I have a fundamental issue that I just haven't been able to figure out...

I bought what was considered (and still is by many) to be the best ADC ever created. (I tried a whole bunch of more modern ADCs too, but they were all worse.) I bought and tried a number of different PC interfaces with this ADC. I have what is undoubtedly (on this forum at least) the best software player and DAC in the world.

It should have been trivial for my digital capture and playback system to totally recreate the 'inferior' sound of vinyl, and yet my needle drops ALWAYS sounded worse than the original vinyl. Peter, can you give me an explanation as to why this was the case?

Mani.

Hey, I still have them somewhere... can try to dig them out. But I don't think I had my vinyl setup very well optimized back then. And also I will readily admit that I NEVER managed to capture the full glory of vinyl on digital. It's not the ADC that was at fault per se, but the method of capturing the ADC output onto a storage device. Everything I tried for years failed. Some of the results were good, but never anywhere near the original vinyl. Anyway, I've now given up making needle drops for a while. If I want to hear my old 50s and 60s vinyl I just play it straight. And I have to say I love the sound - maybe not as accurate as digital, but very nice nevertheless.

I agree with Joachim 100% though - my 45rpm vinyl of Time Out trounces the 1997 Mark Wilder HDCD release in SQ. But I think a lot of this is down to the awful mixing on the HDCD - the alto sax is waaay too hot. Mark did exactly the same thing on the 1997 Kind of Blue CD release with the trumpet and saxs way too hot. He sort of admitted this when the 24/192 KOB was released recently. This has a much better balance, more in line with the original vinyl.

Mani.

For anyone who might be interested...

I've booked the INNSIDE München Parkstadt Schwabing hotel (arriving Friday 15th, departing Sunday 17th). I'm hoping to visit the show on both the Saturday and the Sunday.

This hotel is more expensive than some of the others, but it's close to the Show and to Altstadt-Lehel, which is the only part of Munich I'm vaguely familiar with. Irrespective of where you end up staying, I hope to be able to catch up with some of you in Munich.

Mani.

I'm going to put the YFS back in and 'force' myself to live with it until I get the Clairixa. Will report back with more impressions at a later date.

Mani.

I've had the YFS cable here for a while but only got around to trying it this evening. And BTW, I purposely didn't read any comments on this thread beforehand (though I've just skimmed through them now having put the YFS into the system).

I chose track 1 from 'Best Of Vaya Con Dios' because it can sound a bit sharp. I started with my current Tellurium Black Diamond USB because I'm used to its very warm and full sound. The honest truth is that I listened to exactly 10 seconds before stopping the music and taking the cable out. It sounded detailed, but way too forward and 'shouty'. Also, I'm sure there was a haze of distortion around everything. Edgy. Metallic. Listening to Vaya Con Dios's voice, she just didn't sound like a human being.

I don't particularly like the Tellurium cable - it's just too smooth and dark sounding for my liking. But hell, at least it's listenable. The YFS is definitely not for me. I'm sure I could have played around with settings to tame it a little, but quite frankly I just didn't have the inclination.

In any event, I'm going to hang on to the YFS until the Clairixa cable arrives. I'll post a follow-up then... hopefully it'll last longer than 10 seconds.

Mani.

Well, I've had my P300 for about 14 years or so now. It took me a very short time when I upgraded to 'multiwave' to prefer the straight 50Hz pure sine setting.

But I find it interesting how profoundly the AC mains can affect a component's sound.

Mani.

WTF? Haha...

And what's 'perfection based conversion' anyway?

Totally off-topic (seeing as we're talking about PSAudio):

I still have an old PSAudio P300 AC regenerator - very useful for when I need a 120V input for a source component (you can bypass the 120/240 output transformer to get 120V). Mine has the 'multi-wave' function - here a single odd harmonic is added to each sinewave fundamental to produce "partial" squarewaves. What's interesting is how this totally changes the sound. It has made every source component I've tried it with seem brighter and more dynamic. And I've wondered for many years if noise in the AC mains does a similar thing. So maybe we shouldn't be striving for perfect AC mains after all?

Mani.

Well, the main thing is my own impression of every delta-sigma DAC I've ever heard. They sound 'dead' to me. And I'm not hearing people reporting this nowadays when they write about modern DACs. But as I said, I haven't heard many (any?) high-end ones for years now.


Just read the PSAudio page. In the 'Features' they say:


I added the italics because I don't understand this sentence at all. Anyone care to help me?

Then in the 'Specs' they say:


So, the unique selling point of this DAC is single-bit delta sigma conversion??? I have an old KORG MR1000 ADC/DAC here which uses the CS4398 DAC chip - a single-bit double rate DAC chip. Presumably, this old unit does exactly what the PSAudio does when converting PCM to analogue. So what's new in the PSAudio? The fact that everything is converted to DSD? Isn't this exactly what the CS4398 DAC chip does? I mean, isn't DSD the marketing name for single-bit delta sigma?

For me, the really crucial thing is that there is still a digital conversion stage going on in the PSAudio in getting from PCM to analogue, and this can never be a good thing.

Someone please... what am I missing?

Mani.

I forgot to mention that I'm insisting on paying Peter his going rate for all the hours he spent (over his weekend!) on helping me out. This is my decision and doesn't in any way detract from the outstanding customer service I feel I've received.

Edit: I'm gonna wait at least 5 days until I pay him... just to make sure I like it 

Mani.

Are the two similarly priced?

Although I haven't heard many recently, I get the impression that modern delta-sigma DACs seem to be getting a lot better (with PCM material). Is the PSAudio one of the current front-runners in this regard?

Mani.

PS. Nah, not wanky at all.

It looks like open-baffle speakers using DSP are now getting the credit they deserve:

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/kyron-audios-kronos-best-sounding-system-you-will-ever-hear

If MF is goo goo ga ga over these then I'm sure he'd be totally blown away by the Orelino/Orelo speakers. I mean, there is no way these 'Kronos' speakers could compete with a 118dB/w mid/high horn and 3x 15" (semi horn-loaded) bass drivers per channel. Also, I suspect the DEQX unit isn't as good as the DSP bass unit our speakers. And the Kronos speakers are way more expensive.

One thing that occurs to me is that the Orelino/Orelo speakers are not getting the exposure they properly deserve. Now that I can hear what my Orelos are truly capable of I really feel this should be fixed. But how?

Mani.

Thanks Anthony.


Hey, we all know that there's no better customer service than that provided by Peter (and Ciska)!

I would recommend anyone with a pair of Orelino/Orelo speakers, who feel they currently have bass issues in the room, to give this a go. I mean, why not use their DSP to overcome such issues?

BUT... I have to say that although this whole process wasn't massively difficult, it WAS time-consuming and certainly not trivial. You have to get your head around the room equalization software, set up an appropriate sound device with input/output, set up the mic, learn how to take measurements and capture the outputs, learn how to load new filters into the speakers, and finally learn how to manipulate those filters for fine tuning.

Provided you can do all this, you should be good to go!

Mani.

You're welcome any time Paul.

Mani.

Yep, I'm really impressed with the result too. I have to admit that both Peter and myself were really unsure whether we could use the DSP to overcome the room's null point in the 40-50Hz region. But the fact that this can be done with DSP is just great.

Mani.

I'm going to be booking my flights and hotel for Munich later this week. I'll post which hotel I go for here in case others feel like making a bit of a 'Phasurite' meeting of it.

Of course we don't have to go around the show as a group, but it'd be nice to be able to compare notes over breakfast and of course over some beers in the evening.

Mani.