XXHighEnd

Ultimate Audio Playback => Cables (Community induced) => Topic started by: manisandher on September 25, 2020, 12:57:56 pm



Title: Lush^3
Post by: manisandher on September 25, 2020, 12:57:56 pm
I've ordered my Lush^3 (which I only heard about a couple of hours ago!).

The sound I'm getting right now is absolutely the best I've ever achieved, so I'll give the Lush^3 a good go, but if it screws things up, it'll be going back to its maker.

Will report back once it's here...

Mani.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: acg on September 25, 2020, 01:07:04 pm
sh*t Mani, after all this time I finally got my Lush^2 on Wednesday...now there is a ^3 out there??  What the!


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: manisandher on September 25, 2020, 01:14:01 pm
Anthony, when you finally get your Mach III, we'll be on the Vortex VII.

Mani.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: acg on September 26, 2020, 12:22:43 am
Probably...


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: Robert on September 26, 2020, 04:21:27 am
ACG get a Stealth Mach III before a Lush 3, while Lush 3 is another step up the Stealth Mach III is several steps up like a giant leap.

Robert


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: acg on September 26, 2020, 04:58:06 am
Hi Robert,

Peter has my order for the MachIII...just waiting on the 20/40 core cpu, if it ever becomes available in the EU.  I can get it here in Aus, it is readily available in the US, but not so much in the EU apparently.

Cheers,

Anthony

EDIT:  It was more that my new USB cable was obsolete by the time it arrived...sad when that happens...but I did sit on my hands for a long time.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on September 26, 2020, 11:46:42 am

Anthony, believe it or not, but only last Sunday I suddenly knew how to make a ^3 out of the Lush. And Monday I had my own playing ...
(by now we have so many braids and hoses and whatever stuff, that we apparently can make a new cable in one day without purchasing anything)

I am not sure whether it is known somewhere that we were asked to make a Lush^3 because we also provided an ET^3 and thus "^3" would be possible. This was maybe 10 months ago. But since the Lush(^2) has a different topology than the Ethernet cables (BTW, you have an ET^3 :-) a similar build-up as how the ET^3 is built up, leaks from shield to shield. Yea, you won't believe such a thing, but it just is so. Thus :

Envision that you have a certain length of material. It could be a paper. On both sides of that paper you have a metal plate. And now the plates are connected (I forgot the resistance, but say 100K Ohm).

This connection is sparkle like. Thus, the measured resistance is not even stable, BUT the USB protocol can't bear it. It is real electrical influence on or the data or the impedance (that now going off the USB2 standard too much).

When we made a second Lush^2 completely new, while the first was formed around an existing Lush^2 (like Lush^2 comprises of the physical Lush^1) and both did not work, I had the magnificent idea to measure the resistance between two shields those NOT being connected. Et voilá.

You really won't believe this stuff, unless you experienced it with your own hands and eyes.
Cables already were a mystery, but it is far worse than we could imagine.

In the end this is to our benefit, because we must be able to utilize it now we know it.


Mani and Anthony, for fun, take your Blaxius^2 (Anthony may have it still in the box), disconnect all the (B, W, Y, R) wires at both ends and measure IIRC between Y and R. You will see resistance ... (and not an infinite one :-).
If you don't see anything I forgot at which cable this emerges without us knowing at first. So, assumed it is indeed the Blaxius^2 ...

I use the Blaxius^2 myself since the day it exists. When we later found out about this (which is not a shortcut to the signal of any kind), I thought "oh well, if it gets its good sound from that phenomenon, we're good". Haha.
So with that analogue cable, the shields even actively interact. Of course, when you'd connect those two shields per the provided connector, the interactivity vanishes (resistance of ~0 Ohms).
So now you know. Leaving out the connection between Y and R will imply a specialty.
... I just looked at my own, and I have not connected the Y. So we must be subject to special voodoo indeed.


If you now can imagine that a USB cable *will* produce only errors (like 20K errors per second) when the topology regarding this nuisance is off, you may start to be able to see what this "shielding" phenomenon may do all more.
Apparently the lot can behave like a capacitor or something like that, and transfer current by "such" means.
Oh ?
Well, then maybe it is time to investigate similar between signal and ground wires in one cable. I mean, I should (now) be able to create such leakage between signal and ground.
Eh ...

I suppose that when we measure capacitance of a cable, we already measure similar. But this is capacitance. In this case the "wires" (shields) are connected. But are they really ? can the multi meter possibly be fooled ?
(I recall we tried two meters, because at first I could not believe it)
Anyway thinking further, it could be so that the capacitance of the cable changes severely and that therefore that Lush^3 trial did not work.

To be sure you got the right idea of this :
What happened was that a perfectly working Lush^2 was wrapped with another shield and extra outer sleeve, and that did not work at all.
Build up one from the ground with basically the same materials but with different isolation than the "yellow" outer sleeve as we know it - same problem.
Because this isolation material was so different, there is IMO no way that "sparkles" come through (and that even without electricity). But some severe (magnetic ?) field is formed by that topology.
(btw I could have measured such field, but at the time I did not think of that)

Anything else ?
:)
Peter



Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on September 26, 2020, 12:18:20 pm

Practicing some text for explanations of the sound ...

(for a teaser, please look here (https://stordiau.com/products/lush-3-usb-audio-cable?variant=33050760773741))

The difference between the Lush and the Lush^2 are most certainly there, and the differences between the various configurations of the Lush^2 are even more certainly there (none sounds the same).
But now the Lush^3-e ...

We already knew from the Lush^2 that what actually happens is that frequency ranges get amplified or attenuated (this can be more than one range, depending on the configuration). It doesn't work like an equalizer because the effect is xxx times more strong and always remains a natural effect (that I personally could tell).

