XXHighEnd - The Ultra HighEnd Audio Player
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15046  Ultimate Audio Playback / Your thoughts about the Sound Quality / Re: Burning audio CD while XX playing on: November 15, 2007, 01:12:13 pm
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Now you can start laughing. Happy

I can tell you, your timing was perfect. I read this line, and bursted of laughing.
The tense created by the introduction (I read the link, although I knew it already) perfectly came together with the crux. No jitter there !

But OK, here's my personal problem ... I believe you.
But now, how can it be ?

First of all, we can fairly assume that nobody really knows. Or better : nobody knows what's really happening in these areas of audio. On the other hand, I myself really try to pay attention to all what is happening here at my own place, as well as so called unimportant / small things people report. I all take them into account, and all together they slowly form a picture which in the end will create better audio playback.

That being said, obviously I already know from many things going on, or otherwise XXHighEnd would not be alive. But honestly, it is my feeling that this is 10% only of all there is. But mind you, this first 10% is already unknown generally, and there too you might appraciate that as being voodoo. But it really is not; it is just a matter of recognizing what's going on, and from there on proving it's true. That this still would be far from real science is another matter, but also unimportant (to me anyway).


To the subject, and 100% based on what Andrey found is true (so keep that in mind please), my idea about it would be as follows :

First of all it would be a coincidence (I say this because otherwise my explanation would not stand);
It would be a coincidence to the matter of 0.9r inducing for this, while e.g. 0.9o will not. Otoh, if different sounding versions all induce for the same sound signature on a recorded CDRom (as per the subject), my explanation would even hold better.

The two tasks of audio playback on one side and burning the CD on the other, will interact. They will, say, vibrate, resonate.
Looking at the phenomenon "resonate" you can already feel why I think it is a coincidence; something resonates at certain frequencies only.
Btw, keep in mind that both processes (playback and burning) are 100% time constraint processes. So (persistent throughout) resonating can be there indeed.

Techies/engineers will immediately say "BS", because the CD burner will work with buffers, and whatever is happening software wise, cannot influence the endpoint at the end of that buffer.
Well, that would be true for USB playback just the same. Right ? ... go have a listen ...  Happy

I cannot tell for the CD burner and how that could be influenced, but I guess if I'd want to, I could. I could by means of the very same I do it with the DAC.

Oh, it may occur to you that I don't elaborate on "resonance" (what, why etc.). no
 Happy


Where above is a "far out" explanation, I also like (better) to have this one :

For me, definitely things are going on in our brains when we hear a kind of playback we like, for the coming future;
Once we hear a playback which has something we like, from then on we automatically recognize this for the future. We can't do without that experience anymore. Example in the area of Andrey :
Each and every day I seem to recognize the "quality" of my car radio as a quality which was not there yesterday. I mean, when something better came from XXHighEnd, I tend to recognize the same in the car. Ok, my car equipment may be somewhat better than general, but actually it is just there, and I did not pay attention to it at buying it, and in fact it doesn't even interest me. I listen to it as background data, and things just occur to me ...
What would happen here, is that where I "learned" some good aspects of playback via my home system, some of those aspects can be there in the car equipment, but are recognized by the brain only when they are in the brain first ...
That the total picture keeps on being wrong in car equipment (ok, like mine) is unrelated to that. Good things only jump out when you know them.

Of course, when this would be the explanation of Andrey's experience, now all his self burned (or any) CDs sounds like 0.9r in his car, so this is just a matter of trying that out.


Quite another subject is the jitter being on the CD, with the explanation of the pits being more straight / longer etc.;
Personally I think it is dangerous to call this jitter as such. Indeed, culprits in there only unveil at playback, but then only when reading is not appropriate. It would just be errorneous reading, impeeded by wrong burning. Of course the effect would be the same as time jitter, so for that matter it would be true. Note though that there is a difference between a (44K1) clock pointing at samples and because of deviation a sample is missed or read twice, and a reader which does not read accurately, just reading plain wrong data.

Do note that wrong data in these terms is bout reading a 0 where it whould be a 1 (or the other way around) which can happen anywhere in the byte, and if this is near a most siginicant byte ... call Houston (and assuming this is not captured by CRC checks, or can't be re-read within the expected time).
Time jitter as what we speek of generally, is about missing / re-providing a SAMPLE. Btw note that IMO this can be proved by recapturing the data at the end of your SPDIF etc., and that there is no way wrong data comes from it. This means the individual bits stay as ok as they were and nobody is going to tell me that the bits get mangled inside of the (bit shift registers of the) DAC afterall.

