XXHighEnd

Hi Praphan,

I am currently running W2008 server and thinking of installing W7 with dual boot. Could you elaborate what problem you have encountered or SQ degradation you have experienced particularly with NOS1 when configured with dual boot? Which OS(es) have you tried dual booting with? In your configuration, did you dual boot from the same (physical) HDD or two different HDD?

Thanks

You must know ... Praphan is hunted by ghosts !

But I'd like to know it too.
Otoh, I think he mentioned it as a "feeling", and on that matter I think I'd like to agree. Not for SQ as such, but that things *do* influence (by my own experience).

At least it would be something new for a change ...

Yes, I know. Even temperature and humidity can all influence.  :scratching:

But some :pleasantry: scientific facts first please...

Hi George,

Just woke up and get hungry. I will come back to you after my breakfast. Stay tuned for the ghost story.

My experience is real, unique and very hard to explain scientifically. No single NOS1 owner has such an extreme issue as mine. That's why Peter and I used code name "ghost" for my situation.

So stay tuned !

Praphan
Mobo geek and ghost buster
 

I have a dual boot system and have not experienced problems--though there may be some I'm not aware of: W7 Service pack 1 for XX, 32 bit; and Vista Ultimate, 32 bit for browsing and streaming movies/music,etc.

Hi George,

My haunted machine went back to the first day when I unboxed it. I hand carried it back from Europe like a new baby. It is a long story but I will try to make it short but comprehensive so it can be used as a summary post for my haunted experience to date. Peter might want to refer to this summary for his effort to be exorcist.

DISCLAIMERS:

1.   My situation can be unique or can be generic applicable to every NOS1 owners. I have no idea now. But if anyone of you came across situation close to mine please share.

2.   Given 1 above, you should not treat my experience as generic and prevent you from exploring things and enjoying our hobby. If you like adventure, go ahead and do something wild and join the club. Make sure you document your experience well for the benefit of others in this community.

MY PROBLEM :

PC system compatibility with NOS1 which resulted in various device conflicts on PCIe  bus. Some occured on the north bridge lane and some on the south bridge lane. What actually happened are described below.

SYSTEMS PUT ON TESTING :

Not only one PC system was tested, but about 10 mobos , 4 CPUs, many HDDs, 4 GPUs, 3 PCIe interface cards, 3 PSUs, 3 OSs (W7, Vista, 2008 servers – all 64 bits), 3 sets of RAMs. I posted them on another threat. Here is the link   http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1636.msg16959#msg16959

BRIEF FINDINGS:

1.   AMD 880 and 890 chipset : After unboxing, my NOS1 was first connected to my 880 mobo. The system could detect Juli@ card right at the beginning but then something went wrong when switching interface card to other PCIe slots. Read this for further details :  http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1636.msg16626#msg16626    Since then, this PC can never detect Juli@ card anymore, not only on 880 mobo but on 890 as well. My NOS1 decided not to work with any 880 or 890 chipsets and has an ability to memorize this decision.  If DVI cable is disconnected, all tested 880 and 890 systems worked perfectly fine. But if connected, the network adapter just disappeared (LAN disable) even though NOS1 is not powered (unplugged). My network adapter run on south bridge PCIe bus. When powering up NOS1, PC did not realize sound card.

2.   Intel 1155 socket : two P67 and one H67 mobos were tested with Sandy Bridge  i7 2600 and i5 2400. This compatibility issue came right at the BIOS stage. The booting effort went on and off and on and off in a loop and never reached the OS booting stage.  Read this :  http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1636.msg16626#msg16626  Same post as 1 but under Intel heading. 

3.   Intel 1366 socket : about six X58 mobos were tested with i7 930 and i7 970. : First two tests with G1 Sniper and GA X58 UD7 (Suteetat’s music server) were successful. Note that these two systems are not configured with dual boot.   BTW, my ultimate music server used for driving NOS1 is Sniper plus i7 970. Two weeks ago, I was pondering around on how to use my music server for other applications like flight simulator and security software. So I decided to install another W7 and Vista (on another physical drive) to form a dual boot so XX will be clean on a dedicated OS.  Before installing the second OS, NOS1 was powered off.  The first run saw two W7s installed on different HDDs. It worked but quite confusing since I had no clue as to which W7 to choose from the boot screen. Then Vista was installed on top of W7 in the same partition. After powering up the NOS1, then came the device conflicts on PCIe. Depending on graphic card used, the conflict can be at north bridge lane (blank screen since graphic card is not detected), or can be south bridge PCIe lane (network adapter is gone). In any case, Juli@ card is not seen by the system. Since then my NOS1 decided again not to work with any X58 mobos. I did try changing another two new Sniper boards with freshly installed W7 on brand new HDD (all other remaining HDD disconnected). My NOS1 is very bright. It remembered Sniper and didn’t want to work with it anymore. I brought my NOS1 to Suteetat place two days ago and it behaved like a ghost this time. It refused to run on Suteetat’s same music server that I used to try successfully before.

