And done all the things from the page I referred to ?
(yes I suppose, but you didn't say it ...)

Yeah, well, that's because of my typo 
It's DXDIAG. Sorry Chris.

Uh ohh ...

Chris, I presume you followed all which is in here (for link hence download matters) : http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=11.0

So far I did not hear (anymore) that what's in there doesn't work (and I updated it along the way).

Do you have XP SP2 ?
Do you have DirectX 9.0c ? (run DIXDIAG from the Startbutton - Run).

We'll get you there !

Because I'm kind of euforic myself about it, I thought to let you know that yesterday at last I found the means to control the #3 Engine in a way that will lead to something definitely.

Since this is the only means for Vista bitperfect playback (and decent bitperfect playback in general), I am VERY glad that I could reach this stage.

I will try to get you a demo of this as soon as possible, but which will take another 2 weeks at least.

If there's anyone around who wants to be a trial on installation attempts under Vista (but with some knowledge of how to attack errors please), let him/her speak !
At an earlier attempt when I was there myself, we just couln't get it going ... So I guess it will be tough.

Thank you,
Peter 

Hi Steve,

I can't imagine what can cause this, and besides that, all just works here !
Best might be to retry 0.7f again, so you can prove that it's 0.7i or just you. Note that along the way you could have changed your primary (!) sound device ...

Please try the same tracks at trying whether 0.7f still works.

Peter

All the CDs of Yello.

It may not be your music, but if you can get hold of a CD, just grab it, rip it, and put the volume at some crazy level.

This "music" contains :

• Synthesizers. Don't let that scare you. Not this time.
  It will unveil very interesting noises, or it just won't when things are wrong.
• Very fresh highs. So fresh, that if something is wrong, it will GO wrong. You will hurt your ears then.
• Sub low in about everything. I think Flag is the only CD without it.
  Might you have a subwoofer or two, you will notice that you can crank up the volume and *still* will have controlled lowwww bass.
  Also, just watch your tube amp at controlling the bass.
• Mail voices full of timbre (note that proper timbre is one of the harder things to achieve).
• In gerenal : room filling sound. So much, that you can't believe it's possible to play that loud without things going wrong for room anomalies.
• Very square hence dynamic rythm&pace sounds, only perceived with fast enough amplifiers.
• When it all works out, this "music" might glue you to your chair. If it even does when you don't like it, you'll sure know enough.

Now, I *know* when your playback chain is sort of okay, XXHighEnd will allow you to play this music with an SPL meter at the listening position with 90dB at the low end.
I also know, when the player is not XXHighEnd, it will just not work. In a very damped room, a bunch of basstraps added to it, maybe.

Keep in mind : only with a nos-DAC, synthesizer music will workout as intended.

Well Chris ... that sounds good !

First most obvious thing : shut off room correction for music playback.

Then, PC -> Firewire -> Fireface -> SPDIF 75 Ohm coax -> TacT -> main amps. Still obvious ...

It is up to you whether you set the playback device (which would be a Fireface device) in Vista to 44K1 or 96K (rightmost tab in the Device Properties !). YMMV here. Today I'm as far as that the upsampling Vista does, is NOT good (never mentioned that before, and didn't really know it just before a couple of days ago).
Note that so far XXHighEnd uses 16bits only (except when the WAV itself has more bits).

When you use 44K1/16bit, set the Buffer Size in the Fireface properties (yellow icon in the Taskbar Tray) to 48;
When you use 96K/16bit, set it to 128.
No real experience on more bits (24/32 and when they are in the source !) yet, but theoretically the buffer should increase when the data rate gets higher.

Small advise, based upon something I didn't workout myself yet :
When you have Firewire on the motherboard, also buy a 10 euro PCI Firewire interface card. It looks that might improve (even much), although it will depend on the Firewire from the motherboard. I can't be certain about this yet ...

Anything else ? hmm ...
Supposed the TacT can upsample (I just don't know that), set the properties in Vista to 44K1 (etc., as mentioned before), and let the TacT upsample to 88K2. Not more !! (or maybe 176K400, but your didn't mention that).

*If* there's a setting in the TacT for 16/24 bits, set it to 24. This will be related to the digital volume control, which I think is in there.
For real listening, try not to go lower with your attenuation than this thread implies : http://forum.bd-design.nl/board_entry.php?id=11215#p11224
I hope you can do the math, I can hardly understand myself what I wrote in there  ...

What remains is : let us know what happened !
Peter

Hmm ... so Leo, you didn't perform any ABXing, double blind tests and all that is needed at Hydrogen to prove that software players just cannot make a difference ?

Sorry, but in that case we cannot trust your findings.

hahahahaha

About the darker background :
When you are not sure which is better and when you don't have the presence of standing waves a rather absolute mesasurement is putting your arms (or whatever bodypart) on a table, bar or other "catching" surface, and feel that surface vibrating.
This would be a typicle means of judgement : the more vibes you feel, the better the playback must be. If you play some louder, you can just feel it on your body. Also, this is a "within one second" judgement thing.

