Hey Peter, just a very quick reply as I need to leave in the next 10 mins or so...


Yes, actually. One of my criticisms of my old Swing horns and (to a much lesser extent) my current Orelo horns has been that there seems a slight disconnect between the horn and the bass. The MF/HF seem to be pushed forward well into the room, and the LF much further back. But right now, everything seems 'together'.


You're right, my speakers are (necessarily) quite close to the rear wall. But my feeling is that there's so much 'real' detail now that the soundstage seems to have deepened. Cymbals especially seem to come from way back.

But in case it's important, my initial thoughts were based on the F-M curves totally flat (i.e. 1, 1, 3; all green). I've since switched to H=2 (i.e. 1, 1, 2). This has re-balanced the sound somewhat and has brought the MF/HF slightly forward.

All in all, I think it's just a matter of frequency balance in my case. Remember, my bass gain is set to -25.0dB. I've tried decreasing the gain to -25.5dB (and all settings in between), but feel that the sound becomes overly thin as a result (even with a 0.1dB change!).

Gotta go, but happy to share more later...

Mani.



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Hi Joachim, hi Brian. For my part, I'd say I'm on Cloud 9 about my '75B' NOS1a, and not the Blaxius cables... not yet, at least.

You see, I was seriously impressed with my RG223 H+S cables - I mean, simply the best cables I'd ever heard, 'by a country mile'. Since receiving the 75B, I've only used it with the Blaxius cables because of the 75B's 75 Ohm output (the Blaxius are 75 Ohms, the H+S 50 Ohms).

BUT... when crawling under my floorboards installing the Blaxius cables, I left the RG223 H+S cables in place. My intention was to compare them with the Blaxius cables once the latter (and the 75B) had had a few days to settle down. But I may bring the comparison forward. But I can guess right now that the H+S will sound brighter and more lively, and the Blaxius smoother and more laid back. But we'll see...

Mani.

Thanks Peter. I'll change it incrementally to see how I go.

Mani.

Peter, you just beat me to it. This is what I had just typed:


Having taken a quick peek inside my 75B, I think the Blackgates are still there. I counted at least 5 large red Blackgates...

Mani.

The original DSP file that Peter provided me for my Orelo (haha... NOT Orelino) speakers had the bass gain set to -27.0dB. From initial listening, this was clearly too high attenuation. With a bit of trial and error (i.e. no actual SPL measurements), I set it to -25.0dB for the best balance.

Right now, with my '75B' NOS1a, the bass might be ever-so-slightly too heavy - voices are just a tad too husky (though otherwise gorgeous). So I might want to play around with the gain a little. But before I do this, I have a couple of questions for you Peter.

1. Is the initial setting of -27.0dB the 'correct' setting for optimal cross-over performance?
2. How does increasing the gain by 2.0dB (as in my -25.0dB setting) affect the cross-over point?

Mani.

I replaced the regular RCA input connectors in the Orelinos with the 75Ω BNC connectors that Peter provided me. (Oh, and if Peter ever tells you that anything is a "no job", don't believe him.)

My (second) NOS1a came back with 75Ω output connectors installed (and a beautiful "75 B" inscription on its front faceplate). In the box was also a 10m pair of Peter's 'Blaxius' cables.

I've had everything set up since Saturday evening (I've hopefully crawled under my floorboards for the very last time), and here are my thoughts (sorry for the bullet points - I don't really like them, but it's just more efficient doing things this way):

Immediate Impressions

•   ultra, ultra-smooth
•   the whole sound-stage is now placed well behind the speakers
­   - cymbals generally waaay back in room (but still totally crystal clear)
­   - voices 1-2m behind speakers
•   perception of slightly compressed dynamics (compared to before)
•   nothing jumping out independently into room (in front of MF/HF horn), and absolutely nothing annoying – I could imagine listening at high SPLs to virtually anything, without any listening fatigue
•   loads of deep bass ... at long last!

On further listening

•   this is NOT a hazy, soft, woolly sound at all – there’s incredible detail
­   - easy to distinguish between different types of cymbals
­   - I'm hearing nuances I've never noticed before
•   beautiful balance to sound (maybe a little bottom-heavy, but this will be easy to adjust if I decide I want to)
•   double bass now resonates beautifully (maybe not quite as much as at Paul’s place with his Orelino speakers, but a quantum leap over the ‘paper-bass’ sound I've had with the Orelos up until now)
 
I'm really, really enjoying the sound I have right now (looking forward to the next listening session is always a good sign, and one that I've not had for a while). And more importantly, I'm totally, absolutely convinced the system is now more musically satisfying than before.

A MASSIVE thank you to Peter. Man, where would we be without you?

More to follow (I'm sure)...

Mani.

[Edit: My (second) NOS1a, which I'll refer to as '75 B' from here on in, has had the 'Nick/Paul mods' applied to it by Paul, namely; a bunch of Black Gate caps, and a Dexa USB clock with independent PS. The Dexa really shouldn't make any difference to a NOS1a, but I cannot comment on the effect, if any, that the BG caps might be having on the sound.]

Ah, good luck Coen. I began my own quest to find the 'USB cable holy grail' immediately after receiving my (first) upgraded NOS1a and noticing that USB cables now made a massive difference. But in the end, I was defeated - just way too difficult with so many other variables (such as new speakers, etc). In the end, I opted to stick with my 'expensive' USB cable, which I stupidly paid a lot of money for (more than the NOS1a upgrade!).