With the Lush^3, for what I have listened to so far (which is 3 configs only) the emphasis seems to have shifted downwards a lot. I mean, there is less emphasis on the highs (somehow now they can't disturb you either, as it seems) and there is a lot of energy now at the bottom. But also right above that (say low mid) and it makes the sound much more robust. Firm.
I say this, because I am tempted to because of a more lacking, dunno, mid range of some time. But this is hard to explain. I mean, voices are crazily emphasized (very good), there is an unprecedented speed which is mainly lower frequency impeded (on/off sounds like voices can have it, but synths too), bells are so so beautifully rendered now just because of spades more of resolution, but
But somehow, with those 3 configs I tried so far, the area of the snare drum is underwhelmed. Btw, it is also the only flaw I currently see (for 3 out of 1023 configs - :oops:) but this could be already because I so explicitly "observe".
All, really all jumps out, but the snare stays behind.

If you'd observe this yourself, you
a. will not accept that a USB cable can imply these huge (I have no other word) changes;
b. you should know that internally there is still the original Lush^1.

On a side note I am not able to explain how this can be so DAC-Output(!!)-frequency-related. Thus what the heck actually happens in that USB stream.

Previously (Lush^2) this was just a "yeah, we can influence emphasis on frequencies", but this ?
This is just too much of it. It is the Lush^2 squared (haha).

People may know my type of music, but if we keep that simpler and in the form we may all know it, it is Yello.
Well, ALL I played so far of such a genre (but worse than Yello in general) I could not recognize at all. Thus so so much can things change, only because the emphasis to frequencies is different.
Or
Because the speed hence resolution seems to be 20 fold (higher speed does a lot more than you can imagine).
Transfer this to "airy" and you will be able to see how all changes of this in the base.

Is it still a Lush cable then ?
Well, I could not name it differently because it just is in the base. So does it still sound "lush" ?

Yesterday I was trying to see through that (the direct answer should be No), but there is so enormously much going on (without getting tired of it !) that there's no space to think this over. It is one big literal feast of music, and I honestly can't care about lush sound.
More making a detour, I guess it still is because of the way more warm sound (you will be shocked about that alone). This is to be combined with the lesser emphasized highs (this could be a good thing and it most certainly is not a stuffed ear thing), but before you are able to judge for real, along comes a zzzziiinggg bell you never heard before.
Or the vibrating 500Hz+ string which you never heard vibrating. Or that so clean beautiful voice. And the deep down earth umpf without being annoying because it always sounds the same (tuning for too high level lows and it will annoy).

I recall playing Jeff Wayne - War of the Worlds yesterday. I play it once per 6 months or so. Un-re-cog-niz-able. Full with metal rattling sounds which *are* there when you watch the movie, and which you did not miss when you played it "yesterday". Huh ?
Yes. Huh.

Peter




Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on September 28, 2020, 01:48:01 pm

So ... Yesterday, after preparing 5 or 6 configurations with some "electrical thinking over", assuming that a first certainly would not be enough ...
The first really worked out. And so the first few will leave this afternoon with the most simple

A:B-R, B:

My text coming along with it, as noted yesterday :


27-09-2020
A:B-R, B:
Watch out : this one is derived from the Lush^2 of the form
A:B-Y, B:
But what I did was shifting the one but last shield in the Lush^2 (Y) to the one but last shield in the Lush^3 (R). I will immediately propose a seemingly more balanced config in the one below this one.
First impression : quiet.
Second : Spatial – ab-nor-mal !! Reality cymbals – wow.
Listened for hours to this, finding nothing wrong with it. The first Lush^3’s will ship with this !


To those who will be the first : Have fun !!!
Peter



Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: manisandher on September 29, 2020, 01:22:37 pm
My Lush^3 has arrived  :grin:. But I won't be able to take a proper listen until this evening.

(I'm still a little concerned that it'll ruin the lovely sound that I'm currently getting, but we'll see...)

Mani.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: manisandher on September 29, 2020, 04:30:51 pm
My Lush^3 is in! It was a bit of a pain installing, as its B-connector is rotated exactly 180 degrees to that of the Lush^2. So, I had the choice of twisting the cable, or simply swapping the vertical positions of the Mach III and NOS1. I went for the latter. And for now, I'm keeping the shipped configuration - A: B-R, B:

The first thing to say about the sound is that... well, it hasn't got screwed up over that with the Lush^2... :good:

Early days, and I've just rebooted the Mach III and NOS1, which often changes the sound, but so far... I'd say there is less 'digital glare' coming through, but with no loss of detail at all. In other words, everything sounds more natural.

One of my 'test tracks' is David Sylvian's "When Poets Dreamed of Angels". His voice can sound quite grating in various parts of this track, but with the Lush^3, I'm not hearing any sibilance at all. Everything sounds very natural, and yet with all the details intact.

Initial thoughts - impressed!

Mani.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on September 29, 2020, 04:44:36 pm

Ha !

Mani, FYI : The relative position of the connectors is quite random. If you'd receive two, chances are fair they will be different, when compared to each other.

Keep us posted !
Regards,
Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: manisandher on September 29, 2020, 05:02:12 pm
Thanks Peter. Would twisting it 180 degrees have been OK?

The more I listen, the more impressed I am. The sheer NATURALNESS of this thing is incredible. NOTHING grates. And yet the details are all there... moreso even. And where did the bottom octave come from? My speakers aren't meant to go that low!

All from a bloody USB cable???

Mani.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: manisandher on September 29, 2020, 05:27:30 pm
I recently changed to an SFS of 4.00, but I'm back down to 0.69. Works really well now... loads of detail without any edginess.

(Sorry for the running commentary, but I can't quite believe what I'm hearing... from an extra layer of shielding in the USB cable!!!)

