Well yes too (about $$$), but I did not feel I had given the NOS1 all the chances it deserved. Nothing is perfect in this world, but...

Alain

No matter what I have tried, I was unable to hear a difference with the few USB cables I tried. The Clearlink plus USB cable is different with its concept and the philosophy behind.

The only moment I felt there was a difference was with AC cables that affected the sound. It added a "halo" around women's voices for a while, before finally settling...

I don't pretend there are no differences. I can only say that for my hearing capabilities (or lack of), I can't really "feel" the difference, but I certainly do not discard what is said about them.

I remember that someone said once that a cable will exhibit differences if it is straighet or twisted !

The link Jud put in another thread (http://www.audiostream.com/content/qa-john-swenson-part-2-are-bits-just-bits) is very interesting for this matter.

Alain

Hi Peter,

Well yes, you extracted most of the essence about what I did and should have done. I was kind of "anarchic" (random) in my way of testing, so it took me ages to finally correct this problem. At one time, I even thought the NOS1 was the culprit...

From what I have seen the last 2 years, I can say this: Peter is one (if not the best) of the very few persons I know that can extrapolate situations from afar. We must always remember that doing a diagnostic through distance is not an easy thing. But Peter has so much experience and is so cunning that it's almost as if he was here, in this living room, knowing what is wrong ! And that in itself is a rare quality.

And yes, a powerbar with the earth pin removed should be handy to use, but I would advise against twisting the pin in all directions when you remove the Earth prong. I did that once and... I had a short circuit... The ground wire inside went loose and touched the hot wire... So if you decide to have such a powerbar, maybe it will not be a bad idea to replace the "head" (the 3 prong connection) with one that you can install yourself, after carefully removing that earth prong. Or at least "cut" the prong, don't twist it... 

Anyway, thanks to Peter for his patience. I can be quite insisting with all my emails about different situations.

This forum is not like any other I have been attending. There is a sense of community here, where people from all different countries are welcome. And even if my English can be confusing at times, I am doing my best to contribute, because it is the way I am, but also it is how I feel we are here for. And I certainly don't let my ego be in the way ! When I don't know, I will say "I don't'" and sometimes I can feel "ignorant", but that's ok. I don't expect others to know everything either.

That is the reason why I share this little situation. And don't forget to ask questions when unsure of yourself

Regards,

Alain

Well I haven't sold the preamp yet, but I finally found the right combination to have it all working !

Paul's help had me understand part of what a ground loop is made of. Reading a little more helped me to get a little deeper into it.

As I understand it, in gross the principle is as follow: 2 components that are not interconnected in any way should be connected to Earth when there is a mean for it (a 3 prong connection).

As soon as you connect 2 components together (interconnect that ties them together), a "triangle" can appear. It is not always bad, but it can trigger a ground loop. When this occurs, to correct this, all that is need is to remove the connection to Earth for one of the 2 components, since ground will travel between the 2 components and exit through the component still connected to Earth.

It is not automatically how it turns. Having 2 components connected together, with each of them on a different AC circuit still follows the same rules, as it normally lands on the same rail in the main electrical panel. Well that would be like this here in Canada.

But don't ask me more ! There are lots of other situations (hadware grounding inside a component), between themselves, etc... I already have forgot the path a few billion electrons have chosen to follow since I did all these attempts...

So, logically, as I understood it, if I have a PC, DAC, preamp, power amp, all connected together, BECAUSE I HAD A NOISE, this meant that I should only have one of these 5 components connected to Earth. Easy...

Not so !

That was my starting idea. Like I said, this is a gross view of a situation where there could be a ground loop.

So with this in mind, I only connected the PC to Earth and lifted all the rest.

But I forget to descrie the noise I wanted to get rid of. It was not a "hum" as we generally think of when someone says "ground loop alert !". No, it was a thin sound, some kind of frequency that maybe someone has heard when an electronic chip starts "singing" depending on the amount of current going through it. Or you could compare this to a light bulb emitting a sound when you play with a dimmer...

So, I was not sure if I was going for a ground loop or for a defective piece of hardware... Lucky me...

It took me a long time to discover how to get rid of it. Today, finally, with the help of an old integrated amplifier I have here since 1984 (NAD 3020B), I finally stopped hearing that noise. This old but faithful little amp as a 2 prong connection ?

So now I have this configuration:
- PC - to Earth
- USB cable (nothing special about it)
- NOS1 dac - Not connected to Earth (2013/09/17)
- RCA interconnects
- Preamp - Not connected to Earth (2013/09/17)
- RCA interconnects
- Power amp - Not connected to Earth

All of this is on the same AC outlet by the way ! I will eventually separate them, but at this time the need to simplify things had me doing things like this.

