Hi there,

New release has been available for download two days ago. Has anyone tried out yet ?

To me, after a quick listening, no significant change in SQ.  Will look forward to playing the next release says 0.9z-5-1 when Peter will push SQ to the next level making use of multicore processing.

Will report back further.
Praphan

Hi PC,

I got the PM from Peter on your question and thought I might be able to share you some of my 2 cents experience. First let's try to understand the problem so corrective action can be derived.

Why most people think that PC is so polluted?

1. Moving part especially from all sort of fans eg. CPU fan, PSU fan, GPU fan, case fans, HDD motors, optical drive motors, etc. Moving parts can generate a fair amount of EMI pollution in PC case. There are some folks in Overclock.net who experimented EMI effect on HDD latency. They measured HDD latency when it was installed inside and outside the case by routing SATA cable around the back of the mobo tray to shield it against EMI in the case. The result was interesting. Outside was 15.4 ms and inside was 22-28 ms. Higher latency = slower access time.

2. Switching power supply : it is a basic knowlegde to all audiophiles that standard switching power supply generates large amounts of switching frequency based pollution - RFI and EMI. They have been used in certain audio power amplifiers (namely pro audio and autos), but were not taken seriously for high quality home users. They were also more expensive than passive transformer based (linear power supply) products. However hi-end reputable name like Mark Levinson has launched digital power amp using switching power supply. Check this link http://www.marklevinson.com/ProductDetails.aspx?prdid=1   I doubt if interleaved switching power supply based amp can gain trust from fellow audiophiles.

Solution :

1. You may find thread discussions on XXHE about fanless PC to eliminate both noise (audible one) and EMI/RFI noise. I use water cooling - not easy to work with especially when you want to exchange and play around with CPU or GPU. You have to be careful with the water leakage and tubing maintenance. But the beauty is that it is completely quite and with less pollution. Mine is Zalman Reserator 1  with large cooling tower. Don't buy the one that has extenal fan attached to the cooling tank (Reserator XT : http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/Product_Read.asp?idx=185) If you decide to go for water route, you have to be prepared to void your GPU warranty since you have to remove the stock heatsink and replace it with GPU block. But the effort is very rewarding.

2. Fanless can go further into PSU. Some folks in XXHE circle use fanless PSU. Some removes PSU from the case and place it outside. I know that Suteetat is hiring an audio geek to build a linear PSU for his music server- IMHO a project too ambitious to be true. Mine is a fan one -SeaSonic 850W- but will kick in only when the PC pulls more than 20% of the rated load. It uses Sanyo double ball bearing variable speed fan which is very quite too.

3. Mobo selection can be helpful. Make sure that your mobo has large heatsink on the northbridge and preferably southbridge as well since you may choose to power off all case fans. I don't think you can find aftermarket heatsink for northbridge. But you can get water block for this from Zalman. My G1 Sniper has a massive machine gun look heatsink.

4. Application of EMI/RFI shielding materials : you can build your own metal box to form a Faraday cage to your internal sound card (a means to block out external static electric fields which is in existance since 1836). I use Stillpoints ERS paper to shield my Lynx AES16 card (before I bought NOS1). Please see photo how I shield the Lynx card. ERS can be purchased online at  http://www.tweekgeek.com/_e/Stillpoints_ERS_More/product/ERS/Stillpoints_ERS_RFI_Killer.htm
If you open NOS1 case, you will find 3 compartments each separated by steel wall. These are Faraday cages. DAC compartment is in the middle of the H shape (under your initial !) and is the most important part to be shielded against noise pollution. Peter moves Juli@ card outside of the PC case just to feed it with linear power supply and to keep it away from noisy environment.
 

5. SSD to eliminate moving part. But we know that spinning disk will give a better SQ for XX. 

Is it a good idea to run PC and NOS1 in a separate circuit than your dedicated audio power supply circuit?