Mani.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on September 29, 2020, 05:43:42 pm

Hahaha. But Mani, this is your day One. With me it all started to happen on day Two.

Quote
Would twisting it 180 degrees have been OK?

We just shipped all out today (already per your posting about it) so we can't test it really. My own is 100cm and that for sure can have it.
As soon as we have a 70cm again (the more you post happy notes the sooner that will be :wistle:) I will test it gently and ley you know.


PS: Was I right about that "robustness" ?


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on September 29, 2020, 05:49:36 pm

Quote
Sorry for the running commentary,

No no, it's big fun.
I envision 10 or so people tomorrow heavily breathing over their mailbox.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: briefremarks on September 29, 2020, 10:38:38 pm
I will now be one of those soon to be heavily breathing over my mailbox!!


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on September 30, 2020, 09:20:10 am

Haha. Ramesh, then prepare for upcoming Friday.
Meanwhile I'll try to be as confusing as possible.  :veryhappy:


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on September 30, 2020, 09:31:04 am

Because I have no other way of approaching this, I look at Lush^2 configs and what they brought. This is where the A:B-R, B: came from too. Btw, I don't recognize similarities in the sound so far, but the "technical approach" is at least something to hold on. Thus, that previously given config tells that we provide the same as a Lush^2 config, BUT that there is an imbalance between that one connected (R) shield now and one other shield to the outside of that (the G) and TWO shields underneath it (W and Y).
And so I had already lying around the next one to try :

29-09-2020
A:B-Y-R, B:
As promised, here the more balanced config. Now the two middle shields are connected at one side, but obviously surrounded by an other shield (W and G), both not connected. So do notice that with the Lush^3 there is no one middle shield any more and thus we need to work with two (Y and R).

Very first minute : Too quiet ? Not enough life ? … not sure yet …
Okay, if anything, this shows even more dynamic range than what already showed with the previous config(s). I suppose this is equivalent to “again more quiet”. I think that it could be so that because of this, the sound is even more natural than A:B-R, B: showed already.


People should not try this right away - I'd have rather that they notice the same with the transition from the previous config to this one. I mean, it is very well possible that too much adrenaline creeped into my brain to begin with.

Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 01, 2020, 04:58:11 pm
My Lush^3 is in! It was a bit of a pain installing, as its B-connector is rotated exactly 180 degrees to that of the Lush^2. So, I had the choice of twisting the cable, or simply swapping the vertical positions of the Mach III and NOS1. I went for the latter.

The relative position of the connectors is quite random. If you'd receive two, chances are fair they will be different, when compared to each other.

So I tried it on a 70cm ...
When the cable is straight, it is completely impossible to twist it. But notice that this in itself is nothing strange. E.g. a random power cord would also not bend, unless you imply a curl in it and the cable gets shorter because of that ... (a not desired situation).
Oddly enough (apart from that we never tried this at all), when the devices are on top of each other (your vertical alignment), you can 100% easily fold the cable in the other direction. The requirement : a bend of 180 degrees (which is what you would have).
It is hard to explain. But take the cable in your hands, fold it 180 degrees (with a nice harmless bend), and from there fold it backwards (move 360 degrees). Et volá.
Aha, but this is not exactly what you want because it again implies change of vertical position. Now take the connectors in your hands, your hands at 20cm distance. Now move the one hand over the other sideways. Now it works.
Small problem, in one of the two positions the cable now crosses itself. It thus requires more length now ... (undesired, unless you sufficiently know in advance what's ahead of you).

On a last note, for the Lush^2 this was way worse. And in the end nobody complains (but some times people ask(ed) how to accomplish it - and this is then only for the 40cm version, which obviously is more problematic to this regard).

Regards,
Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 05, 2020, 08:44:24 am
Oct 4, 2020
A:B-Y-R, B: W-Y & R-G
The “intelligence” in this one is that both middle W and Y, those connected to the A end, at the B end extend via Red and Green respectively, back towards A. Thus, the latter are not connected to the B end. This virtually makes the W and Y shield twice as long.

The best so far. This is now not about “how to get the last anomaly out of the way” but merely “I am shocked that this could be achieved”.
I largely played mere commercial music and it is unbelievable what’s actually in there. Voices are crystal clear and yesterday I literally said “It has become impossible not to hear what’s being sung”.
Drums now have an impact which I deem the most realistic I ever heard, and which mostly is about the more “sloppy” the tension of the skins are is than music normally expresses (remember we have a fairly large drum kit over here).
Cymbals sound nicely long and with appropriate color (I can imagine that improvement on the color is possible but then I’d be unthankfully nit-picking).
What seems to be new is how (electric) basses come forward playing their lines. I could also attest that *everything* seems to come forward with this config. And that detail … amazing.
What seems to be the key character of the Lush^3 in any configuration is the lightfootedness. This is IMO also how the impact on drums seems to be more difficult to “arrange for”. But apart from this config doing very well on this aspect now, yesterday I paid attention to this phenomenon explicitly, and it is merely so that the drums are more in the background now (and let’s be honest, in real life they also are).
The latter brings me to the level of distortion. Uhm … none ? So this is exactly how a snare always was brought forward – distortion. And obviously … there’s a pile of sh*t brought to us from a snare, when the snare is “on”. So really, this is so different now. Must be the same as the so enormously crystal-clear voices.
On a last note, I think that by now it is fair to say that the Lush^3 in general allows for “infinite” more level of playback. I did not do it, but I am pretty sure it can be done. Anyway yesterday with this configuration I was tempted, knowing that the past days with the Lush^3 I already play 6dB louder than ever before. But it can be more. … Nobody complains, it is only that already now it has become quite hard to talk to each other.
If my impression is the same upcoming evening, I suppose this will be the configuration the next ^3’s will ship with.

Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: briefremarks on October 06, 2020, 12:49:36 am
Peter,

Just to clarify so I have this configuration correct.

On A:  B connected to pin 1, with the red dot; Y to pin 2; R to pin 3; full jumper between 4 and 5; half jumper on 6; half jumper on 7.

On B: Nothing on pin 1 (red dot); W on pin 2; Y on pin 3; full jumper on 4 and 5; red on pin 6; green on pin 7.

I am not clear on the B side if W is connected to pin 1 (red dot).

A picture would be most appreciated.

The Lush^3 just arrived!!!


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: briefremarks on October 06, 2020, 02:40:30 am
Read the examples in the instruction sheet with Lush^3, and am interpreting B: W-Y & R-G to mean W on pin 1, Y on pin 2, half jumper on 3; full jumper of 4 and 5, R on 6, and G on 7.

So here goes, am going to try it this evening.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: briefremarks on October 06, 2020, 03:30:22 am
OK, looked at the instruction diagram again.

A: B on pin 1; Y on pin 2; R on pin 3; half jumper on 4; half jumper on 5; full jumper on 5 and 6

B: W on pin 1; Y on pin 2; full jumper 3 and 4; half jumper 5; R on 6; G on 7.

Hoping this is correct.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 06, 2020, 05:57:07 am
Haha. Why don't you show a photo yourself ?
(teasing a little, but I don't make photos at 6 am)

The jumpers are not related / in order for this latest config. They are only for protection (hence leave them off to avoid confusion).


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 06, 2020, 09:28:49 am
OK, looked at the instruction diagram again.

A: B on pin 1; Y on pin 2; R on pin 3; half jumper on 4; half jumper on 5; full jumper on 5 and 6

B: W on pin 1; Y on pin 2; full jumper 3 and 4; half jumper 5; R on 6; G on 7.

Hoping this is correct.

With some time and rest now ...  YES, that is correct !

Regards,
Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 06, 2020, 05:59:25 pm
A picture would be most appreciated.

I now added it to the original post about this config.
Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: John Aiello on October 07, 2020, 04:25:43 pm
Just placed my order.  Can't wait to receive it and post some impressions.  Currently using another well regarded cable.  Should be interesting to compare.   


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: briefremarks on October 07, 2020, 08:07:27 pm
Wow!!

I think the Lush^3 may be the most significant upgrade after Mach III, and G3.  Some impressions.

No distortion.  This manifests most obviously in the desire to turn up the volume.  Peter mentioned this.  I'm playing music louder, and want to play it even louder, 3dB - 6dB.  Even the slightest distortion that normally causes fatigue is gone.

Clarity.  Crystal clear.  Completely silent background.  Microdetails.  The result is extreme naturalness, especially the timbre of acoustic instruments. 

Imaging.  I know its a cliche, but we could use "pin-point" imaging to describe this.  Instruments and singers are solidly placed and stable.  Much more so that with Lush^2 where there still remained some impreciseness with where instruments are located.  I used to think this was because of listening too close to the Orelos. 

Bass.  Amazing!! The bass on the Orelos has always been incredible, but now it's really astonishingly good.  Especially the really low registers.

Percussion.  Natural. precise.  Less splashy.  More focused.  And yes, you can sense the skins on drumheads flexing.

This is just in the first day. Will update as I listen more. 

To conclude: this is a significant upgrade.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: briefremarks on October 07, 2020, 10:23:59 pm
Hooray!!!

I can listen to symphonic music again without flinching when masses of strings and trombones start going.

Going to do more listening.  The difference in playback of symphonic music is dramatic.

Ramesh


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 08, 2020, 01:08:12 pm

Haha Ramesh - Nice, very nice.

Yes, I don't have the feeling that you are mimicking my words while you (surely) describe exactly what I perceive of it myself.

By now (actually since day before yesterday) I have the very clear perception of that this is the Lush for its "analogue" behavior times 10 or so. In the beginning I was a bit afraid it could be a more digital sounding cable again (I told about it in an earlier post), but the contrary is true by far. Nothing sounds more analogue than what I perceive of it now WHILE (and this is the contradiction) there's so an enormous additional pile of detail all around. And not less highs either. But different. Eh "better" ?

Thanks a lot, Ramesh.
I hope others will take the effort of writing a bit about the Lush^3 - especially on the findings on the configurations so far.
Thanks !

Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 08, 2020, 02:12:43 pm

Maybe not unimportant : I changed my settings for the Mach III (see my signature and the ** at the changed settings).
The crucial one is the highering of the SFS from 10.19 to 20.69.

I deemed this necessary because the bass is now so "impressive" that with the lower SFS settings (and in my room) it starts to higher frequency buzz a little bit. I feel this is caused by too much energy which in itself is some kind of higher resolution workout of the PC (settings), them now let through by ... well ... a USB cable ?
Anyway, something like that.

Mani's lowering of the SFS clearly only emphasizes this mere negative behaviour. At least over here it does. But good that I tried Mani's suggestion, because otherwise I may have never tried to explicitly higher the SFS.
There could be a slight pinch of that energy left, but I only notice this when I am fairly much off-axis of the speakers.
Also see next post.

Peter

PS: But Ramesh, at least you should try this too, I think.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 08, 2020, 02:23:25 pm

There's an other effect becoming more and more clear to me as an exhibit of the LUsh^3 in general : Stereo phase works out for the better.

By now I am 100% certain that the more I listen in the middle opposed to the speakers (compared with more to the side(s)), the stronger the bass is. And not for a little bit.
At the same time, the same applies to the highs, or more spooky : the distortion on them.

In the middle all falls into place, say "infinitely" more than prior to the Lush^3; it's almost like the speed (which is clear audible if you'd ask me) takes care of phase angles of waves (from left vs right) now are less vague (thus more "straight" or robust or accurate), so a chance now exists that they meet how they should (and therewith emphasizing each other when in (good / exact) phase).
This is a totally new phenomenon for me. So ...

