Hey Peter, are you talking about the analogue output stage here? So the more 'work' it's doing, the higher the noise it injects back into its supply, which finds its way into the digital supply? Or have I totally misunderstood what you're saying?

Mani.

Yes exactly. As soon as I use any XX filtering. Actually, not just XX filtering. I've tried with HQPlayer, and again I prefer no filtering in software. The sound is best with straight 16/44.1 going into the DAC.

Of course, I'm talking about 'standard' DACs with oversampling filters built into the chips, and not the NOS1.

Mani.

Peter, thanks for your last three posts. I find all this stuff really fascinating. And Jud, thanks for bringing it up in the first place.

Maybe slightly off-topic in this thread, but there's something that's been on my mind for quite a while now that I felt Peter alluded to here (highlight mine):


How does increasing the data rate from 1.4Mbps to 33.9Mbps affect the noise in the [USB] interface? And if this does indeed lead to a big increase in interface noise, is this not a strong argument for having the filtering done in-DAC?

I say all this from having had to use a number of 'standard' DACs in my office system whilst my NOS1 is with Paul (Scroobius). And for all the DACs I've used, I prefer to use no filtering whatsoever in XX. As soon as I do, the sound becomes grey and unlistenable to me. I can only explain this by extra noise in the USB line due to higher data rates.

(Incidentally, before I received my first NOS1, I used a Pacific Microsonics Model Two as my main DAC. And here, I did prefer filtering in XX before sending the signal to the DAC. But I was using a PCI or firewire interface, and not a USB interface. And also, the DAC was non-oversampling at 4fs rates, which made it prime for accepting higher data rates.)

Any thoughts???

Mani.

Well, this whole endeavour is about vibration control and I just wanted to show that the PC in the basement and the NOS1 in the 'studio' both sit on the earth foundations of the house - i.e. a solid floor. The speakers in the listening room, meanwhile, sit on a suspended wooden floor. What I didn't show though were the two 'sleeper' brick walls in centre of the dead space below the wooden floor that support the joists. Although suspended, it's a solid floor that's capable of withstanding quite some pounding.

I doubt I'll fill the wings with anything immediately. But I'd be interested in hearing your feedback on the difference, if any. If I do decide to fill them, I'll definitely use them without the footers and have the weight distributed over the back bracket and wings (I may do this anyway, even without the filling).

Mani.

Update...

I've been using a pair of 10m cables (with a signal-signal capacitance of only 47pF/m) that Juan had built up for me  by a technician he knows in Spain (thanks so much Juan). These cables are seriously good and very reasonably priced. They sound at least as good as any 1m cables I have here (including the anticables). In any event, having had them in place for the last couple of weeks now, I'm confident that these 10m cables have little or no detrimental affect on the sound. So I made the decision that the NOS1 was definitely going to be placed 10m away in the little 'studio' in my basement - pretty much totally isolated from the listening room. I completed the necessary work yesterday. The listening room is now pretty clean, with nothing but the speakers showing from the listening position (currently the amps are there too) and the monitor & keyboard on the shelves behind (see below). The PC sits in the basement and the NOS1 in the basement 'studio'. I created a little diagram to show this (see below), but it probably confuses more than helps.

Cutting a long story short, I'm ready for the Orelo MkII speakers!

Mani.

This seems like typical DSD behaviour to me.

Mani.

Oh dear. DSD to PCM via a software converter. It never ceases to amaze me how stupid some people are. They go to all that trouble to get the tapes, prepare them, set them up on the R2R machine... and then can't be bothered to take two transfers - one in 'pure PCM' and one in 'pure DSD'. This isn't difficult to do. I have the capability in the little 'studio' in my basement. And it's exactly what I do with my needle drops - once at 24/192 with a Pacific Microsonics Model Two and once at DSD128 with a Korg MR1000. (Incidentally, I use the MR1000 and not the MR2000 that they use because the latter has a cheap nasty power supply, and the former has a 12V input allowing me to use a high-quality linear PS.)

Hey Peter, did you ever make your home drum recording available to the rest of us to listen to? I know you're a little embarrassed about the playing (it was you and not Paul, right?), but if we promise not to laugh, it may be very educational for us to be able to hear what a drum kit should sound like.

Mani.

(Highlight mine.)