4.   Vintage gamer PC belongs to my son : AMD Athlon 64 FX running on ASUS A8N32 mobo , 2 GB DDR2 RAM. As such I can manage to install W7 on this oldie.  For whatever reason, NOS1 loves this vintage machine like red wine. It sounds superb and it is the only one system so far that my NOS1 decided to work with.

Juli@ card has no CMOS to store firmware. What makes my NOS1 memorize its preference if it is not a ghost ?

Peter is now trying to hunt it down for me.

Praphan

Thank you, Praphan, for the detail description.

For the 1366 installs:

1. After the Vista install, do Vista co-exist with W7 under the same partition? Or Vista overwrites the existing W7 install? And how many boot options did you see after Vista install? W7-W7-Vista or W7-Vista? I am sure you must have validated the multi-boot by booting into each OS successfully, correct?
2. You had two W7 installs (dual-boot) before Vista install. Did you have Juli@ driver installed on both W7s (meaning you can connect to NOS1 and play XXHE)?
3. Prior to the Vista install, did Juli@ driver already exist on that partition?

Thanks
George

1. Of course, for my dual boot configuration, both OSs were not only go into different partition but different physical drive. W7 on spinning disk and another W7 or Vista on SSD. When Vista was installled, I overwrote it on second W7 on SSD. After this , I saw W7-Vista. Yes the multi-boot was validated.

2. No. I did not intend to use second W7 boot for music playback. So no Juli@ driver was installed. I did not even turn on NOS1.

3. Nope as per my no 2 answer above.

Although your questions seems logical but I am afraid that it is irrelevant.
How can we describe a situation where I used brand new identical mobo, new HHD, new little PCIe interface card , new GPU and freshly installed W7 and NOS refused to see Juli@ card and created bus lane conflict? Remember my NOS still always works with vintage PC.

Seems like what I did has done some hardware change to Juli@ card permanently.

Like I said, this can only happen to me. I did not intend to discourage you from configurating a dual boot on your PC. If you feel comfortable please do it and share your experience.

thanks
Praphan

Praphan,

Although 850 Watts is a lot, but are you shure the power supply is not causing a problem?
It seems this one is the only common factor except for the NOS1...

Gerard (Happy with my Gigabytes after 3 Asus disappointments)

Gerard,

Thanks for the reminder. But if you read my post carefully, I have three PSUs on the test bench. Coincidentally, I just tested X58A UD3R with 2 PSUs (both are working well) yesterday, all other things being the same. Giving me same failure. So I am absolutely sure that it is not because of PSUs.

I cannot think of how PSU can cause PCIe bus conflict. This little EX 1xxx interface card does not suck power at all. Only one TI smt chip on it.

Thanks
Praphan

Hi Praphan,

Shall we first make clear that all is not related to SQ ? (see OP). Ok.

Next :


From your description you didn't use a new HDD at all; only a new one for this particular boot; Remember, there's a common denominator in there, and let's say it's called "BCDEdit". In there the data about your boots is maintained, and it will be on one of the existing HDDs. Also let's keep in mind this one from my own experience :

At a certain stage my NOS1 had been vanished from my Vista system as well. Tried for two hole days to recover it to no avail (driver cleaning, everything). This was a multi boot system already. After I gave up I created a next W7 boot alongside the existing ones (Vista and W7 on an SSD). This new W7 boot was on a spinning disk. Right after that the Vista boot saw my NOS1 again.

I still have no clue what had happened, and at the time I never looked in the BCDEdit data, and at this time I wouldn't know of anything that theoretically can be in there which influences. Maybe we must say that something s*cks with dual boots (related to  PCI extension), I don't know (yet) ...

Peter

Hi Peter,

Yeap, crystal clear - my problem is not related to SQ at all. I have already made a very clear statement of problem above.

You are right that I did not use a brand new HDD right out of the box for testing. I recently googled extensively trying  to understand the impact of dual boot configuration on PCIe bus. I cannot find something relevant but came across BCD (Boot Configuration Data) on Vista too. I did not pay much attention to this subject but understand that some ‘boot data’ still implanted on HDD even if the drive is reformatted.

However, yesterday I actually test one of the three Snipers with 2TB Green Cavier back up drive that only contains music files. I have never used this HDD inside the PC. It is just a back up drive, no OS ever been installed on this drive. I just use only this drive for testing by installing Server 2008 on it. No previous HDD was hooked to the system.  In vain, doesn’t work. Same PCIe conflict. Black screen – graphic card disable when PC connected to NOS1.  Can I consider this Green Cavier as new HDD ?

Do you suggest that I buy a brand new HDD and test it again ? 

I am not quite sure I understand your solution below. 

After I gave up I created a next W7 boot alongside the existing ones (Vista and W7 on an SSD). This new W7 boot was on a spinning disk. Right after that the Vista boot saw my NOS1 again.

From the above I understand that before NOS1 vanished, you had dual boot (Vista and W7) set up on your SSD ? Then one day your PC just did not see Juli@ card.

