Have you tried HiFace via XXHIGHEND in 24/88 and 24/176 modes using engine#4? Does it play smooth without interruptions?

Thanks,
Ivo

Hey Ivo

I haven`t got any hd music samples to test this yet ! I`ve only been playing cd quality 16bit/44Khz ! My settings are 32 bits and KS special mode in engine#4 and this works flawlessly ! I`ve fooled around with all the settings that are available in the DEMO version og XXH ! Everything runs smoothly
untill now 


Earlier before I converted to WIN 7 i had some 24bit/96Khs samples and strangely enough M2TECH dosen`t show the right values on the DAC display, it showed 48Khz  instead og 96Khz on the display of my Accu DAC ! I had a talk with Marco ,at M2TECH about this, and he assured me that the M2TECH is playing 96Khz even though it shows otherwise ! It`s a slight problem with the M2TECH ! I`m not qualified to go into this any further ,so you`ll have to contact M2TECH if you want the full technical explanation 

I the next couple of weeks me and a pal of mine are gonna do some hardcore testing soundwise !

WIN7-XXH-FIREWIRE- DAC RME FIERFACE400 16bit-24bit-32bit

WIN7-XXH-M2TECH- DAC RME FIREFACE400 16bit - 24bit -32bit

WIN7-XXH-DAC Accuphase DP-67- 16bit - 24bit

WIN7-FOOBAR-M2TECH-DAC RME FIREFACE400 - 16bit - 24 bit

The end results will be posted as soon as possible 

PS: Just to avoid any misunderstandings, this will only be our opinion of the sound quality, on our setups ! Someone might not agree with the result we come up with, and it might be the case that the result would turn out differently on other setups 

[PeterSt]

Hi Gonz,

If you tick Double you'd have 88.2 and for Quattro 176.4. I guess this is what Ivo wanted to know. You can do that in demo mode just as well.

Further, the 1.03 driver version contains a display.exe and it shows in a small display what the HiFace is receiving. Of what I saw from it this is always correct. This includes feeding it with 24 vs. 32 bits (because it can cope with both). Notice that I can check this with my driver software, similar to how the Fireface will be able to show you the input rate, as received from the HiFace output.

... Having said that ...

When the Fireface receives 176.4 input it switches to a mode with less channels (than the normally 52 or whatever available). This shows easily in the mixer screen because it gets smaller (less channels to show). But ... I don't think I saw that happening !! So I must check that !

If you are confused : The check I can do as mentioned in the first part above, is checking what the HiFace receives. So, if it says it receives 32/176.4 it actually does because I can check that with another driver. But what I realize now is that this doesn't say a thing about the ouput of the HiFace ... which can be checked easily with something like a Fireface when it's behind it. Suddenly I fear the worse ... and you may just be right on your observations, gonz.

Will let you know later today.
Peter

[gonz]

Hey gonz,

Have you tried HiFace via XXHIGHEND in 24/88 and 24/176 modes using engine#4? Does it play smooth without interruptions?

Thanks,
Ivo

Actually I have tried playing with the double ticked 24/88 and it works without any problem !

[gonz]

Further, the 1.03 driver version contains a display.exe and it shows in a small display what the HiFace is receiving.

I didn`t notice  that 

I´ll try it out as soon as i get home 

[ivo]

Hi,

Just ordered the HiFace unit and as I will be using it with laptop (I have only USB ports at its sides) found an interesting adapter exactly matching HiFace's needs!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Flexible-swivel-Angle-360-Degree-Adjustable-USB-Adapter_W0QQitemZ140367089285QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item20ae87ce85

I was wondering if this cheap stuff does not make the communication between HiFace and PC worse? But it is hell of convenient....still

Ivo

[gonz]

[
Further, the 1.03 driver version contains a display.exe and it shows in a small display what the HiFace is receiving.

Hmm can`t seem to find display.exe do you mean with the M2TecH drivers ??

[PeterSt]

Yes ...

[gonz]

Yes ...

Thanks I didn`t get this in my zip files from Marco 

[gonz]

Hi Gonz,


Further, the 1.03 driver version contains a display.exe and it shows in a small display what the HiFace is receiving. Of what I saw from it this is always correct. This includes feeding it with 24 vs. 32 bits (because it can cope with both). Notice that I can check this with my driver software, similar to how the Fireface will be able to show you the input rate, as received from the HiFace output.

This is obviously way beyond my technical insight 

I`ve installed the display but when I play KS engine#4, it shows, Hiface playing 1Khz  1244768 bits ??



What does this actually mean ????

[PeterSt]

Funny ... at first I had this exactly the same, and thought it was a useless program. Then later, when I finished with everything, I tried it again, and time after time it showed reality.

At least try it with a setting in XXHE of which you are sure it works good, like Engine#3. I mean, suppose you are loosing samples, it (that display.exe) may get confused.

Peter

[gonz]

Funny ... at first I had this exactly the same, and thought it was a useless program. Then later, when I finished with everything, I tried it again, and time after time it showed reality.

