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1  Ultimate Audio Playback / Orelino / Orelo MKII Loudspeakers / Re: Optimizing Orelo Performance on: April 16, 2019, 05:53:21 am
Hi Ramesh,

I would say room treatments do help with imaging (edit: expansiveness). As Peter mentions, it's a heavy investment ($$/size/aesthetics); but worthwhile  Happy.

Kind regards
VJ
2  Ultimate Audio Playback / Orelino / Orelo MKII Loudspeakers / Re: Optimizing Orelo Performance on: April 16, 2019, 03:32:24 am
Hi guys,

Peter:
"IME this is toeing-out is crucial to the L/R bass not blending in a mush."
I believe you are right, this setup happened with some experimentation. In this position it all blended/locked in.


Ramesh:
Essentially this is a near field listening position. In fact, the FM curve selection may very well be as such. There is a 4-5 ft entrance on the side of the couch, which is continuity with stairs and hall, so there is some extra space for bass. For classical music, I would suggest moving the speakers wider (if you can), helps with imaging.
If you would like to hear the current setup, please do feel free to visit.

Best,
VJ
3  Ultimate Audio Playback / Orelino / Orelo MKII Loudspeakers / Re: Optimizing Orelo Performance on: April 15, 2019, 12:18:01 am
Hi Ramesh,

I have reached a good sweet spot for all genre of music, classical (and ambient  Wink )sound exceptionally great.  The side-wall treatments are very helpful in widening the sound stage, and reducing room noise. The bass traps in the corners behind the speakers have a component to tackle flutter echos. Bass traps behind the listening couch were to be mounted on the wall, but it works reasonably well on the ground. Not much toe in as you can see. With the right recordings one can have the illusion of music from behind the listening position as well. Considering the speakers act as point source, vertical soundstage is possible.

The horns generate a lot of energy... and acoustic treatments will do radical changes in its presentation. I.e. this is important for classical music where in there are numerous instruments, and smearing can have a domino effect.

Mine are typically all “red” for the FM curves, in the current room it works fine, I do try others every now and then, usually anything less, the spaciousness and image depth are affected.

This setup generates a soundscape that you are a part of (immersive), not just a plain figment of imagination, but as physical reality. Mostly to do with the bass, and how the system is able to let the entire harmonic structure of notes bloom into the room accurately. Bass is exceptionally clear! “Layered” square bass waves are appreciable, especially with ambient.

I have medium carpet and 9’ ceiling.

Pics can do the explanation.

Cheers, VJ
4  Ultimate Audio Playback / Orelino / Orelo MKII Loudspeakers / Re: Orelo MK-II mini review on: February 10, 2019, 08:39:45 pm
Thanks to You and the gang, I've discovered/enjoyed more music in the last year, than years before combined. Happy
5  Ultimate Audio Playback / Orelino / Orelo MKII Loudspeakers / Re: Orelo MK-II mini review on: February 10, 2019, 06:24:30 pm
 Another year has passed so quickly   Happy

 I am for the last year/s truly enjoying the Oreleo/phasure experience.

 I have had Grammy winning artists,  Recording engineers/ultra high-end speaker manufacturers, John Doe speaker manufacturers, novices all visit .... with great feedback  Wink

 Although difficult to describe I would put the musical presentation as acoustic virtual reality, the equivalent of visual virtual reality ...

 A picture speaks 1000 words, most speak about the walls disappearing, haven't heard anyone describe the floor and the ceilings are disappearing or something like this  ....


6  Ultimate Audio Playback / Orelino / Orelo MKII Loudspeakers / Re: Orelo MKII Sub-low Specs on: February 10, 2019, 05:50:09 pm
Oops ... didn't read the dates of the thread  unhappy
7  Ultimate Audio Playback / Chatter and forum related stuff / Re: New toy on: December 21, 2017, 04:50:37 am
Peter and Mani,

You guys are right  Happy Cool Cool

Very different than the 4C

Best,
VJ
8  Ultimate Audio Playback / Chatter and forum related stuff / Re: New toy on: December 20, 2017, 05:38:12 pm
 Wink
9  Ultimate Audio Playback / Your questions about the PC -> DAC route / New USB cable on: May 06, 2017, 06:33:39 pm
Exclusive look at the new USB cable build at Peter's place ..

10  Ultimate Audio Playback / Orelino / Orelo MKII Loudspeakers / Re: My "new" Orelo's on: February 03, 2017, 04:39:34 am
Nick,

Congrats!

Keep us updated with pics and your experiences  Wink

Best,
VJ
11  Ultimate Audio Playback / Orelino / Orelo MKII Loudspeakers / Re: Orelo MK-II mini review on: January 28, 2017, 10:26:38 pm
I had a good friend of mine visit for a listen ....

Few of his comments...

"VJ!!! .... these don't sound like anything before (he's visited me several times before)"

"I don't think I've ever heard sound like this from 180deg or beyond"

"You have achieved the absolute purity of sound"

"I hear no glare whatsoever"

"Vertical soundstage ... that's a fist time ... nice"

"No listening fatigue"


So well confirmed....