1.   What did you do before Juli@ vanished?
2.   To fix it, you install another W7 on spinning disk while you leave SSD containing Vista and W7 in the system too. So you had triple boots. And things just resolved ! :scratching:

In my case, the situation is more complicated since I reformatted my SSD which contained Vista (the one I installed before the problem arose). However, my original W7 on spinning disk is still there. What should I do on my case?

Ops ! :oops: sorry, you are still on your vacation. If this consumes your time, I can wait until you arrive back in Holland.

Thanks
Praphan

Sorry to break in but perhaps (if nothing important is on this PC to keep) you should make a fully new install on the desired disc and format it before installing the OS? No dual boot, no other discs holding any OS but also NO Juli@ card plugged into the MB at the moment and you should be fine...

When the OS is working as it should then plugin the juli@ card and install the drivers.

I have had several issues with changing drives and dual boots and this worked for me without trying to figure out why it doesn't work...

Just start fresh (if you did not try this before) and the ghost will hopefully be crossed over.

Bert

I have done so many fresh install even dual boot without any problems. The last install is alway's on the top. I have to say that i did that on different HD/SSD.

(For what it is worth)

 :)

Thanks Bert for the suggestion.

I am sure I reformatted (long one not a quick format) the partition before installing OS fresh. But I am not quite sure if I took out the Juli@ interface card.

When you format the drive before installing OS, how do you format it ? Use the format facility during the installation process at the stage where you are asked for the partition to which the OS is going to. Or use the long format in the disk management ?

May be I have to buy  another brand new HDD tomorrow and try it out. Hope the ghost will be gone !

Thanks again.
Praphan

Thanks for sharing. I am still scratching my head. Where are those ghosts on my machines ? Dual boot can be one but mine may be more.
May be it is in NOS1 ? Dunno !
Glad that you have none  :smile:

I alway's use the format option before install OS. And take out the card.

 :)

A quick format during the installation process will do but before you'll have to delete ALL partitions first (also the small W7 one to be sure).


I do not think that this will help except it will be a whole new one never used before so nothing to remove from it...  ;)

Don't forget any other HDD's within the system with boot sector on them (should not be there either) before you install the OS newly. Just to be sure...

And take out the juli@ card!

Thank you all for your valuable input and insights.


DiskPart, comes standard with Vista and W7, is a very useful tool to perform the above task and beyond.



Bert,

Great advise! To reduce the variables, I will also try to disconnect all HDD and, of course, the Juli@ card. So I will install the additional OS (on a clean HDD without any partition) as if I am installing a brand new machine with nothing on it, right?

It has all been said by now I think, but now Bert speaks of it ... IIRC he too had a pobleem which wouldn't go away with just "another boot" being there somewhere (this was not NOS1 related).

So Praphan, what I/we mean, is not especially about a brand new disk or anything, but to take out the disk where the BCD stuff is on (which will be the disk you ever in the past put a first boot on).

Btw, I (personally) am not saying *at all* that it will help, but I do say that things aree going on there beyond our knowledge, so far.

Also, always keep in mind that there's a difference between the Juli@ not being seen and the PCI Bridge not being seen (the latter shown by many PCI Bridge devices). Keep in mind too that there's a clear difference between the not yet installed PCI Bridge drivers (always after a fresh boot), and once that already happened. This by itself creates the most vagueness IMO, because even after all has been installed, a next boot could just fail on it only because it is there.

But I really think you should stop this "non-sense" and wait for a solution from my side (I'll be back next week). Please use that "vintage" PC for now !

Regards,
Peter

Hi George,

Don't make yourself mad with this all. I mean, Praphan's problem *is* unique ...  :) :)
(never mind I had a kind of similar thing, but I really tried hundreds of "versions" of the NOS1, including yours :yes:).

Peter

Hi Peter,

I don't mean to make you anxious towards the end of your relaxing vacation. :innocent:  Hope it is still relaxing for you. And enjoy the rest of your vacation.  :yes:

George

Ok ok. Alright! Fully aligned with you that my problem is really a unique one given the fact that some other NOS1 users have dual boots configuration without problem.

I will wait for your suggestion rather than wasting more time and money going into random direction. 

For others, thanks so much for your suggestions trying to help me. Peter and I will post the solution once the ghost is hunted down.

Thanks again
Praphan

For a number of years now I have been using a product called VistaBootPro to manage my dual boot machines. It works extremely well, allowing easy manipulation of the BCD file.

http://www.softpedia.com/developer/PROnetworks-35744.html

edit: here's an alternate link ...

http://en.kioskea.net/download/download-126-vista-boot-pro

There is also another ongoing "product" which is invaluable to those dabbling with building PC's called Hirens Boot CD. It is a collection of various tools all combined on a single bootable CD with a menu structure.

http://www.hiren.info/pages/bootcd

Caution is advised when using some of the system/disk tools though. If you are unsure of the ramifications in choosing some of the options available in particular tools it is best to avoid them. All in all though, it's a great collection of "geek" tools :)

Cheers,

Russ

Thanks a lot, Russ. I have bookmarked those for future use. Per