At least try it with a setting in XXHE of which you are sure it works good, like Engine#3. I mean, suppose you are loosing samples, it (that display.exe) may get confused.

Peter

Now i tried again on engine#3, at first i was the same, then I stopped playback and started again, now  it says 1Khz 2009019551 bits ?????????????????+

[PeterSt]

Maybe start display.exe during playback ?

[gonz]

Maybe start display.exe during playback ?

Done that no change !

[gonz]

Maybe start display.exe during playback ?

Tried playing win media player, same result   

[gonz]

Maybe start display.exe during playback ?

Tried playing win media player, same result   

Hmmm tricky little thing this display ! Started showing the higher value, then suddenly in the middle of the song it change to the smaller value ??

[PeterSt]

Ok, on the subject "what is the output", I don't want to panic people, so I'll just show what I see. I can't make anything of it. Maybe others can.

Note that all leads to the thinking the output is 44.1;
a. the number of channels don't decrease;
b. the low right corner shows the output sample rate (at least that's what I always thought because it's always there as at least one sample rate shown, and because the other 176.4 you see a few times don't need to be there at all -> with Firewire connection there is no such thing as a lock).
c. the program DigiCheck (coming along with the Fireface) errors on selecting the input device "illegal device" or something.

Notice though that I am totally inexperienced with SPDIF-In on the Fireface.

[gonz]

Hmmm I`ve just used my sampler program loading the a wave 16 bit 44Khz playing it through M2TECH

Then I processed the same wave with the samplers bitdepht converter to 24 bit 96Khz and played this wave through M2TECH as well ! But the dispaly showed the same values 1Khz - 2009019551 bits !

It doesn`t matter if I use XXH , WIN MEDIA PLAYER or the sampler program itself as a player, it still shows the same value no matter what !

[PeterSt]

Just wait until tomorrow. With me a took a day too. (just leave it in and leave everything on ... who knows that helps)
But once it started to show the right values, it never showed it wrongly again. Btw, I too saw too different weird high bit numbers, like you.

Anyway, strange.

[gonz]

Just wait until tomorrow. With me a took a day too. (just leave it in and leave everything on ... who knows that helps)
But once it started to show the right values, it never showed it wrongly again. Btw, I too saw too different weird high bit numbers, like you.

Anyway, strange.

Hmmm still the same problem showing 1Khz and different 10 digits numbers bits ???

I`ve mailed Marco about this awaiting his reply !

[gonz]

Could this be a problem with the drivers ?? 

These are the driver details in my system  !

C:/windows/system32/drivers/dmk.sys  ( digitally signed by MS )

C:/windows/system32/drivers/portcls.sys ( digitally signed by MS )

C:/windows/system32/DRIVERS/vadspdif.sys ( this is the 1.03 driver from M2TECH I wonder if this one is overruled by windows because it is not digitally signed by MS ?? )

Or are they all being used by the system, I`m not all into the technical stuff ?????????????

[PeterSt]

The vadspdif.sys is used allright. I received around 672 BSODs from it, before I got it working. (my fault btw, although it is the driver which doesn't comply to normal behaviour really - but no problem).

[gonz]

The vadspdif.sys is used allright. I received around 672 BSODs from it, before I got it working. (my fault btw, although it is the driver which doesn't comply to normal behaviour really - but no problem).

Are your hiface display still showing the true values ???

[PeterSt]

I didn't check today, but I'm sure it does ...

[gonz]

I didn't check today, but I'm sure it does ...

Well OK the most importent thing is still the sound quality ,but it would have been a nice feature if i worked !

[PeterSt]

Actually, I think we must look at this the other way around :
When you are *not* playing anything, it should say "Hiface S/PDIF by M2Tech". What I recall from when it was not working, is that already at not playing it mentioned that strange rate. Starting playback didn't make a difference. Now it just nicely switches from the text I just mentioned (at not playing), to the proper rate at playing.

Btw, I just checked it for XP, and there it works too.

Maybe it helps if you disconnect the SPDIF cable ?
But I wouldn't bother. It plays.

Peter

[gonz]

Actually, I think we must look at this the other way around :
When you are *not* playing anything, it should say "Hiface S/PDIF by M2Tech". What I recall from when it was not working, is that already at not playing it mentioned that strange rate. Starting playback didn't make a difference. Now it just nicely switches from the text I just mentioned (at not playing), to the proper rate at playing.

Btw, I just checked it for XP, and there it works too.

Maybe it helps if you disconnect the SPDIF cable ?
But I wouldn't bother. It plays.

Peter

When it`s not ,it says Hiface S/PDIF by M2Tech ,but as soon as I start ,it comes up with 1Khz this is always the same, but the bit value changes fron 7 - 10 digits ! When I point at the hiface display with the cursor and left click holding the button down on the mouse, it changes to 97bits or 40 bits but as soon as I release the button, it goes back to the very very high bit values ! I`ve tried reinstalling the display makes no difference :-(

Did you install the display.exe in the same folder as the M2TECH install ??

