Steely Dan - Gaucho

Measurements from the DVD-A:
The 2.0 mix: http://www.hifisentralen.no/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46667.0;attach=198648;image
The 5.1 mix (left/front): http://www.hifisentralen.no/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46667.0;attach=199453;image

Measurements from HD Tracks in "24/96":
http://www.hifisentralen.no/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=46667.0;attach=198729;image

As can be seen: The HD Tracks version has severe lowpass filtering above 20kHz. The DVD-A stereo layer carries the same defect.

The 5.1 layer of the DVD-A seems to be the real thing, for those who have a good suround system. Eventually you have to wait for me to break the code how to downmix succesfully with the use of Adobe Audition 3.0. (Don't hold you breath. Eventually I will be fed up of the whole album after listening to Babylon Sisters 100 times to get the right balance...). Boy, I am glad this is a hobby, not a profession.

General observation about HD Tracks: Since they only sell you the file, there is obviously no "physical" product. No plastic case, no book, no leaflet.

Consequently, the pdf cover art they give you together with the flac files is sometimes taken from the CD issue or from the SACD issue. So you shouldn't read it like the devil reads the bible...

Roy, hold your horses! It seems you are not updated on these matters...
You can get an idea about it in this thread: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t44593.html

My initial attempts have been with DVD Audio Extractor. Recently I purchased the Adobe Audition 3.0 where I can tailor the mix myself.

I think you are a little pesimistic, Roy!

It is a 2007 recording from Reference Recordings, made with some of the best equipment there is. It is recorded in 24/176.4 with the very same Pacific Microsonics Model 2 AD/DA as Mani has. For sale as:
-CD with HDCD decoding.
-24/96 download.
-It is even available as HRx, which is a pure 1:1 copy of the digital master, in 24/176.4.

LINK: http://www.russandrews.com/product-HRx:-Crown-Imperial--Dallas-Wind-Symphony-7624.htm

I will check it + Gaucho.

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Gaucho: While the 5.1 mix was done in the optimum way for DVD-A release from the mastertapes, it is rumoured that the stereo version is taken from a Red Book master. The 24/96 layer has a different EQ than my digital remaster CD, that is for sure, but I never performed any measurements/analyzes of it.

Downmixing: With the right software, you can perfectly well downmix 5.1 to 2.0. That is what the multiformat players do if the disc doesnt have separate stereo/m-ch layers.
I have done it myself. Sometimes with very good result (Dire Straits/Brothers In Arms DualDisc), sometimes with poor result (Doors/LA Woman DVD-A).
-The 5.1 layer is tempting because sometimes the tracks are remixed from better sources/closer to the mastertapes.

Of course my impressions of hi-rez is based 99% from listening on my previous DAC/interface. The NOS1 has just arrived and are still on break-in. Certainly it has transformed the SQ of 16/44 replay. But also, it should improve (relatively speaking) as much with hi-rez material.

I have about 100 hi-rez titles, and indeed there are some confusing stuff in between. Some nuggets and some stinkers. But when everything is done right, the hi-rez is clearly better.

-----------

Something else: The present "confusion" and "stinkers" are mainly related to old recordings. (including most of my favorite music, unfortunately...)
-Recordings which are managed by a music industry close to bankrupcy.
-Recordings with confusing owners rights, blocking remixing and WW distribution.
-Recordings done on corupted analoge tapes.
-Masterings ment for vinyl, not digital.
-Masterings ment for digital, but heavily compessed.
-Etc, etc.

On the other side we have "new" music, from companies like 2L:
-Smal scale companies run by enthusiasts and "perfection people".
-Modern license/ownership terms allowing digital distribution.
-Recordings done on SOTA hi-rez digital equipment.
-Quality mastering for digital.
-Etc, etc.

My point is that time is on our side. Hi-rez will come more and more. The industry will improve. So in the long run "we" will win!

Hi-rez is of course much better sounding than 16/44 Red Book, theoretically speaking. Both because of the higher resolution, and because you skip the downsampling from (usually) 96kHz mastetape to 44.1 CD sampling rate.