I don't know. I haven't test it with a critical listening materials. But I will and report back later. But theoretically speaking, you wouldn't want to run your PC and especially NOS1 in a typical home circuit which hooked up to refrigerators, washing machines or any home appliances with motors. The pollution can find their ways to "sneak into" your high-end dedicated audio circuit. And *that* will have a detrimental impact on SQ. The noise generated from a well configured music server PC is much lower than those from washing machines.

I am still running my NOS1 in a breaking in mode ie 24/7 basis. I am already half way through a month of burning in. Both of my PC and NOS1 are connected to true online UPS (placed outside my listening room) to protect against system failure and potential damage to Juli@ card inside NOS1. Please read this http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1445.msg16633;topicseen#msg16633

Hope this will help.

BTW, what is your new desktop PC configuration?

cheers!
Praphan   

Hi Gerard,

Hope you had a wonderful holiday!

I understand that you are not successful in fixing the slow sound from your new mobo. Me too. I tried disable and enable setting as much as I can without success. I also moved interface card EX 1095 from one PCIe slot to another just to try out if this can fix slow sound. The last move of interface card led to some damage to my GA 880 mobo. I remembered clearly what I did. I shut down my PC and forgot to unplug the power cord. Then I removed EX 1095 from PCIe x1 and sliced it into PCIe x8 slot. All in a sudden PC boot automatically. While in a puzzle, I switched off the PSU immediately while booting. As a result of this,  this mobo could no longer detect Juli@ card and the network adapter disappeared from the system. However, when I removed the interface card from the mobo, network adapter came back but running without stability. Network connection comes and goes randomly.

Lesson learnt : always unplugged the PSU before playing with the H/W.

Therefore I have never had a chance to fix this slow sound on GA880 since then

I am now using a newly released Gigabyte G1 Sniper mobo for gamer. I run i7 970 hex cores which will be useful for 0.9Z-5 . Before ending up with Sniper I tested some other Gigabyte mobo in which report can be found in other thread.

Slow sound is still a misery for now.

Praphan   

Hi Peter,

I wish to acknowledge and THANK you personally for your time and effort to help me. I must admit that I learnt from and enjoyed with this little project although it was exhaustive.

Anyone who is going to buy new Gigabyte mobo, please let me know. May be I can share some experience with you. If some happens to live in a country where they have a subsidiary like Thailand, you can try asking for a test first. They are very supportive.

Thanks again Peter.

Praphan   

Hi

Music files should be treated the same way as other valuable data files. Power failure is not the only cause of data loss. HDD crash, virus infection ........ You name it.

You need to back up your valuable music files.

Praphan

Hello everyone,

More report.

LAST ROUND TESTING

AM3 socket for AMD processor

The last mobo from Gigabyte I put on my test bench was 890GPA UD3H. This mobo uses more advanced chipset than my 880GA. Both has onboard integrated graphic capability. 890GPA has a better cooling heat sink than that of 880GA too.

With my 880GA mobo, I did not have any problem on interfacing with Juli@ sound card system.  But rather I faced the slowmotion sound.  But with 890GPA chipset, my test PC behaved exactly the same as mobo with 1155 socket. With the NOS1 connected to the interface card via DVI cable, after firing the PC , it hung in the BIOS stage forever without passing through to OS booting stage. Flashing the BIOS and updating all the mobo drivers did not help.

CONCLUSION

1. All the PC hardwares that I put on the test bench work fine without NOS1 in the system. No PC hardware problem in the equation.

2. NOS1 was tested by Peter before shipping. It functions perfectly with X58 chipset both on Sniper and Suteetat's music server. Only the interface card which sits in PCIe slot was brand new when shipped. Can this be a half cuprit.  It is hard to believe since there is only one SMT IC on it and I handled this with great care.

3. I assume that there is no one out there who is a NOS1 users are using P67 or H67 chipsets. This is because I am the only one who report this case. So let assume that my interface card and NOS1 is not partially malfunctioning ie working on X58 chipset but not on the new Intel chipset for 1155 socket.