'Days'? What I would give for just a 4-day wait. I think you meant 'weeks'.

Nick, Paul, don't pack your bags to come over for a listen just yet. Think we'll be well into May by the time they're here...

But really, I know that a lot has gone into these speakers. And although of course I'm dying to have them here, I would much rather give Bert as much time as he needs to get things absolutely right. Once they're in position at my place, I'm not moving them for anything, and sending them back for upgrades/changes will be simply out of the question. Got to get it right first time!

Mani.

Hey Nick, I'm a little confused. Did you listen to Peter's actual Orelo MkII speakers (the black 'Darth Vader' ones in his pics above) with 3x 15" bass drivers, or the previous Orelino speakers with 3x 12" bass drivers?

My understanding was that it was the latter. And from the sounds of it, things have moved on considerably from there with the Orelo MkIIs.

Mani.

PS. You should pity me not envy me - the wait has been a long one... and continues...

I had an interesting conversation with Gerd Sauermann when he was here a few weeks ago. He told me of a demo that he and a horn speaker manufacturers did in Germany a short while ago, with his amps and the horn speakers. Apparently, people initially complained about the horn speakers sounding "like horn speakers". But Gerd and the amp manufacturer had a trick up their sleeves. They stopped the music playback, brought some real instruments into the room and started playing them. Only after people's ears had become acclimatized to the real instruments did they start the music playback again. The response the second time was totally different, and massively positive. Apparently, they could play along with the music and people couldn't tell what was real and what was coming from the speakers.

My previous Swing horn speakers were flawed in many ways (you heard them, so you know), but one thing they did do was to introduce me to a different type of sound. For the first time I heard life-like transients from my system, and now that I've tasted this, I can't go back. But I have to say that it took me quite a while to acclimatize to the sound, flawed though it was.

Of course you'll get a chance to listen to the Orelos at my place. But I'd caution against making a quick judgment because I suspect they'll be so different from anything else we've ever heard from a replay system...

Mani.

Lee, if I were you, I'd try a single HDD in your PC, so essentially you'd only have a single SATA connection.  I would install the OS and XX in a separate 100GB partition on the HDD. There would then be two options for where to store the music:

1. On the rest of the HDD, assuming it's a big one and can accommodate all your music. (This is what I do.)

2. On a NAS or other network drive. You would then need to have the 'Keep LAN services' button active, and the adjacent 'Persist' button inactive, in order for XX to shut down the LAN in Unattended playback.

Yeah, a bloody PITA I know, but it made a big difference here, I'd say especially in the bass.

Good luck.

(Totally OT: what did you think about the Hugo? I'm thinking of getting one later in the year to use during my work travels, and I'd love to hear your views, seeing as you have a good reference with which to compare.)

Mani.

Unfortunately, yes.

I'm currently using a pair of old Celestion SL600 speakers powered by a pair of Bert's mono amps, and man, these speakers can sing (never heard them sounding so musical until I tried them with these amps). And yet I'd bet my house that most people would comment on their lack of bass. High-passing them at around 100KHz and using a sub or two might help, but it would have to be so carefully done that I think it's more effort than is worthwhile.

Mani.

Nice Peter. Thanks.

(I've ordered the CD in anticipation of my speakers.)

Mani.

Not sure who this is directed at, but on my side, yes of course.

Maybe I should have qualified my listening to Paul's modded NOS1 with "... in his system"...

Once I have the Orelos here, of course I will try them with both my totally standard NOS1 and my 'Nick/Paul-modded' NOS1 and will simply use whichever NOS1 I prefer the sound of. I trust no-one's ears more than my own... including yours Peter. Do you remember the first time I came around to your place and was able to identify the hires track from the 16/44.1 one (that you couldn't)? Haha...

Mani.

There's no point in my commenting on any detail of your post Peter... until I get my Orelo speakers here. But I just wanted to say thanks for sharing - as a prospective owner, I'm fascinated by what I'm about to receive.

I suspect your post will come across to many as 'marketing', but to me it comes across as 'education'. You were at this exact place 3-4 years ago with the NOS1 - trying to convince people that the generally accepted 'formula' for most DACs at the time was wrong. And of course you were at this place with XX way, way earlier than that. Let's see if you can make it 3/3.

Mani.