If I were in your position, I'd probably try the iFi Mercury cable. I won't cost the earth, and seems (purely from pics and reports online) as if it's well put together.

Mani.

Hey Peter, thanks for this (your last post especially). I can't wait to compare my current H+S 50 Ohm BNC cable with yours. I'm actually very happy with my current cable, so it should be interesting. As you mentioned, I won't be around when my (second) NOS1a with BNC connectors and the cables arrive, so I won't be able to try things until next weekend. But I'll report my findings here as soon as I possibly can.

Mani.

Hey Joachim, thanks for your last two posts - I really appreciate how you're so willing to share knowledge.

In the past, I've tried following various 'golden ratio' suggestions with, I think, very good results. However, in all cases this was with infinite baffle speakers. The Orelos are open baffle, with a lot of bass energy being directed behind the speakers. The front wings obviously provide a barrier to this rear energy mixing and cancelling with the front energy. But as you kind of suggest, Paul's room seems to actually help harness this rear energy and use it in an extremely pleasing way.

Mani.

Haha, I go away for a few days and meanwhile Peter manages to redefine 'hifi'. Hard to keep up.

Just to add to the mix...

My 2x 10m pair of 50 Ohm Huber+Suhner K_03252D (inner conductor: single strand, solid copper core coated in silver) cables arrived today. I've just installed them (still using 50 Ohm BNC-to-RCA adapters each end) and...

... well, the sound has totally changed from the 'cheap' 50 Ohm BNC cables I was using. I mean, totally transformed. My immediate impression is one of complete and utter smoothness. I have simply nothing to say about the MF and HF, both sounding totally believable - I'm not wanting of anything here (i.e. I have no desire to change anything).

The LF is nice but nowhere near as 'liquid', 'rounded' and utterly gorgeous as I heard at Paul's (Scroobius's) place. Maybe I'll never be able to achieve this is my room, but I haven't given up yet. For one thing, my bass drivers are still very young (I haven't been using the speakers much lately), and of course these cables are brand new.

But I'm happy to throw them out and give Peter's latest ideas a go. At least I now have a good reference with which to compare.

Mani.

I think this was mentioned earlier, but Brian, are you sure these adapters are 50 Ohms? I can't see this stated anywhere in the specs.

I'm almost tempted to buy some 75 Ohm BNC/RCA adapters just to hear how an impedance mismatch actually sounds, well-below RF. Are the 50 Ohm and 75 Ohm BNC dimensions identical, does anyone know?

Mani.

A quick post as I'm in the middle of running a workshop for a client...

I currently have some el cheapo BNC cables. I should receive some raw H+S K_02252_D cable (RG142) sometime next week, so will have to buy some BNC connectors and stick them on before using (not sure when I'll get around to doing this). BUT... I've also ordered some pre-assembled H+S K_03252_D BNC cables (RG223) which should arrive in a couple of weeks' time.

Will report findings when everything's in place.

Mani.

Yep I suppose. Nick heard them in Peter's room and said they sounded amazing. I especially asked about their bass performance, and he said it was outstanding. Again, I strongly suspect they sounded as good at Peter's place as they now do at yours, Paul.

Also, when I was at your place Paul, I made a point of listening to them 'near field' too, to try to eliminate the room as much as possible. And it was clear to me that their overall character was very much still there.

Mani.

I hear you guys. But you know, I've owned a whole bunch of different speakers these past 5 years or so, and the bass has sounded totally different from all of them... in the same room. My Wilson-Benesch Chimera speakers were 'boom, boom, boom' - way too much unfocused bass from their 4x 10" bass drivers and two downward-firing ports. The Quad 2905s had a beautifully balanced sound, but just not enough dynamics to sound real. I could go on...

Yes, the room may be a contributing factor. But I'm convinced that Paul's Orelinos would sound as good in my room as they do in his.

My Orelos should sound at least as good. I have two hypotheses as to why they currently don't:

1) My Orelo 15" bass drivers are simply not burned-in/loosened up yet. This really could be the main problem. Even at fairly high volumes, they are hardly moving. So how long would it take for them to loosen up under normal usage?

2) The Orelino 12" drivers are simply 'better'. I'll leave defining 'better' for now.

In any event, I'm determined to get the sound I want... in my room.

Mani.

I popped into Paul's (Scroobius's) place on my way back home from a meeting in London earlier today. And oh boy am I glad I did...

I didn't spend long there, but long enough to know that Paul has now achieved quite an amazing sound. I really can't remember the last time I was so impressed with a system. Sitting quite a way back from the speakers, the sound is totally coherent and holistic. We played a number of tracks from different albums, some not particularly well recorded, and in all cases, the sheer musicality emanating from the speakers was lovely. Nothing false-sounding, just utterly natural. I would swap the sound that I'm getting from my system for Paul's in a heartbeat.

What was really, really interesting for me was the quality of his bass. His Orelino MkII speakers have 3x 12" drivers per channel. My Orelo MkII speakers have 3x 15" drivers per channel. My speakers have 50% more radiating area than Paul's... and yet his bass is fuller, more tuneful, and quite frankly way more realistic than mine. On my system, a double bass sounds as though it's made of cardboard, in comparison to his.

Maybe his room is a contributing factor... I dunno. What I do know is that my bass is not 'right'. And I am determined to get to the bottom of this...

As a starter, a question for Bert and Peter. Apart from the obvious size difference, what, if any, are the differences between the bass drivers used in the Orelo vs. the Orelino? Are the 12" drivers more 'compliant' in any way, shape or form?

Mani.