4. Given no. 3 above, there is a good reason to believe that the problem is due to the firmware incompatibility. But I don't have any idea as to which one that actually cause this incompatibility. The one on Juli@ card or the one on mobo. Well the mobo design is supposed to be universal and the third party device must align with the industry standard.

5. H67 and P67 chipset both have Sata 2 data transfer issue. This goes all the way through PCI bridge as well. Intel just recently launched B3 version chipset that fixes this Sata 2 issue. Gigabyte is willing to lend me the new  B3 board for further testing but I feel exhausted with this project and wish to spend more time listening to quality sound through NOS1.

Well I will end up with G1 Sniper as it looks really cool and fast. It supports DDR3 triple channel so XX will run smoother.

I will end this project here and refocus on listening. My next project will be comparing NOS1 with Berkeley Alpha DAC.

Last but not least, i wish to thanks Philip and Chalee at Gigabyte head office for their support without which this project is not possible.  

Praphan            

Hi Peter,

To be honest , no !

But after finishing playing with all these hardware toys, I am sure I will enjoy the beauty of music I have never heard before. I ran NOS 1 on my son's outdated AMD platform, heard crystal clear sound. Bravo !

Praphan

Hi

I have a "true online" UPS. The basic topology of online UPS is the same as in a standby or line-interactive UPS. However it typically costs more, due to it having a much greater current AC-to-DC battery-charger/rectifier, and with the rectifier and inverter designed to run continuously with improved cooling systems (larger cooling fan is a must - noisy). It is also called a "double-conversion" UPS due to the rectifier directly driving the inverter, even when powered from normal AC current. The batteries are always connected to the inverter, so that no power transfer switches are necessary. The online UPS may be necessary when the power environment is "noisy" such as in industrial settings, for larger equipment loads like data centers, or when noise sensitive equipments are used like our audiophile gears.

How does this do to the sound quality when used to feed PC and NOS1 ?

1. PC supplied by online UPS and NOS1 by isolation transformers : No significant difference in sound quality. I cannot hear the difference. As PC and UPS are both noisy equipments. My UPS and PC both have cooling fans. Even though my PC is water cooled but the PSU has built in cooling fan.

2. Both PC and NOS1 are fed by online UPS => degradation in sound quality due to noise from UPS. You need to put conditioner in the chain but it is not as good as isolation transformers.

That said, there is an upside to power both PC and NOS1 by UPS. This is because it can protect against any hardware failure in case of power blackout while you are away from home. Some people used to turn on PC and NOS1 all the time to burn in the system. In case of short blackout and without UPS, PC will continue to turn off while NOS1 turn on after the power resumes. That means the Juli@ system will be on while PC is off. Peter does not recommend this. I guess it is harmful to the sound card system. If you use UPS, I suggest you hook both PC and NOS 1 on UPS. Not one of them. This is because Juli@ card should not be turned off without PC off first. This is pretty much like you pull out the PCI card from the slot while the PC is running. Correct me if I am wrong Peter.

All in all, I like to run my PC and NOS1 bare from isolation transformers and passive conditioner.

This is purely my experience.
Praphan

Hello Everyone,

FIRST ROUND OF TESTING

With the courtesy of Gigabyte RMA office in Bangkok, I have the luxury of playing around with some samples and processor. They lend me the followings:

1. X58A UD9 : this is gamer grade outdated mobo running on Intel X58 chipset with very large form factor. You need 1366 socket CPU and  big PC case.
2. G1 Sniper : newly launched at CES show this Jan. Again running under X58 chipset with fancy onboard audio and LAN processors.
3. 890 GPA UD3H : AMD chipset with onboard GPU capability
4. H67M UD2H : new 1155 socket for CPU and H67 chipset. This is a basic small form factor mobo with onboard GPU.
5. Intel i5 2400 processor
6. Intel i7 930 processor
7. RAM (to test if I have RAM issue)

FINDING

The testings were conducted under the same general hardware configuration as mentioned in my previous post. Same OS ie W7 SP1. No other SW application. All hardware drivers were reinstalled fresh after the mobo was replaced. XXHE version 0.9Z-4-1.

