1. Yep. But in the Fireface Mixer you have to enable those outputs, similar to SPDIF you did before.

2. Yep.

Rupe,

Maybe I am (and was) not quite sure what to tell you.
But let's try to get there.


Wish ? Did you really mean to say that ? I assumed it, yes. Is this assumption wrong ?
If so, with #1 and #2 you will not get bit perfect playback with Vista.
Ok, for that matter you could say that I wish that you use #3, because your chances lay there ...
Now :


This is correct, because it is used by XXHighEnd.exe, which is the only one *you* should start. The #3 is then selected by means of the "Quality" combobox.


Merely, this is just not necessary, because it already comes with Vista. For XP it would be true better not to download/install that, but this is not your case.


Somehow I am to blame for not understanding what you actually want. I understand your question, but I have the hunch that you somewhere have a problem (like not getting #3 to run ?).

Please don't feel shy to express whatever it is you feel the need to know. But if the question is too "open", I can only have general answers.
Let's start with a question of mine : could you please list your bunch of concrete questions you probably have ? Stupid questions don't exist ...

Regards,
Peter



PS: I see now that you could be asking how to get from your PC to your DAC, while your DAC currently is being used by means of a CD player. Can I be right on this ?

It just sprang to my mind ...

I don't think I ever expressed in here (but I did on AA) that the sole thing to find out whether your playback is "bit perfect" under Vista, is whether you can shutoff or control the volume with the "Volume Mixer". If you can, you're not.
So you got that part Rupe.

I'll try  ...
Assuming your DAC doesn't contain an earphone jack It can only be a general outlay though ...

You'd be using Engine#3 since this is the most accurate playback means, I think (well, as intended fort sure).

The means of presenting the data to you DAC (not listed in your "main stream") would be around any interference of the OS and her services (why ? because XX was just created for that and, say, behaves like that or let the rest behave accordingly).

For Vista this would be kind of special anyway, because apart from ASIO there's no other means to do it than how XX does it. This is for a great deal due to the "Exclusive use" of the sound device, that going around all that normally just *will* mangle the data. This is the basis for proper playback.
That this sure is not all, should be proved by Engine#1 and Engine#2, which for Vista 100% sure just do not have this base (hence there the data *is* mangled by Vista), while it still sound wonderfully. But since all is in a context, the context of this is just  here, which not only proves how wrong things can be, but also indicates that this is not stupic commercials only.

But now ...


Just this would incur for that last mentioned situation, being about the not being able of getting the sound device exclusively, that by itself causing the SRC (sample rate converter) of Vista jumping in, no matter nothing is there to be resampled.

As far as I have found, this is related to what you mention in your signature :
which by now to me looks like some kind of hoax since the last thing it seems to be is "high definition" (well, according to MS all which is resampled is for the better of "you" the Vista user).


Rupe, I was taking a presumption on you using Engine#3 (of which I have this example of "HD Audio" on my desk which behaves the same as you just told) which doesn't seem to work ever with this "class driver" device. If you were using #1 or #2, then try #3 first before I'm screeming (okay, I already did ).

Does this help you in some way ?

This time you ask the question later than the answer. 

http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=125.0

Whether the answer is of some use is another thing.

Additionally, I found this : http://www.bd-design.nl/forum/board_entry.php?id=11592&page=0&category=all&order=last_answer&descasc=DESC#p11741

And this as a follow up : http://forum.bd-design.nl/board_entry.php?id=11766#p11772

might you need the other way around.
(and might you have a spare evening to read it )

From http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/2/21528.html :



Go to the tab as shown below and select your USB driver in there. BUT :
What you see there ("No Playback Devices") is probably what you see too. That is, if you shut everything off because of Foobar et al, that what you'll get. I did that too, but with me this is about bit perfect MME (from RME) drivers, which just don't need to show there.
The best option for you would be to enable your USB device in Device Manager, hence revert what you did to shut that off (if you did, that is). Write down what you do to revert it, so you can go back if you don't like XX afteral. I know, to get all (not !!) working in there as should is a hell by itself.


This would be true. But be careful in the mean time :
Engine#2 just will allow you to load the combined tracks, but it may take ages. There will be incurred for (intensive) swapping, and with a CD of 700MB with maybe 300MB free RAM it may take 15 minutes (depending on the situation you might get an Out of Memory error). So really nothing to go for. Better add this RAM.
Besides all, this disk I/O will influence the sound for Engine#2 (and #1 ... not #3).

