How would this work if using headphones? My normal setup is indeed with amp & speakers, but I'm just curious...


No, I didn't... but I will. I suppose my logic here was to take the current 'gold standard' (to take a phrase you first used) and compare it to the settings I've been happy with for the past few months, i.e. +4/30/30/0/0 vs. -4/0/0/0/0.

Incidentally, you'll see a change in my signature from tomorrow onwards which I'm VERY excited about - I am about to become the proud owner of a Pacific Microsonics Model 2 AD/DA... Hopefully, this will help further to evaluate the various Q settings.

Mani

After extensive listening this morning (AFI1 -> D70 -> Stax headphones), and using P70 transport for comparison, I'm back to -4/0/0/0/0!

There is a 'lightness' with this setting that I lose otherwise. At +4/30/30/0/0, things get 'heavy', as though the musicians are playing in treacle.

If you have this CD, listen to tracks 3 and/or 6 of 'Memoirs of a Geisha' - beautiful music, beautifully recorded. But instruments like the bass drums can drown out the ebb and flow of the music with +4/30/30/0/0. But not with -4/0/0/0/0!

I'll happily put up with the latter's 'edginess' because it allows me to follow the emotional content of the music better. (I might switch to +4/30/30/0/0 whenever I want to relax in the evening... or when I'm in the mood for really deep, heavy bass).

Mani

My own experience and everything I've learned from reading about that of other people suggests to me that AD conversion is much more difficult to get right than DA.

I really hope the RME ADC isn't affecting the results. If so, what you're doing is amazing...

Mani

Peter, you don't have Maxwell's Embrya? And you call yourself a music lover?

In any event, you're right. The track comes up in red in EAC (when I ripped this track years ago with EAC, I'm sure this didn't happen). So, no great mistery after all - just me being a bit dumb.

Telstar, don't get me wrong, the P70/D70 is a great combo. But just a bit 'dry' sounding. The RDOT filters help, but introduce other traits that I don't like. The Rotel though has a really 'sweet' sound - the top end sparkles. Perhaps this is the CDM9Pro drive. More likely, it's loads of jitter and a bad digital filter... but I don't care, I like it!

Mani.

SOLVED.

With 'normal' CD players, you have to rewind back before time 00.00 to get track 00 'Gestation: Mythos'.

I'm assuming the same is true when playing a ripped file with XXHE (not at home to test this)...

Mani.

About 8 years ago, I made what I consider to be the biggest mistake along my 'hifi journey'. I sold my beloved Rotel RHCD-10 CD player to buy a Sony SCD-1. I didn't like the Sony so bought a Marantz SA-1. I didn't like that either, and decided that SACD was wrong - it just can't recreate real transients.

Well, last week, I took delivery of a mint Rotel RHCD-10 and a matching RHA-10/RHB-10 pre/power amp to use in my office. This CD player may be 15 years old, but my God, what a CD player! In may ways, I prefer it to my Esoteric P70/D70.

Now, not only does the Rotel sound great, it does something that no other CD player I've come across does. It plays track 00 of Maxwell's Embrya album. I can't even extract this track using EAC!

If you have this CD, please try it. It should start at track 01 and count down from -3.13 to zero before track 01 actually starts. In this time period, there's lots of wierd stuff going on.

Can anyone else get this?

Mani.

I'm sure you're both right.

In all honesty, I've never really explored any of the Q settings. I started with Q1=0 (I think) and then tried -4, liked it and stuck with it. Q=-4 seems to bring my FF800 (used as a DAC, not an spdif pass-through) more to life. But I will explore all the Q sliders further.

My comment about Q=-4 being the gold standard was a bit 'tongue-in-cheek' - it seems to provide the biggest difference with Foobar WASAPI... ergo must be the best setting. But of course, this is flawed logic

I'll give some violins a play and try to hear the difference for myself.

Really interesting stuff Peter...

Mani.

Nah, Q1=-4 Unattended is the gold standard... surely

But an XXHE - Foobar showdown would be awesome.

Mani.

Peter,

Just for my understanding:

1. You are measuring from the analogue output of your DAC.

2. All comparisons are bit-perfect.

3. In the graphs:
x-axis = time
y-axis = no. of 'off values'

Is this correct?

Mani.

I agree, it's a great deal.

One thing that you realise with 'well recorded' files like these is that we've been missing so much all these years listening to red book. Notice that I'm not criticizing 16/44.1 here - just the medium that its been distributed through.

Back on-topic - this weekend, I'm hoping to do a 'detailed' comparison between the three interfaces that I have (FF800, MOTU896HD and Weiss AFI1).

Mani.

Peter, I think you have an older version of Vista, right? SP1 seems to assign 'Speakers' to the main channels of your soundcard/interface, whether you like it or not. This is true for all my 3 SP1 Vista PCs. But I'm sure that SP0 didn't do this.

The AFI1 seems to be working properly. I was just surprised, as I've never seen '24 bits supported' before. I'm taking this as a good sign, no?

On the down side, I can't get my DAC to recognize a 16/44.1 HDCD-encoded file. Weirdly, my DAC readily recognizes that the Boston Symphony AIFF 24/88.2 files are 'HDCD-encoded' (they're technically not HDCD-encoded, but an HDCD DAC should think they are... if that makes sense).

Mani.

Wow, what a post!

I don't claim to understand everything you've written here, but it looks like you're finally being able to prove that differences between bit-perfect players do exist.

Please let the rest of us (who simply sit back and enjoy the results of your hard work) know how we can help you.

Good luck in your quest!

Mani.

Peter, does this look right to you?

I'm connecting the Weiss AFI1 to my Esoteric D70 via single and dual AES/EBU cables.

Mani.

No, I can't get any 88.2 aiff files to play in 0.9x-4. Pressing 'play' simply does nothing.

In any event, as I said, my HDCD enigma has nothing to do with XXHE... however, the error messages I posted earlier do! Would be nice to get them sorted, though I don't think this is a priority by any means.

Mani.

I'm not surprised you didn't test for these - you don't see many 88.2 AIFF files for download.

Peter, any idea why my DAC is detecting an HDCD signal from these files (I know it has nothing to do with XXHE)? Could it be the way headers are treated in AIFF as opposed to WAV? I'm just curious... 

Mani.