1366 Socket

1. G1 Sniper + i7 930 worked perfectly fine without any change in BIOS from default setting. Installation of Juli@ driver was easy. But with one trick that is with the first detection of Juli@ device after installation of the 1095 extension card in PCIe slot, you will not be able to install the driver right away even you follow Peter's manual. The system will keep on giving you an unsuccessful dialog box. What you need to do is to reboot one time. And this time the system will detect and ask for the driver location. You browse through the location where you unzip the driver and check "search through folder". After you click next then the driver will be installed. This trick  is always true for X58 chipset. I don't have experience with other mobos.

G1 Sniper is a fast mobo that supports 32 lanes, meaning both PCI-E slots can run at x16, providing a sigificantly higher threshold for the bandwidth. A dedicated audio solution and LAN network processing unit are not only designed in order to free the third PCI-E slot for an additonal card, but also to reduce the workload of the central processor in order to improve overall performance. This is definitely ideal for game freak ! Oops !

2. X58A UD9 : Cannot test as my case is for standard ATX form factor. However, it should work perfectly fine like G1 Sniper since it run on the same X58 chipset.

1155 Socket

3. H67M UD2H + i7 2600 (and i5 2400) : Failed. With NOS1 connected as earlier posted, the PC did not pass through the initial boot and hanged there forever.

4. I have no RAM issue and this problem is not related to RAM.

I will share my second test on AMD processor later.

Cheers !
Praphan

Hi Mani,

How would I describe the sound quality as a result of feeding all my audio and video equipments with a pair of isolation transformers?

1. Quieter background (audio) or darker background (video). This should be due to less noises , spike and RF in the electricity chain. I place this pair of transformers in the listening room right next to the monoblocks. So I run short aftermarket hiend AC cords from xformers to Amps. The xformers are concealed in solid copper casing which shield out any potential RF interference. Internal wiring inside the xformers are made of large guage solid silver.  All connectors are 24K gold plates even on the AC cords. This project is partly DIY.

2. Better dynamic due to quieter environment. Very low level sound in some classical material can be heard crystal clearly. So you feel a wider dynamic range. With this I have to redo my air cond system by installing silencer in the duct works to block the fan noise hence lower the AC noise level down significantly.

3. With #1 and #2 above, I feel I have a broader sound stage with the same speaker set up. May be this is subjective.

Hope this help.
Thanks
Praphan 

Hello Everyone,

It is me that Peter is helping. Peter is so helpful that we have exchanged about 50-60 emails on this subject to date. One will never find any manufacturer more thoughtful than him.

Here is the situation that I explained to Gigabyte technical support in Taiwan :

Processor : Two configurations were tested:
     AMD Phenom II x4 quad core with Gigabyte mobo 880GA UD 5H
     Intel i7 2600 with Gigabyte mobo P67A UD5
General Hardware : ATI HD5770 graphic card, 2 x HHDs, 1 x SSD, 12 GB DDR 3 dual channel RAM, 650W PSU, water cooling.
Dedicated Hardware : Juli@ studio sound card :   http://www.esi-audio.com/products/julia/      external board version built into the dedicated hiend Digital to Analogue Converter - NOS1 DAC  :   http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1560.0  External Juli@ requires an adapter card to be inserted into PCIe x1 slot in mobo. This adapter is linked with main Juli@ sound card in the DAC via standard DVI cable.
OS : W7 SP1
NOS1 DAC : Is perfectly fine. My NOS1 has been tested with at least 3 PCs flawlessly. One on very old AMD platform. Another is with Gigabyte X58 mobo and i7 950 platform.