HTH

Okay, I have made this sticky in this Boozing area, which might not be the most appropriate please. Otoh, I don't want to make it mandatory and also want to avoid too many sticky topics in the support board.

In the near future you might see that I'm adding things to it, which I then add just because I think it can be of importance in certain occasions. As an example, I just saw you mention your OS version (like "Premium" from Vista) so I added that too, because only yesterday this appeared to be of great importance (no formal DirextX for Managed Code support for Vista Business).

Anyway I'd like you to copy my behaviour, even if you don't see the importance of it.

I don't think it can harm if you use your signatures to show off a bit, but be careful that it's not going against you like : yeah, but you with your 100K DAC possibly hear more than I can, so we are sure not going to listen to you. Of course I try to say with some diplomacy (me ?  ) that it might work the other way around. Well, never mind, go as you like, but try to separate "showing off" from the real information we're talking about here.

That's because #3 accesses the soundcard in a very different way. Also : a NEW way, looking at driver makers. So it must be supported properly.

More technical : in the end it's not the soundard itself being "in use" for Exclusive Mode, and it still is the OS arranging for it. But it will be the driver talking back to the OS what the current status of the "soundcard environment" is.

Btw note that I tried to ask the MS people whether a signed driver would guarantee that these things are arranged for correctly, just because I already have some hunches it is not so. I never got the answer to that ... which for me is an answer -> something s*cks in that area.
I also know why (I think) -> in the RTM version of Vista, this Exclusive Mode thing officially isn't supported yet, although nobody and nothing tells so. But I know. In the end no problem because it "just" can be done. However, the driver siging program (which just *is* a program and automated process really) will not sufficiently anticipate on it. Well, that's my presumption so I must be careful. Also remember, I have a laptop HD Audio whatever signed soundchip/driver myself, which just can't do the job (won't allow Exclusive Mode at all -> yours might allow it halfly ).

Chris, do you have a special brain or so ? 
Or were you seeing me doing just that and right now ??

I was up to posting this as a question, and you were just ahead of me ???

So yes please everybody. It would really help me (or anyone) with suggestions of what could be the matter in certain cases. Besides that, if you would indeed do that before posting, it might even help yourself thinking things over (why is the format not allowed at doubling (hence 88K2) when my DAC supports actually 48K max. hehe).

Anyway, I tried to find a format (see sig) for presenting what we have. Please try to do it like that (or discuss anything better).

This is a more nasty one for figuring out what could be the matter.
The most easy for me is saying that again this is caused by your soundchip driver, but I sue won't be easy on myself (oh, I think this is the cause anyway) ...

Okay ... a bit of thinking brings me to this :


Actually this information is of the most importance, because it tells that the sound internally really is playing. For that matter : the playposition pointer with Engine#1 is getting its info (position) from the buffer itself (I implemented this with Engine#1 only, so far). So actually the solution to this could be very easy : did you perhaps choose another sounddevice than the Primary Sounddevice ?!
Note that XX remembers this from earlier sessions, and also that you should see it chosen in the combobox for it. BUT :
Don't get tricked by what you see just the same from Engine#2 and Engine#3, just because I did not bother (or did I ?) to "hard coded" tell there that the Primary Device us used really. Uhhm ... *If* I did bother indeed, it would show the Primary Device really, which then would be different from what you see displayed with Engine#1.

Now, I am just assuming that I'm right on this, and the only thing you ought to know further, is that this "other" device which would be running really internally, does not map to your SPDIF output. So, *or* choose the Primary Device for Engine#1 (that would be the first one listed under "Primary Device" really), or get the mappings right.
To make it extra clear : whatever is shown for Engine#2 and #3, the only device which *can* be used really, is the Primary Device. So remember, no matter what XX shows, and no matter what you select (but I'm fairly sure by now there's error messages for this built in).

?

Hi Johan,

To me this looks like a clear case of your Realtec ALC883 HD Audio (sound chip) driver being "out of order".
I know this has been your own assumption, and I know you already spent much time on it. But let me to explain what happens, so we maybe can solve this problem :

Note : "hanging of the sound" in this case means "the last part of the buffer sent to tha DAC keeps on repeating". tadadadadadadada 

When you say "when I activate a button", in the case that the sound starts hanging you will have used a button that just stops the Engine. This can be seen by the XXEngine3.exe which would disappear from the processes in Task Manager. For instance, using the Playlist Load button, or the Clear button will not cause this to happen (this just does not stop the sound).