True, being/listening in the middle always has been a good thing for listening to music to (stereo) loudspeakers. However, for me this has never been about pinpointing of instruments (the imaging Ramesh also refers to) because this always has been all right to begin with, for me. But it is not about this at all ... it is about the waves meeting correctly at one and one place (position) only, and how that gives a sense of 6dB more bass. Or 6dB less distortion on the highs, if you want.

More strange you can't have this, for a USB cable which transports music via a protocol.
Maybe later we'll find out what's really going on ...

Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: briefremarks on October 08, 2020, 08:29:52 pm
Changed SFS to 20.69.  Also reset buffer size to 16ms.  I had it at 4ms when experiencing the USB Stream/FIFO errors.

First.  It is dangerous for me to play music during working hours--even though we are all working remotely now.  Because I am immediately drawn to the music, and need to stop working and sit down and listen. Like a magnet.  This has not happened before, where more casual listening was possible.

Second.  It is even harder to evaluate because of the same reason. The music is in the foreground.  The beauty, power, grace, transcendence of the music.  Evaluation takes some separation from the music, and once the music starts playing, it is very hard to make this separation.

I cannot believe that a USB cable can make this kind of difference.  It defies logic.  What I am experiencing is a whole new system.  Everything is different.  It is literally the experience of having acquired a new DAC and speakers.

My test has always been orchestral music, symphonies, and other complex music with many instruments playing together.  I could not listen all the way through symphonies because something was not quite right.  For the first time I can sit transfixed by the music and not start noticing something not quite right with the system.

I will listen more and try to articulate specifics.  The Lush^3 is a GIANT upgrade in SQ that I really do not quite understand.  It is not logical that a USB cable can do so much.  Makes me start to wonder about Blaxius^3. Ha Ha!


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: acg on October 09, 2020, 12:06:33 am
Peter, regarding phase, I have no idea how a USB cable can improve things, but on my system phase is very audible...afterall my speakers are an exercise in phase coherence. 

Absolute polarity is also highly audible to the extent that I find it necessary to be able to switch polarity at the preamp via the remote control...it matters.  What I am alluding to is that as your system now seems more phase coherent...not saying it was not so before, but your comments seem to indicate that something has changed...that you may also find that absolute polarity also matters and that perhaps you may need a way to be able to change it, perhaps from XXHE.

Anthony


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 09, 2020, 06:28:16 am
Hi Anthony,

IIRC this was the very very first control I made in XXHighEnd (besides mentioned Q slider, which is today's Q1).
Btw, Q1 *is* speed (because buffer size) related, so ... who knows.

haha

But it never really did something for me (with someone guiding me who was sensitive to it !). Maybe I will give it a try again !

Thanks ...
Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: briefremarks on October 09, 2020, 06:57:08 am
How is this different from the Phase Alignment setting?  I know there are all kinds of warnings about turning phase alignment on.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: acg on October 09, 2020, 07:14:47 am
How is this different from the Phase Alignment setting?  I know there are all kinds of warnings about turning phase alignment on.

Absolute Polarity is about changing phase exactly 180 degrees i.e. instead of the woofer going out to a positive voltage, it draws in.  Same as swapping the speaker leads at one end.  It is to do with whether polarity has been maintained during recording and mastering.  I find a lot of ripped cd's sound better with polarity inverted...


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: acg on October 09, 2020, 07:17:05 am
I should not be surprised that you are all over it already Peter...haha.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: briefremarks on October 09, 2020, 07:24:20 am
Anthony,

I understand what absolute polarity does.  I somehow thought that this was what the Phase alignment setting did.  What does Phase alignment then do in XXHE?  Has anyone used it?  Maybe this should be a different thread.

Ramesh


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: acg on October 09, 2020, 09:28:20 am
The way I understand thing Phase Alignment in XXHE is something from the early days that is not really used any more...was before my time.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 09, 2020, 10:20:05 am

Here's the topic about Phase Alignment (http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=4255.msg44810#msg44810).


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 09, 2020, 11:00:11 am
Hi Anthony,

What I am alluding to is that as your system now seems more phase coherent...not saying it was not so before, but your comments seem to indicate that something has changed...

Well of course - this is what I'm explicitly saying. But the how of it is beyond me, unless it can be related to "speed". And that the speed increased is overly clear.
How *that* could happen is indeed the big riddle. Make that a Quest.

By now I think two years ago, I bought the "cable analyser" (LCR) which is still brand new in its box. It could be time to unwrap it.
Still, my guts tell me that this is all not related to the USB protocol, but merely to how it works out at the DAC's end (probably even via the mains). Point is : I work with the shield and not with the data integrity or something, plus that the USB errors are zero always anyway (and e.g. a retransmission *if* it would exist (it does not) is not in order.

The only thing I might get from this myself is that the shielding (at least) as how it is now, protects the environment from what the cable itself does (emits). Thus, this should follow from the impossibility (that I can see) that the (protocol-)data is influenced by the environment.

If this makes sense at all, it should imply that people / we should focus on shielding from the outside.
(and now you ask How, right ?)

Regards,
Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: John Aiello on October 09, 2020, 03:17:01 pm
I received my Lush^3 cable yesterday.  I ordered it from Peter at 9:00am EDT on Wednesday.  I live in NJ.  The cable arrived the next day at 1:00pm EDT.  That's 28 hours from order to delivery.  That is amazing. 