Problems :
First configuration (AMD) : Mobo is able to detect the Juli@ sound card. Sound card driver was installed without problem. However, when running the dedicated music player XX Highend, extreme distortion with slow motion sound is encountered. Data run through the bus is way too slow. With unknown reason, I think I fried this mobo during the test. However, I later sent this mobo to Gigabyte repair center for a thorough diagnostic test. This borad is perfectly fine. No problem at all. This AMD system was configured to run dual boots for both W7 and Vista 64 bit.


Second Configuration (Intel) : DAC manufacture recommends to switch the CPU to Intel and i7 2600 is chosen due to its performance. P67A UD 5 was chosen. Finding and problem are as follows:
      1. Reinstall W7 OS and all required drivers except Juli@ driver.
      2. HD 5770 in PCIe x16 slot
      3. Juli@ adaptor in either PCIe x1 or x8 or x4 slots but DVI cable not connected to the NOS1 DAC.
4.  System boot normally and PC worked well. System did not detect sound card since only adapter is installed.
5.  When DVI cable is connected to both the adapter end and the NOS1 DAC end, system did not boot even with the DAC powered off. Note that the DVI cable is perfect and the ground loop problem is not relevant. Then boot misbehavior was that mobo run 2 second and off and then on for 2 sec and off and so on .........
6. With DVI cable connected at both end like #5 above, but this time the DAC was powered ON. The PC did not respond at all when PC power switch was pressed (even with the press on onboard power button).  The PC went like dead.
7. Flashing the BIOS with F6 did not help. Playing around with many BIOS setting by disenabling things randomly did not help. Switch back to factory default gave same results.
8. Try using another graphic card which run on the PC that works perfectly with NOS1 on P67A UD 5 mobo. Same unsuccessful result.
9. Ask Gigabyte dealer to exchange for new P67A UD 5 mobo. Swap the mobo and test again. Same result. Did not work.

Cuprit : suspect that it is a PCIe Bridge compatibility issue at the electrical level. Something like : the bridge is seen while it's powered off, but from there on it goes wrong.

Solution : Gigabyte gave me 4 other mobos on loan ranging from basic H67 chipsets to X58 hiend gamer one. I have done some test already but not all. We share my final finding shortly.

The subject we are sharing on this thread is all about feeding our audio gears with pure power juice.

Personally, I have the similar experience with Suteetat. I don't particulary like active power conditioner as it tends to put constraints on current flow. Finally, I ended up with a pair of 3KVA isolation toroidal transformers connected parallely feeding passive conditioner before going into all audio gears. All these "power treatment" gears are made in Hong Kong by an audiophile who marketed his product under the name of Isoclean. So far I am very happy with the result.

I made my dedicated star ground from three 1" dia solid copper rods each 1.8 m long wiring together by exothemic welding. Great outcome ! The solid copper rods "do" make the difference. If you want to bring your power supply purity to the next level, you might want to consider using modified MDB with gold plated and cryogenically treated circuit breakers. You can find them on the after market hiend audio suppliers. If you have 3 phase power supply to your place, great. Choose the phase that avoid  a common circuit with any electrical appliances using motors (fridge, washing machine, etc. ) to be your dedicated audio circuit.

Praphan

Thanks for resizing.

I think you should activate the screen real soon. With dark screen, the NOS1 big "blue eyes" look like pirate.

What colour is the screen when lid?

Cheers!
Praphan 

Hi Peter,

I don't usually turn on the "blue eyes" meter on McIntosh. But I did today to  monitor the sound level.

One thing that immediately strick me is NOS 1 Blue matching with the "blue eyes". Well it is not that clear in the photo, but the real thing looks really cool. I am going to slide NOS1 replacing the Alpha DAC in the photo. After I do this, your NOS1 will give a big Blue Eye effect too. Cool.