Next level up without question is acoustic tuning the room. Plan it with the B'ASS  Wink

Hope it helps some ...

VJ
12  Ultimate Audio Playback / Orelino / Orelo MKII Loudspeakers / Re: Orelo MK-II mini review on: January 26, 2017, 11:38:38 pm
You can promote a speaker without marginalizing your audience.

... (if this is directed to me)...

No way!

Please be a room treatment evangelist!

I've my share of room problems too. I've never being able to give left and right completely the same balance and have great stereo at the same time.

The merits of room treatments are well advertised, but you rarely encounter a room that has been "treated" for good audio (save for some voodoo patches or curtains on the wall -no wife!-). I never followed up to my plans to make a diffusor, I guess electronics are much more sexy to me.

In the end the acoustical room correctors make a lot of sense in a stereo setting where we aim for identical response. As I learned from the better part of the video speaker placement has a large influence in the sub 300Hz area. No way that is going to be the same for each speaker in a real untreated room.

regards, Coen


The low end is also what I was aiming for. No way I like room treatments... that's why I restrained from it all these years, trying all kinds of tweaks to avoid them. Yes at present it does look imposing, but luckily its a dedicated room, so not much heat from the wife  Wink

There is really nothing sexy or exciting about room treatments. These huge items are suddenly occupying space in the listening room imposing their presence...

The idea was to tame the bass (which was not too bad + 6-8 dB in the upper bass, otherwise flat to 20 Hz), and the acoustic specialist argued his way into the diffusers, and I obliged. And this is where it gets interesting .... ofcourse bass was increased without smear, but more importantly how things changed with the mids/highs. Diffusers add some critical benefit in the frequency, spectral/power and time domain. Any micro/nano inconsistencies with the mids and the highs which affect image localization, temporal resolution, group distortion, timbre recognition, flutter echoes are reduced to a point below threshold. All of a sudden the system is flying. Bugatti on a race track vs a back country road with potholes.... Happy

Therefore the proposal for the new finding is as follows:

" Reflections are fine and dandy for non-critical listening, or systems with lower SNR (I don't know the threshold) ... maybe (-)96 dB. For the extreme detail provided by the Phasure DAC, these reflections actually are very detrimental. Adding acoustic treatments --  for the first reflections will greatly decreased room associated noise, not only bass, but also mids and highs. This also allows for listening at much higher volumes before it gets too loud, or loss of musicality"

Evangelized yet?
 prankster
13  Ultimate Audio Playback / Orelino / Orelo MKII Loudspeakers / Re: Orelo MK-II mini review on: January 26, 2017, 04:11:48 pm
You can promote a speaker without marginalizing your audience.

Only thing I'm promoting (if this is directed to me), is room treatments ... Happy can't say it enough.

All it takes is a few diffusers for the first reflection. And bass traps (if needed), and maybe corner traps.

It will enhance "any present PHASURE" system well beyond expected. The SNR is so good that "the room" is the BIG limiting factor. A whole set of distortions that you thought didn't exist will disappear.

I would love for others to try it, if they haven't .....

Simple but "most" essential upgrade!

 Wink
VJ
14  Ultimate Audio Playback / Orelino / Orelo MKII Loudspeakers / Re: Orelo MK-II mini review on: January 26, 2017, 03:22:29 pm
Beolab

I've had the opportunity to hear these speakers at the pre release party here in Beverly Hills, LA (invite Only  Wink). I was quite excited about the event, considering it had what I thought ideal parameters for a acoustic transducer. The ability to integrate and manipulate listening window. Granted it was not the most ideal setup. A bit noisy from the busy Rodeo Drive, MP3 only, I did not find it special. Also a sense of DSP failure... too many transducers, the wide dispersion was disappointing (uneven power response)and the narrow mode was decent, but nothing special for the asking price or even less than half of it. The image density was poor. The SNR was as good as a decent car stereo. Again this was with the shortcoming as mentioned.

Did you get to audition it? I would be interested in your experience  Happy

Best,
VJ

*Edit* -  forgot, the above was also confirmed by a second pair of ears1, a friend who I had invited. He's heard my old set up...
15  Ultimate Audio Playback / Orelino / Orelo MKII Loudspeakers / Re: Orelo MK-II mini review on: January 25, 2017, 08:37:36 pm
Ramesh,

A few steps higher ..... Wink

So called uniform response is a unicorn.... in what domain is it? just power ... not enough ...  Happy  other variable are indeed required.

I'm putting forward the conclusion ... with what Bert/Peter have achieved .... controlling the reflections will enhance the systems performance well beyond presently possible ... wide/narrow dispersion or otherwise ...... All it requires is to incorporate room treatments  Wink

New acoustic panels and new position of the speakers now have near completely solved room interactions.

If you are visiting LA, round 2 ....  Happy



 
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