I hope to hear from M2TECH about this issue , well if not I`ll survive 

[PeterSt]

Did you install the display.exe in the same folder as the M2TECH install ??

Yes, but it really doesn't matter, because the "install" you talk about is just a folder with files. The real install (of the driver) happens when you plug in the device in one of the USB ports, and that happens somewhere else (where/what we don't *want* to know about, haha).

[gonz]

Did you install the display.exe in the same folder as the M2TECH install ??

Yes, but it really doesn't matter, because the "install" you talk about is just a folder with files. The real install (of the driver) happens when you plug in the device in one of the USB ports, and that happens somewhere else (where/what we don't *want* to know about, haha).

Well I didn`t think it would matter, but I´m just looking at all ,sometimes you make the silliest mistakes 

[ivo]

Hey gonz,

When you are using HiFace what are the lowest settings you can go with:

Special Mode=yes/no?
Device Buffer Size=?
Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4,Q5=?
DAP or QAP or normal=?

Thanks,
Ivo

[gonz]

Hey gonz,

When you are using HiFace what are the lowest settings you can go with:

Special Mode=yes/no?
Device Buffer Size=?
Q1,Q2,Q3,Q4,Q5=?
DAP or QAP or normal=?

Thanks,
Ivo

Hi Ivo


Maybe you should ask Peter about this, I assume he has been trying all options  My settings as of now are, special mode/ Device Buffer Size=1024/ Q2-5=4/ double.

I`ve tried lots of other settings and most of them works fine, but I haven`t really had the time to compare all the differences yet 

As I`ve mentioned earlier I`ll be doing some hardcore testing the next couple of weeks ,with 3 different laptops and RME FIREFACE DAC versus Accuphase DP-67 DAC . M2TECH versus FIREWIRE Connection and so on and on and on 

I`ll post the results when I`m done 

By the way, have you installed the HIFACE DISPLAY, if yes, does it show the right values ??

[PeterSt]

I used 22 (samples) and QAP on W7 as well as XP. Never tried lower. I have the hunch though, that USB allows for lower latency than PCI. This is also given by the fact I used some 12m of USB (3 extension cables) externally powered) which worked glitch-free (to my surpise). Notice though that there won't be going 22 samples per time over the cable, and the internal (driver) buffer is out of my control (especially for this proprietary HiFace driver).

Peter

[ivo]

Peter,

Have you tried HiFace with latest Adaptive mode? How low can you go with it in DAP and QAP modes?

Ivo

[PeterSt]

Haha, no, I did not. And I don't think I will. I mean, at the time I have really nothing to do anymore, I will be listening to some music. Also, there's no sense for me in this, because I don't have a decent DAC behind it.

Peter

[manisandher]

I have the hunch though, that USB allows for lower latency than PCI.

That's interesting. Why would this be, do you think?

Mani

[PeterSt]

Because of the ease I got it working, and that with 12 meters of USB ...
(so really, thus a hunch)

Peter


PS: There is one thing more here, but this may be the biggest secret of current audio playback. Somehow I like to keep it a secret, and it is totally unrelated to me. I may be the only one who knows though. And it *is* shocking ! (in the positive sense)

[manisandher]

... this may be the biggest secret of current audio playback.

And you think you can leave it like that? That we'll all just say, "OK" and get on with our lives? Come on, you've got to give us more than this (as though XX wasn't enough already).

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Mani, never mind. I just looked it up, and the secret is not so much of a secret at all (which is what should be the case). The point is though, that it seems that nobody seems to estimate the value of it properly. But that may be because I am a kind of used to make a decent DAC ...

I guess that some day someone will come up with it. At that time I will admit I knew it.

[gonz]

Mani, never mind. I just looked it up, and the secret is not so much of a secret at all (which is what should be the case). The point is though, that it seems that nobody seems to estimate the value of it properly. But that may be because I am a kind of used to make a decent DAC ...

I guess that some day someone will come up with it. At that time I will admit I knew it.

What a tease 

Hi Peter what about your hiface display is it still showing the right values ?

[PeterSt]

I kind of stopped checking it everyday, but I wouldn't know why not ...

[gonz]

I kind of stopped checking it everyday, but I wouldn't know why not ...

Ok I wonder what makes this display tick ! Sometimes when I start it up, without any other programs running ( no players) it still shows this wierd off the chart bit value ! Could it be that some programs are running in the background, without me knowing ? I`ve only got Win Media players ( comes with WIN 7) Itunes and XXhighend installed on my laptop ! Any ideas ???

Apart from this, I think the XXhighend combined with the M2TECH, are now playing MUSIC, but off course the end result depends very much on your DAC ! But still there`s  no doubt ,that XXhighend has moved the sound quality to another dimension, compared to the usual players out there ! GOOD WORK SO FAR