I know that Peter suggested to me to have the Earth lifted for the NOS1. I tried it but to no avail. What worked for someone will not necessarily work for someone else.

What are the conclusions today ? I don't know. I would not be honest to say that I understand all of it. It was a matter of "trial and error"...

For those who will eventually encounter this situation: if you have old speakers you don't mind to damage, please use them instead ! I almost blew my speakers while doing something that I thought was not dangerous.

It can help to have a few spare components. I have 3 amps here, so I was able to eliminate some components I was questionning out of the equation.

Playing with protective earth is not a subject to take lightly. It can be dangerous - for you and your equipment.

Alain

Hi Nick,

I am sitting on your shoulder If this experiment turns for the better, I will sure need a little course on soldering, but also exactly where to solder it

Alain

I have always wondered if a USB cable needed an "ideal" length to be efficient. From what I read about Peter's USB cables, it seems that it does not. On the other hand, someone told me that the Clearlink USB cable needed to be 3 feet, nothing more, nothing less. Maybe the design of that cable requires this, but some others will say that the shorter, the better - like in "the best cable is NO cable"...

Alain

Nick,

Your advice makes plenty of sense. I will wait for the results of course.

I hope you and Paul will find the bright side of the force

Regards,

Alain

Peter,

You have me salivating with the description you give about the prowess of these speakers...
To not recognize music I used to for many years is something you already brought in here with XXHE and the NOS1. To make another leap forward in quality seems out of reach for me. Something I would like to hear at least one time, but then I could easily stop caring for what I already own, that brings me tons of pleasure already...
Anyway,thanks for sharing this with us.

Alain

Hi Nick,

Wow... The description that you give about the Adnaco with the modified USB board have me very interested If I was to get it again, is that modification complicated for a non DIYer like me ?

 It is the S3B isn't it ?

Regards,

Alain

Ah... I read too fast and sometimes I don't see the end of a sentence, so my interpretation is totally wrong...

As for noise and or "ground" noise, do you feel that the Adnaco isolates something ?

For sure now that I have experienced the benefits of using a linear power supply, I would certainly not use the wall wart that comes with the S3B. But I wonder if noise that could run between the PC and the DAC could be at least reduced, if not eliminated. While I know that the data itself will be already polluted with this noise, I would expect the Adnaco to help me achieve more silence...

As for the USB board, are you talking about the 2 ports USB 3 reception box ?

Alain

Hi Nick,

Yes it was the S3B, but I returned it at the time, since I was not convinced that it was improving my SQ.

But if they have done something interesting towards SQ, it is quite possible that I would order it again.

So I am following you (but with discretion of course) and am always interested in your findings

Regards,

Alain

Congrats to you two for this solution I would never have thought about this ! But I also have to admit that I don't get it ?

While I understand that hibernation in W8 keep what is active in ram, I don't understand how this had to do with the behavior about these stops. But on the other hand, I have to add that I never got these stops. I am clueless...

Does this mean that the ramdrive is already there when the system boots ?

Regards,

Alain

Well I did try the Windows Update for "experimenting" and I strongly advise against it... Something is generating a Service error and unattended does not work (in Minimise OS that is)...

There are lots of "unknowns" in W8...

Alain

Hi Coen,

If it is not possible to have the events recorded because you are in Minimize OS, maybe you could test things while in Normal OS ? The idea is to identify what runs at boot time (or at the time this disk activity starts) to identify what is happening.

While the symptoms does not seem to reflect this, have you tried to check if your drivers were up to date with W8 for your motherboard and peripherals (added cards and stuff) ?

There is a free program called "LatencyMon" (http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon). It does not require that you go back in Normal OS mode to install and may show if a driver or a process is a source of latency problems.

Finally, I may suggest that you show a print screen of the services you have active, also the processes from the Task Manager (other print screen). I still suspect that this comes from a hidden task, but eliminating the "usual suspects" could help better point to the real culprint.

Again, I am aware that I may not be pointing in the right direction, but while Peter is a champion to diagnose situations from distance, I really am unsure of the symptoms you are experiencing... It looks more like a task at idle time, but it also seems related to booting the system.

Does it happens even while XXHE is not working ? If you wait 10-15 minutes at idle, does it behave the same ?

By the way, do you use networking ?

Regards,

Alain

Well you could swap the 2 posts