So what about the cable?  After the cable arrived I installed it.  Made sure it worked and then left the system on repeat until this morning.  I sat down after breakfast to do some listening.  All I can say is wow.  The presentation of the music is now more relaxed.  There is absolutely more detail retrieval.  A couple of times my head snapped up because I was hearing inter detail I did not hear before.  Better soundstage.  Overall a better sounding system with the Lush^3 than with the previous cable which was also a highly regarded cable.  I am using the configuration from the last set of pictures that Peter posted the other day.  I don't mess around much with the various configurations.  I wait to see what the consensus likes and use those settings.  Works for me.

This was a solid purchase for me.  Now I have to sell my prior cable.  Thanks Peter. 


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 09, 2020, 05:39:13 pm

Hi Jaiello,

Hey, welcome to the club ! And your instant feedback ... so nice.

We'll keep on posting the newly found configurations !

Kind regards,
Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 10, 2020, 11:46:26 am
Oct 9, 2020
A: Y-R, B: W-Y & R-G
This emphasizes even more what the previous config attempted, because W and R are now floating, are thus not interconnected and will have their own life, still extended by R and G respectively.

Loud in the Mid (not the highs)
Highs have no color at all (but is special somehow).
Not sufficiently “interesting”.


Yes, odd. Just not "interesting". I heart this from note one. Don't ask me about the why.

PS: I thought to flag "rejected" configs red.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 10, 2020, 11:52:06 am
Oct 9, 2020
A: W-Y & R-G, B: B-Y-R
Notice that this is the “opposite” of the good sounding A:B-Y-R, B: W-Y & R-G.

Great stuff !! Sound is similar to that “opposite”, but I’d say better again. Even more I need to hold back from turning up the volume.
I’ve been walking around for 3 hours or so, all the time having this big smile on my face. I have no additional particulars on this config, except for that urge to play louder again (which I did not give in to because it is really getting too crazy loud).


The above is my first impression, possibly without paying too much attention to "particulars" because I actually have found my Walhalla already in that mentioned "opposite". Still I was happier than the I think 3 days I played with that opposite. Part of it could be that there was nothing to pay attention to, or, that too much sucking into the music was going on that no space was left to think about "sounds".

Anyway this judgment could be premature (more listening to it tonight) but meanwhile people could try this one themselves without feeling sorry to change (I'm sure).

Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: John Aiello on October 10, 2020, 02:52:30 pm
Peter I am better with pictures.  Can you please show the new favorite configuration in a picture? 


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 10, 2020, 03:17:07 pm

Done !
:thanks:


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: briefremarks on October 10, 2020, 06:10:03 pm
Listening to the Olafsson Bach album with the new configuration.  Glorious.  Not sure how to really compare this and the opposite other right now.  More after some additional listening.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: Tore on October 11, 2020, 07:53:50 pm
Peter, on the picture i think i can see A: W_Y & G-R (not R-G)

Tore


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 12, 2020, 05:01:59 am

Hello Tore,

You are of course correct, if we'd read from left to right. But since the last 3 pins are a different section of the connector, it is easier for me to start at the outside again. So I need to connect R to G in that section. Then I first use the "first pin" (which is the outermost) and connect R to that, and then the second pin and connect G to that.

Similarly you could have told that R should have been connected to pin 5 and G to pin 6 (leaving pin 7 blank).
But it is all the same ...

Another explanation would be :
This is indeed how I connect the wires (start at the outside). Now I listen to that for a day and someone asks me to make a picture of it. What shall I do ? Twist it around just for the picture with the chance it may sound different, and listen an other day first ?
:nea:
So just to be 100% sure, this is what I listen to, so I make a picture of that.

Best regards,
Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: John Aiello on October 12, 2020, 10:58:38 pm
So I have been listening to this "opposite" configuration for a few hours now.  I think the bass is definitely bigger but the excitement of the other config seems to have vanished (at least to these old ears).  I am going to stick with it for a few days but I really had to fight to not change it back after only an hour. 


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 16, 2020, 06:21:05 pm

Thank you John.

Meanwhile I have been listening to
A: B-W-G, B: B-W-G
for two days (starting Oct 9, 2020). I did not encounter any annoyances, probably less than the bespoke previous two (that one plus its opposite).

But then I was handed this one, from someone off-line :
A: W-Y-R-G, B: W-Y-R
and these were my initial remarks :

I think it is a WOW. Highs (cymbals) are the best with colors. Also a mighty interesting sound. So realistic.
Skins of drums … also a WOW. So soft, so nicely developed. So colorful.

This configuration seems to beat all for the lacking of distortion. And Yes, isn't this a new phenomenon : judging USB cables on their amount of distortion ...

The strange this is and remains that instead of being easily able to point out where the cable (a config of it) is good at, it now comes down to determining the least "distorting" config. And mind you, I think I said so from day-1. "Which config shows the least annoyance". I suppose this can be related to the enormous step forward compared to the Lush^2 and that we could be completely overwhelmed by al the novelties and this still ab-nor-mal extra detail and sounds now coming forward. I myself am just too flabbergasted to pick out what's the best, BUT I can detect small annoyances.

Can you guys please try this and give your feedback ?

Peter



Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: John Aiello on October 16, 2020, 07:18:40 pm
I am going to try this one tonight.  Can't wait.   


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: briefremarks on October 17, 2020, 12:04:06 am
Listened briefly.  Very, very good.  Better than all others before.  Will listen more tonight and over the weekend.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: Scroobius on October 17, 2020, 11:38:13 am
Hi Peter

I have been "playing" with my Lush 3 and to cut a long story short his latest config (A: W-Y-R-G, B: W-Y-R) is by far the best here. Recently I have been listening to Bowie "Nothing Has Changed" which has some great music but sadly many of the tracks are marred by poor sound quality. This config makes a significant improvement by noticeably removing a layer of hash. On other better quality recordings of chamber music strings sound great with a much more natural quality to the sound. I'll be sticking with this config until (if) something better turns up.