Wrong data read from a CD therefore is a zillion times worse than missing/repeating samples in the DAC (which by itself is a zillion times worse than the DAC not being accurate in providing the proper analogue voltage, but that's another matter again).


From above follows that real jitter on a burned CD would be about repeating samples (I don't think that missing samples can occur here), of which I actually don't know whether they can happen during the process of burning. Otoh, it is 100% sure this happens at ripping, actually caused by processes not being able to keep up and therefore buffers keep on having the same data, and since burning is very similar to reading, why not (in the early days of burning you were not even allowed to touch the PC because of buffers running empty, the process not being able to cope / capture that).


All together, and no matter my first explanation above, I tend to say "Busted !".
There would be, however, not much distance to "Plausible", when all is taken into account.

What remains is that I sure do believe Andrey in what he perceived.
15047  Ultimate Audio Playback / Your questions about the PC -> DAC route / Re: Fireface400 alternatives? on: November 14, 2007, 11:21:18 pm
Hi Johan,

I honestly don't know the answer. no
I guess it's a matter of buy an trial ...


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Hey Gerner,

Do you have this one? And this is trough USB i thought that firewire was the best for XX or am i mistaking?

Personally (!!) I don't think you are mistaking, but all is a matter what works out best for your system. For example, looking at ChrisV and his glitch problems, supposed they are not there with USB, what would be better net ? So all is subjective ...

To me, the sound of the TwinDAC+ USB connected, has something like the musicions don't want to come forward ... not introdue themselves, liveless. This too is a personal opinion which is subjective to things. For example, I always found the lower frequencies better when the TwinDAC+ is USB connected.

But again, I don't know ... sorry
Peter
15048  Ultimate Audio Playback / Your questions about the PC -> DAC route / Re: Is my system up to it? on: November 14, 2007, 10:40:57 pm
Thank you Tony !
15049  Ultimate Audio Playback / Your questions about the PC -> DAC route / Re: Fireface400 alternatives? on: November 14, 2007, 03:20:40 pm
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At the moment I am using a USB unit (SPDIF out, from the Twindac)

???
15050  Ultimate Audio Playback / Your thoughts about the Sound Quality / Re: .9d---.9r on: November 14, 2007, 11:55:34 am
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...perhaps I should try Vista sommtime...

Please do Adrian. You will not be sorry. Promise !

Kind regards,
Peter
15051  Ultimate Audio Playback / Your questions about the PC -> DAC route / Re: Is my system up to it? on: November 14, 2007, 11:33:53 am
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I don't think anyone is using Home Basic so far

Or maybe someone is afterall : http://www.phasure.com/index.php?action=profile;u=136
15052  Ultimate Audio Playback / Your thoughts about the Sound Quality / Re: .9d---.9r on: November 14, 2007, 10:47:08 am
Hi Adrian !

Yeah yeah, I know, you just wanted me to remind about the W2K machine, which is since -what was it, last Christmas ?- sitting and waiting for me to try. yes. But you know, it is hard these days to want it, because Vista Engine#3 can only be better than #1 or #2, no matter it would be bit perfect W2K.

I must tell you, when I put up the latest version (0.9r) I was thinking about you and your W2K machine, and that now I check explicitly for "XP" (instead of "not Vista") for certain things, which is wrong. So if you find something in the Release Notes that does not work for you, please say so, or wait till the next version where this will be solved.

The 64MB limit for Engine#1 is an XP (W2K) limit, which is not there under Vista.

The support for 96/24 (etc. etc.) will be available for XP/W2K just the same, although I am not sure (the kernel of) Engine#2 can take that.
When that is not so indeed, we are in bad luck, because the Engine#1 left, will still have the 64MB limit, but the files will be larger ...
oops
15053  Ultimate Audio Playback / Your questions about the PC -> DAC route / Re: Is my system up to it? on: November 14, 2007, 10:32:32 am
Hi,

Quote
The computer has a 1.86GHz Pentium M 750 processor with a 2Mb cache, @533MHz. It can hold only 1Gb of 533Mhz RAM, and has a 40Gb internal hard drive, and a combo CD/DVD reader/writer. 