Unfortunately the music industry is quite sloopy. Their cost control exceeds their quality control. Which sometimes means that "somebody" at the recording company just ship the Red Book master to HD Tracks. Shame on HD Tracks for not controling EVERY title they get. The frequency spectrum and compression rate of the mastertape can easily be analyzed with software such as Audacity, which even is for free.

Example: Steely Dan Gaucho just released on HDTracks has severe cut-of at 21kHz. Don't buy it. (But the 5.1 version on DVD-A which I have, has plenty of high frequency content. I just made a downmix of it, from 5.1 to stereo, and the result is quite interesting. Although the downmix need some more tweaking, reducing the bass and increasing the vocal somewhat).

HDtracks is run by David Chesky, the owner of Chesky Records. He certainly knows the meaning of high SQ. He has got some angry e-mails lately from people like us, and I am quite sure he will improve the quality control inside HD Tracks for future releases.

From Verve, I was rather disapointed about the SQ of the Ella & Louis album on HDTracks. The Getz/Gilberto sounds very good in comparison. I didn't spectrum analyze any of them, though. Anyway there is a limit of what you can expect from those old primitive recordings. Also, I think that small jazz combo recordings from the 60s certainly benefit from vinyl playback.

Although there are exceptions: Miles Davis/Relaxin (2 track mono recording by Rudy Van Gelder from late 50s) sounds stunning in the 24/96 HD Track download. The same recording on a 180gram audiophile LP reissue sounded muted and dead on Leif's €50.000 vinyl rigg. Afterwards he pulled out an old original pressing of the same, which sounded more or less equal to the 24/96 (apart from severe surface noise and scratches).

So the rule is: THERE IS NO RULE. Too many exceptions. If you are hunting for the best version, you have to zig-zag between the formats and test each version individually.

DAY 3
The DAC has been on for 48 hours now. But don’t worry; I will not embarrass you with a listening report each day. According to Peter the NOS1 keeps on improving for a whole month. If I spend my entire glossary the first week, what to say then in the end when the real magic appears?

So, I am just popping by the forum tonight to tell an interesting observation. While having dinner I was playing the CD rip of Lucinda Williams/Essence. It was my (first) music gift to my wife when we just had met in 2001, so we have strong attachments to these songs. But today the background music kept on calling my attention more than ever. In spite of sitting completely off axis, and playback at low level, I was struck by the sheer amount of details and low level information in the music. It took my attention away from the meal. Quite mesmerizing.

ESSENCE
Baby, sweet baby, you're my drug
Come on and let me taste your stuff

Baby, sweet baby, bring me your gift
What surprise you gonna hit me with

Refrain:
I am waiting here for more
I am waiting by your door
I am waiting on your back steps
I am waiting in my car
I am waiting at this bar
I am waiting for your essence

Baby, sweet baby, whisper my name
Shoot your love into my vein

Baby, sweet baby, kiss me hard
Make me wonder who's in charge

(Repeat Chorus)

Baby, sweet baby, I wanna feel your breath
Even though you like to flirt with death

Baby, sweet baby, can't get enough
Please come find me and help me get f-----d up

(The lyrics are a fitting tribute to the NOS1 too!)

Hi Joachim!

The vinyl rig of my friend Leif (he is here on XX too) is in the ”€50.000” category, including his insane custom RIAA. Listening to selected LP’s it is capable of creating audio magic. A couple of weeks ago we played Harry Belafonte Sings The Blues, and it was simply awesome, with a kind of aliveness I never have heard from digital per today.

The late 50s Kind Of Blue is another example of such a selected album, -well known for its many great sounding versions on LP, including both old original pressings and new audiophile reissues, some even with 45rpm.

Unfortunately, the best selling jazz record in the history is the property of Sony Music. Which means that the only hi-rez transfer of it, is on SACD. For those of us not equipped with a proper SACD player, the only choices are some rather poor sounding CD transfers.
I think you are perfectly right in preferring KOB on vinyl, but you can’t extend that observation into a universal format conclusion.