Cheers

Paul


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 17, 2020, 12:14:07 pm

Hi there Paul,

Yesterday, thinking of you, I played a lot of the "UK" stuff we have been talking about in the past. Elvis Costello. Ian Dury / Blockheads. Iggy Pop. The latter not British of course, but I am referring to Punk.
I suppose you already tried it ? But anyway, I somehow felt that this suddenly all should come together, and it does ! Beautiful quality, even from Lust for Life.
So it's all this native "sound", like Punk now suddenly rendered so well !

Kind regards and thanks,
Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: John Aiello on October 17, 2020, 03:07:42 pm
This configuration is the best so far.  The most balanced.

Last night I listened to Penguins by Lyle Lovett.  Check it out.  Snare pops plus horns and great bass.  This is one of my favorite test tracks. 


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on October 17, 2020, 04:00:51 pm

I'll keep that one in mind for tonight (on I Love Everybody).
Thank you John.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: John Aiello on October 17, 2020, 08:53:57 pm
Peter, play it loud!!


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: arvind on November 07, 2020, 03:24:27 pm
Hi Peter,

Just recd the Lush^3. Will post my comments after a few days of breaking in. Meanwhile just needed to know if it requires the 5v DC to be isolated as done in the Lush^2?

Best regards,

Arvind


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on November 08, 2020, 06:50:02 am

Hi Arvind,

I am not aware of any requirement to isolate the 5V for any Lush cable ?
That would not even be possible for NOS1a/G3 customers, because the Phisolator uses the 5V from USB. Of course you can isolate the 5V but then you'd have to use the U input of your NOS1a/G3.

Kind regards,
Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: arvind on November 08, 2020, 08:50:47 am
Oh! Maybe it was during the Clairixa, when the Phisolator wasn’t around.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on November 08, 2020, 10:41:35 am

Correct. The Clairixa was even officially shipped with isolative pads for those who thought that worked out for the better.
:)

The Lush cables (all versions) have been quite explicitly designed not to be bothered by 5V usage or not.

Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: briefremarks on November 09, 2020, 05:12:45 am
Arvind,

My understanding with the Phisolator is that it is the 5V in the short USB cable that needs to be isolated (but maybe not!).  In any case when I had various FIFO/USB Stream errors, I tried a different short cables with 5V isolated and it worked better for me.

Ramesh


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: arvind on November 09, 2020, 03:57:31 pm
Hi Ramesh,

As Peter pointed out 5v is needed for the phisolator, hence isolating in the Lush is out of question.

I’ve never had an issue of FIFO/USB stream errors, hence no need to isolate the short USB cable either.

Thanks for your input.

Enjoy music.

Best regards,

Arvind


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: kennycologne on November 13, 2020, 01:44:42 am
Let me introduce myself to this forum. My name is Ken Beckman and I’m 69 years old and have been an audiophile for 57 years now. In 1971 I was lucky enough to meet Bob Hovland who happened to live only a mile from me at the time. We became friends and I was able to be on an R&D listening panel for Hovland projects for the next 40 years. Alex Crespi from Uptone Audio was also on the listening panel for over 40 years.
Some of the projects were taking an attenuator and listening to different resistors and rewire with many different wires also. The development of Hovland interconnect and speaker cable, and AC cord.. Five years of R&D for the Hovland speaker which lead to the Hovland MusiCap. I owned Serial #1 of the Hovland HP100 preamp. On and on for over 40 years I was blessed to have the learning experience of all these things that designers have to consider when putting together an audiophile grade product and hearing myself first hand the many differences I experienced.
My last big system was all Hovland except a 300B push pull mono amps from Lennert Anderson Audio.
From my circuit breaker to my AC outlets was Hovland AC cord, and the wall behind speakers was filled with sand.
Fifteen years ago I got rid of it because it became like heroin to me. I just kept listening to the same music and having upgrades to my system when new and better parts became available. A total burn out.
A year ago I decided I wanted to put together a budget computer based budget system that would be listenable.
Total investment $3,000
Here’s what I ended up with:
Ice Age AC cord>Uptone LPS1.2 power supply>ghentaudio star quad DC cable>ISO Regen
Out from PC  - Uptone USB adapter> ISO REGEN> Lush 3>Denafrips Aries II with Ice Age power cord>Hovland G3 interconnect> JBL LSR-305 powered speakers with Hovland AC cords. The speakers only cost $300 a pair, less than a Lush 3 cable and they sound like a couple grand. Very neutral sound to me. The one thing this speaker has always done is let me immediately know if a change is better or worse. No going back and forth. I was getting ready to upgrade to Focal Shape 65 which would be an ideal replacement since they’re  very similar but cost $2,000 a pair. I decided to get Lush 3 instead, and upgrade speakers at a later date. I’m happy I got the Lush 3 instead for now. This system is all about cluck for the buck.
This system has totally exceeded my expectations and I’m now enjoying new music again. It’s even hard for me to digest, but this system sounds way better than the last one, for a tiny fraction of the investment.
One of the biggest improvements I’ve ever heard was upgrading from Lush 2 to Lush 3. It is not subtle, and will change your system dramatically.  In fact it will be so much different, you won’t recognize the sound of your own system. It’s equivalent to a major component upgrade. Makes it sound like a direct microphone feed in the recording booth. I thought Lush 2 was clean. It’s not. Lush 3 removes so much distortion, it’s amazing. Both macro and micro dynamics add to the musicality with instrument vinyl like overtones. Super fast and relaxing pace at the same time. Little things you didn’t even know you were there, just appear before your ears. It’s quite startling to hear so much more information.(I did not think this was possible). Wait until you hear a upright bass sound its size. Not just a plucked bass note. Listen to Sheila Jordan “You Don’t Know What Love Is” on the album Yesterdays Live in Concert. Her haunting voice with just bass accompaniment is jaw dropping. Try Larry Carlton and Robben Ford “Nm Blues” and “Cold Gold” from their Unplugged Album. The tonality of the guitars is mind blowing realistic. Another favorite of mine is hearing the separation of voices and resonater guitar work from Hans Theessink and Terry Evans on the cut “Mother Earth” from their album - Visions.
Want to enjoy some amazing drum whacks with some analog cymbals (amazing piano work included)? Try “Grandmama’s” Blues from the Cyrus Chestnut album - Earth Stories.
In fact everything I listen to blows my mind. Many songs that I’ve in my Tidal queue that were previously not sonically enjoyable to me, are now, with Lush 3. Whenever you can add more songs that bring you pleasure is a giant step in the right direction, and Lush 3 does that in spades.