The processor is okay, although it would prevent you from playing with Core Appointment (and I myself am far from finished with that !).

The memory ... well, I think you knew it ... not enough. Sad
I don't think you'll ever et away with it;
Engine#1 uses the least memory, but at a downside of not being able to play 64MB+ tracks.
Engine#2 uses the most memory, which you will need when running XP (to avoid the above).
Vista needs 500MB to start with for herself. although Engine#3 would use as few as Engine#1.
So you see ... there's always a pitfall.

Quote
the monitor is a little 8" LCD.

As Gerard said; Assumed that it's 640x480 (not lower), the late versions if XX anticipate on this explicitly.

Quote
Seems as if Vista home basic (less is better I think) is all I need for audio playback, as this is a dedicated music server, am I right?

By itself, yes. But be careful though. I don't think anyone is using Home Basic so far, and since the Home Premium in addition supports multi media stuff, you never know whether they omitted certain sound stuff. Example : it could be loaded with DirectX9 (not 10) only, and that would NOT work.
Also keep in mind that there would be nobody to ask this to because the question would be really about playing sound in Exclusive Mode and there's no player out there that uses it (but XX). You could put a question on the forum whether anyone uses Home Basic with XX ?

Another thing, which for me personally would be important, is that you'd need the Business versions in order to use Remote Desktop Connection; by this means you could access the tabletop (hehe) from off somewhere else. Btw, more usual is to do this the other way around : just have a sufficiently large machine (could even be in another room), and control all by means of a small machine like your Pandora's Box by means of RDC.

Quote
With my setup, which version of your player would be the most appropriate?

None. Cry

But please consider my remark about the RDC thing. You can just keep on running XP on the Pandora, and a new machine would run Vista Business.

I hope this helps a bit !
Peter
15054  Ultimate Audio Playback / Your thoughts about the Sound Quality / Re: Using XX in XP on: November 13, 2007, 07:12:08 pm
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But again: even Vista + engine#1,2 sounds better than XP.

My own experience from day before yesterday ... true. Sounds nicely fragile ...
15055  Ultimate Audio Playback / XXHighEnd Support / Re: Click on coverart to load into playlist ? on: November 13, 2007, 12:48:35 pm
Hi Gerard,

Obviously not. Or not as such. Or not when all shouldn't go awkwardish ...

Clicking the covertart as well as the checkbox is for selecting. This is an explicit action by itself, awaitening further commands (see richtclick).

Doubleclick would be allowed (and intuitive) though.
... With which I don't say that it will be there ... teasing
15056  Ultimate Audio Playback / XXHighEnd Support / Re: Disabling Virtual Memory can cause errors on: November 13, 2007, 12:41:50 pm
Remember, you should have memory space of (around) 500MB for Vista itself, plus 3 times the filesize of the largest track you play (can be 2 times only, depending on "situations"). Two subsequent tracks at full CD length would be a no go (but who has that secret).

Note that this "rule" does not incorporate the disabling of virtual memory. It's up to you now to find the limits, or better : up to your Vista (generally you are not the boss in there).
15057  Ultimate Audio Playback / XXHighEnd Support / Re: Disabling Virtual Memory can cause errors on: November 13, 2007, 12:29:56 pm
Ah, I see. So that's the physically allocated disk space then (currently used or not). But look at the bottom of the first screenshot. It says "Currently allocated : 0".

Thanks Johan.
15058  Ultimate Audio Playback / Your thoughts about the Sound Quality / Re: Using XX in XP on: November 13, 2007, 11:56:58 am
I am glad you are happy Andrey.

Quote
Did not try it on Vista yet.

Maybe I missed it, but did you by now ?
15059  Ultimate Audio Playback / XXHighEnd Support / Re: Disabling Virtual Memory can cause errors on: November 13, 2007, 11:12:24 am
But Johan, something is not right here;

Although it would (at last) explain the "errors" you referred to in the other thread, the screen shots you have in there show virtual memory being present ("wisselbestand" = paging file) ...

Anyway, if this is what you mean, obviously you just ran out of physical memory.
15060  Ultimate Audio Playback / XXHighEnd Support / Disabling Virtual Memory can cause errors on: November 13, 2007, 09:10:04 am
Can you be more precise on "Memory error" ?
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