The NOS1 works with all sampling frequencies between 44.1 and 352k8Hz. CDs are “bottom feed”, it is the low class medium. If you want to take the NOS1 for a test drive, you must feed it high octane fuel.

What about the Getz/Gilberto title I mentioned in above post? Do you have it on vinyl? It’s also an oldie from 1963 with vintage SQ, but never the less a very good recording for its period. The 24/96 download from HD Tracks is very good. It would be interesting if you could compare those two versions.

(There are many titles available where I think the digital version bests the vinyl, but that we can look into later on).

Everything has been cooking for 24 hours. The sound is getting more and more released from the loudspeakers, floating into the room. Maybe it is caused by a hallucinating substance in the proprietary blue paint on the NOS1 vaporizing into my listening room when the chassis gets warmed up. Or, eventually, it’s the 30 year old Dalva Port wine accompanying my late evening tapas snack. Whatever it is, Joao Gilbert is clearly transported into my living room and Stan Getz’ saxophone sounds more reedy and articulate. (Another stunning 24/96 HD Tracks download costing only $18)

Switching to regular 16/44 and modern times, Leonard Cohen/Dear Heather is another favorite. A very good recording blending Lenny’s upfront vocal with the angelic voice of Sharon Robinson and some discrete electronic rhythm beats. Through the NOS1, his vocal is less forced, less in your face, but more resolved. The effect is like switching from a dynamic to an electrostatic loudspeaker.

Shortly put, the NOS1 provides so much recorded detail, that any plans of buying a vinyl turntable are hereby dead and buried. The NOS1 takes you to places where vinyl cannot reach.

To Infinity and Beyond!

Got my NOS1 today after some bad weather DHL delay.
Opened the box and, surprise, surprise, it’s painted in blue! 

Looks like nothing else, he-he. When you manufacture a State Of The Art DAC and sell it at such a reasonable price as Peter does, I guess it allows him some personal quirkiness in choice of styling…

Cold out of the box, it sounded dark and muddy. But then I realized that my active X-over was adjusted to suit the “hot” sounding Weiss INT202 Firewire interface. After recalibration the X-O back to normal (quick, approximate settings by ear) I managed a quick listen to a $18 album download from HD Tracks in 24/96:  Jimmy Cobb - Jazz in the Key of Blue. -A superb recording of a jazz quartet, playing some relaxed mainstream standard tunes. Yep, it’s THE Jimmy Cobb. -The drummer on Kind Of Blue, now in his 80s and still having a busy recording career at Chesky Records.

It took me only a few minutes to realize that the NOS1 is something special. Even cold out of the box, it delivers the most “real” trumpet sound I have heard from a Hi-Fi system. It’s brassy without being too edgy. -Just glorious pure and "immediate" sounding. Also I quickly noticed Jimmy’s discrete kickdrum sounding more immediate, dry and distinct. The NOS1 seems to have a more pure and quick bass, than what I am used with.

I have loaded a huge playlist of 16/44 which will run silently 24/7 for the next weeks in order to speed up the burn-in time. I am really looking forward to spend more time together with the NOS1 in my system.

More detailed listening reports will follow. Stay tuned.

Merry X-mas everybody! A special x-mas indeed, with members waiting like kids for Santa Peter to hand out their most wanted present, the NOS1 DAC.

Happy listening! I'll join you as soon as DHL rings my door bell sometime next week.
 

Bravo!

 

Wow. 1000 members! That's nice!!

And something more: Often, the "Guests" outnumbers the members here at the forum. When I read a new post, I can see from the top status bar, that I share it with 4-5 fellow members + maybe 8 or 14 Guests!
-So there is a big potentional for more members in the future.

All in all, it is looking good for Peters pension fund.

If that is true, it means we did 25 pages in this thread for nothing, he-he. 
I hope/hope not it is like that...

(Although I think this topic was the key to discover the SQ improvement when playing from RAM, wasn't it?)