Then, try to imagine that when the standing waves get out of the way, the more fuzzy (lower freq) sound gets out of the way with the same means. After this stage, where standing waves do not disturb anymore, there comes the (potential) stage of the waves still being able to get more tight. That's to be "measured" as described ...

Thanks,
Peter


PS: I try to keep all the judgements in their own threads, so that's why I moved your topic to this new one.

Hi Richard,

... neither ...

a. (XP)
Playing the non certified (MME) drivers from the Fireface do bypass KMixer, but playing is not stable there. I mean, when you activate another task during playing, the driver gives up and the sounds stops ... (but it implies bitperfect playback).

b. (XP)
With certified ("signed") drivers I don't think a method exists to bypass KMixer, or better, to avoid the dithering which takes place in there. I must say honestly though, that I didn't even perform all the tests to prove that. At the time I was concentrating on this I used the MME drivers (see a), and anticipating on Vista to do a better job;
Later, when Vista was there, the only thing which it brought by the then only one existing Engine (#1) was stable playback, but it's not bitperfect. KMixer became "Audio Engine" in Vista. Also that brought the possibility of larger than 64 MB file playback.
Again later I created Engine#2, meant to avoid the instability of the non certified drivers, also allowing for larger than 64MB playback. Not bitperfect.

c. (Vista)
There is no way to avoid "KMixer" (I rather keep on calling it like that) in Vista. Note that added to what already was, non-certified drivers cannot exist under Vista.
There is an escape though, and that is exclusive use of the Audio Endpoint Device. Engine#3 does that, and the playback bitperfect.
I spent four months on getting the funcionality of a player in it, until a few weeks ago I decided to get "something" for you all to download (that's when I created #2). Currently I'm working on #3 again, and I really hope to see the light in the next coming days, to present *that* to you.

I can add to it, that with the creation of #2, to my surprise that one too (not bitperfect) sounded way better than the existing known players. That's why I thought it was kind of legit to proceed on that.
Currently -never mind you all indeed think the current version sounds allright- I think it is a waste not to continue #3. It just sounds significantly better, with the option to unveil unheard detail in all the music "you" have. Whether that's correct is something else, but it can do it as a gadget anyway.
Remember, Engine#3 is Vista only.

Ad b.
With the example of this topic there might be the theoretical option of getting a Windows2000 machine, and have the time of your life. Sadly I didn't try it myself yet, but I do believe things are better in there.
To me is seems impossible though, that that will beat Engine#3 (which is really very different, software wise).

If there's anything else, please ask.
Peter

No ... because of all the square and sawtooth and triangle waves in there. 

Solved.
http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=41.0

Changes :

• Many things to improve the playlist stability (still not finishes).
• Changed the internal icon (to higher res) which shows at Alt-Tab.
• The Play button remained greyed out at using the Library button to get tracks. Now solved.
• Changed the color to normal grey.

NOTE : Chances are very high that things sound different in this version.
I didn't have the time myself to judge it. Please let know if you find differences !

It's already installed, but I know what you mean. First that would need a hyperthreading processor, and it's in order to really shut it down.
Well, if that is what you mean ... IMHO not necessary (at all) for sound. For DVD playback, yes, but for sound ... not that I can guess how or why.

Please keep in mind : I follow the theory (well, it's my own ) that all those things (tweaks) should not be necessary, and with that, now they aren't. Not with XX, until it's proven otherwise.
 

Hi Adrian,


"I can" should have been "It can".

This was about the not *over*sampling (like 256 times) combined with 2 times. 2 times 44K1 = 88K2 and not 96. So :
In order to get 96, first oversampling to a common denominator must take place. By that time, all the beautiful preserved quare waves have become pure sines.
2 times upsampling is just allright (to unquaree thee highest frequencies).

When quared (or squarish) waves come out as sines, that's nothing else than distortion.
That's why.

Lastly, Engine#1 and #2 just *are* different. So both do sound differently, I know that. From this follows at least that both can't be 100% right. And I know both for sure are not right (a chance #3 still has ).
I say that Engine#1 is better, BUT, it can't do the Doubling. Since both are not perfect, #2 with doubling should workout (!) better. Theories ...

Btw Adrian, my remarks about your remarks on the highs are not in defence of the player (I mean that), but are in the area of trying to improve your system where possible. Maybe for fun you could try a nos-DAC. Then try to find some synthesizer music you like (can you ? ). That will show the most explicit what's going on.

Regards,
Peter

Only just now !

When there's something wrong with the "base" quality of XX (which there was), it isn't of much use to compare OSses ...
Besides that, I'm in lack of a Firewire card for that PC, so it needs changing things a bit.

In fact I'm quite anxious.