When Engine#3 stops feeding the soundcard (which comes first in your SPDIF case opposed to the DAC), it disconnects from the soundcard (sound chip), and it must be released for the matter of "giving it back to the system" and freeing the Exclusive Mode which is at order here (Engine#3). Now, here it goes wrong, and the soundcard does not stop.

The sole FACT that XXEngine3.exe disappears from the process list (hence it really has gone), just *proves* that it is not any software re-feeding this (last) buffer over and over again. What would happen though, is that the soundcard keeps on cycling through its own buffer, over and over releasing the sound data. Together with the process it's still in use exclusively, and there is no way you can stop it until a next reboot, UNLESS (I think) you tell it that other sound processes can interrupt it (second checkbox (uncheck) in the Advanced tab of the Device's properties). BUT, you really shouldn't do this, because then an "you've got mail" beep, will interrupt (abort) music playing. So I'm just explaining things here.

Possibly there are two solutions :

1. Try to find an external soundcard which really is better in about all cases.
2. I could try to interrupt / end / kill / abort / whatever the soundcard when Engine# is ordered to quit.

The last option obviously is the most frienddly for you, but possibly not the best assuming that you want the best soundquality which from theory can't come from the internal sound chip. Even when it's only passing through SPDIF !!!
If - and only if we choose for this second option, it can be a longthreaded process, because it would be me trying somthing in the program, you trying whether it helped or not. For this matter, note that all what should be done to kill the soundcard's process is already in there, but I wouldn't be me to find another way. Those ways just would be, say, illegal and without real logic, and that is exactly why it might take long to get there. And, even without guarantee obviously.

At writing this, I just thought of another option (in the "illegal" area ) : you could try what happens if you remove the power from the DAC. You can try this when it's looping, and you can try it during normal playback. Possibly none of them helps, and probably when done during playback you receive the same thing : it starts to loop (but how to hear that ? switch on the DAC again, hehe).

The results from the last suggestion above migh bring me what can be done about it (for insiders : like throwing the same exception you receive at shutting of the power of the DAC, *if* that helps of course).

When you are going to try it, do not forget to post the error message you'll receive, with which I can only hope it is not "XXHighEnd does not work anymore". But if so, I can do something about *that*.

Lastly, when you have laying around another soundcard (and the cheapest might be better than the soundchip you're using now), maybe try that first as a solution. Take care -when you are going to buy a 10 euro sound card- that it comes with Vista drivers.

I really hope you can make something of this.
Peter

 
Forgot to respond in this topic : if all is as expected, this is solved per version 0.9d.

It is not difficult at all to implement this. However ...


Could you please eleborate why you think this is so ? I'm sure not saying it isn't, since I don't have the real experience. I must say though, that to me it looks like there's a lot of hurdles FOR ME to overcome, would I offer *you* the flexibility inheritantly available otherwise. Thus :

Presenting the individual tracks from a cue sheet (or file) in the Playlist area is the easiest thing to do (for me). From there selecting what to play ... also easy. Store a selection in a saved Playlist ... (due to loading it back to play) a bit more work, but still easy. But this would be your problem :

The Library button, as well as Explorer as your main source for finding albums and following from that the tracks therein ... I can't imaging how that would workout satisfactory (I mean, opposed to when you'd have stored the tracks individually as, say, normal). Coverart shouldn't be a problem btw (just store it next to the album with the album name, or when each album would be in its own folder (would it in your case ?) like usual (folder.jpg).

All in all my question is : would you really like it the best ? if so, why please ?

It might be a better idea to write this conversion program that back converts everything to "normal", which would be the most easy of all. I say this, because a brief Google tells me that possibly those programs don't exist (??). I did't spend long on this though. Anyway the back conversion would be 100% "bit save" because it's just "computer data" in there (I've seen doubts on that on the Net).
Note that I base this on what EAC makes of it (mainly the cue file), and I didn't look at others.

Peter

Hi,

Oh yes, it will.
Note that, as with all lossless formats that are going to be supported, technically there canNOT be a difference in soundquality at the playback of these files because the way it is going to be done. This is different from how this usually (other players) is being done, where there just *is* a difference in playback quality (for theories never mind, and because it's just audible).

Don't ask me *when* this will be supported. Depends on priorities.