EDIT: 11/16
Some where around 100 hours the Lush 3 stops showing off, and bows out of the signal and just lets the music take over with the most open, without boundaries sound I've ever heard. Sonically it's the equivalent of a several thousand dollar DAC upgrade, if not more.
Easily the BARGAIN component of the last decade.



Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: Robert on November 13, 2020, 04:18:58 am
Welcome aboard the Phasure train Ken you are not the only one over 60, so you are in good company!!!

Yes I've just gotten use to an upgrade to the Stealth Mach III which was massive with the Lush 2 and now Lush 3.

Your review has me worried now I guess I will succumb. Your music suggestions are great, sent me to find them now.

Robert


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on November 13, 2020, 11:49:59 am

Kenny, man, what a nice story that is ! I really loved reading it.
Btw, you should allow yourself to paste literally what you wrote to me by email. As great and such a good laugh !

It is like Robert told - there are more above 60 in here. Actually I'd say that by now we are *all* above 60, apart from one or two perhaps.  :old:

Maybe it deserves extra praise that you not only went for the Lush^3 instead of new speakers, but two months earlier you also went for the Lush^2.
So Kenny, thank you for the great trust.

Kind regards,
Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: kennycologne on November 13, 2020, 01:06:56 pm

Kenny, man, what a nice story that is ! I really loved reading it.
Btw, you should allow yourself to paste literally what you wrote to me by email. As great and such a good laugh !

It is like Robert told - there are more above 60 in here. Actually I'd say that by now we are *all* above 60, apart from one or two perhaps.  :old:

Maybe it deserves extra praise that you not only went for the Lush^3 instead of new speakers, but two months earlier you also went for the Lush^2.
So Kenny, thank you for the great trust.

Kind regards,
Peter


Here's that email i wrote to you.
Received Lush3 cable yesterday afternoon. To say I am blown away is an understatement.
I'm 69 years old and have been an audiophile since I was 12 and I am hearing information that I've never heard before.
Super clean and beautiful musical glowing overtones. Very organic in its presentation.
More 3D with precision soundstage with mega space around all instruments and voices.
Very fast, but relaxed at the same time. Superb musicality.

An analogy would be: Lush3 isn't about seeing thru clean glass, it's about removing it all together.

This is the most analog sounding wire I've heard. All the beautiful things I love about vinyl shine thru with this cable.

Now to the store for some diapers. I keep sh*tting in my pants.😊


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on November 13, 2020, 02:02:36 pm
Hahaha, thank you Kenny.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: kennycologne on November 13, 2020, 02:17:46 pm
Thought I would post a pic of Hovland speakers


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on November 13, 2020, 04:11:50 pm
I see Art Deco. Beautiful.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: arvind on November 14, 2020, 01:05:58 pm
Hi Peter,

No words can describe the Lush^3. It’s simply fantastic. Others have very aptly tabled their observations, I can only add to it that the decay, of every musical note, is just a little longer, giving an experience of live performance.

An addition of a shield can create such a wonder, is just mind boggling.

Congratulations Peter & thank you for creating this magical experience.

Best regards,

Arvind


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: kennycologne on November 15, 2020, 11:29:37 pm
Hi Peter,

No words can describe the Lush^3. It’s simply fantastic. Others have very aptly tabled their observations, I can only add to it that the decay, of every musical note, is just a little longer, giving an experience of live performance.

An addition of a shield can create such a wonder, is just mind boggling.

Congratulations Peter & thank you for creating this magical experience.

Best regards,

Arvind

Yes the added decay. I referred to it as overtones, but I consider them synonyms any way.


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on November 20, 2020, 12:47:39 pm

A:, B:
(nothing connected)
Btw, this is not necessarily a "best" configuration, but I personally like it very much as it shows the character of the Blumenhofer Concert X speaker (which I like for its special sound).
It comes down to a not so enormously extending highs, and as I said elsewhere, the general sound of cymbals go in the direction of hitting a closed hi-hat (or maybe just-not closed). This, while the great detail remains.

I think this is a configuration one likes, or not. I'll add to this that this should be a configuration with a character, hence which is not really neutral (to my ears).

Peter


Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: kennycologne on November 20, 2020, 05:27:34 pm
The Lush 3 increased separation made my system sound ever so slightly lefty - righty. Lost the magical singular sound. I just moved my speakers 1/2 inch closer together. MAGIC IS BACK

I think most of us have spent so much time and effort to set our speakers up correct, we just assume they're placed optimally. I have found over the years, a component change may require a speaker placement change to re-optimize. Never by much in measurement terms, but in listening terms a huge difference.

Don't be afraid to move your speakers with some component changes, you can always go back. Just my two cents.



Title: Re: Lush^3
Post by: PeterSt on November 23, 2020, 08:37:44 am

I am having a lot of fun with
A:W-G, B:W-G

Good fresh highs. Nice deep bass. And ... foot-tapping factor is present in well fashion.
This one is also nicely forceful.

Peter