Album Sample Rate data in revised spreadsheet attached.

I am cautious to draw conclusions because it is not clear to me yet whether the Tidal App see different files than 3rd party apps such as Volumio and XXHE.

My data does suggest that Patricia Barber/Cliques is still MQA with the Tidal App (but this could change at any time).

The only thing that is consistent for all the other albums in the spreadsheet would be if Tidal is seeing different files now, otherwise how or why has the Emotional Oranges album gone from 44K to 48K, if Tidal App is upsampling would it not have gone to 88K.

Colin

The data I published in this post was misleading.

The Tidal PC App with Exclusive Mode OFF plays at whatever sample rate is set as Default in Windows Audio Device settings (ie Windows does the sample rate conversion) see attached. Therefore Sample Rates from Tidal App will only mean something With Exclusive Mode ON.

Will re publish my album sample rate data in a new post.


Colin

Hi Peter

Paul Simon/Your the One might tell you something.

Via Tidal App its Max & plays at 96KHz with & without MQA pass through so probably genuine HiRes (sounds great) Tidal #4157739.

Via Volumio it plays at 48/24 and marked as MQA (no decoding possible with volumio)

My download from XXHE from years ago also Tidal#4157739 is 44/24 and confirmes as MQA using the MqaTagRestorer.

Colin

Hi Peter

Appreciate all you say about Max.

I don't have any download option that enables me to examine the Spectrographs. Download is only possible at moment with android and you can't examine the file, its only possible to play them with the Tidal App. 3rd party apps never worked well for me and probably won't see Max files now.

I prefer sound quality from the W10 Tidal App over the Android App and that's with an up to date W10, possibly 14393.0 would be better but has to be online which might be risky.

Regards
Colin

Tidal's Apps now include HiRes offerings, see attachment

Hires files are identified by a Max icon and these include MQA. Unless you measure output or have a DAC displaying Sample Rate you won't know exactly what you are getting.

I have Volumio for Tidal Streaming and it does not yet show Max files it still shows the M icon for MQA albums. Its probably the same for other 3rd party Tidal Streaming Apps.

For example Rufus Wainwright/Folkocracy:-

 via Volumio is still marked as M for MQA and plays at 48/24 (no MQA decoding with Volumio).

Streaming it with Tidal Android App it is marked Max and plays at 96/24 (I had MQA Pass Through enabled so I think its genuine HiRes).
 
Downloading and playing it with the Tidal Android App and it plays at 192/24 (possibly the App upsamples it).

Mission for Peter should he wish to accept it !!!

Colin

Hi Peter

I tried:- https://www.noteburner.com/tidal-music-converter-windows.html

Bit flaky but did manage to download a track from Hiromi/Blue Giant which was less than the 3 min track limit for the trial version.

It was 24/48 as expected but the MQATagRestorer did not recognize it as MQA.

Actually it looks like it has already done the MQA decoding.
Analysis of the track shows data is missing above 17KHz, I have reported this to Noteburner.

The generated log files shows that Noteburner is controlling the Tidal desktop app and looks to be playing the track to download it.

Colin 

I have been Tidal Streaming while login for XXHE is out of action. Now I see from Peter's latest post that there may not be a fix for XXHE.

Anyway I am getting good results streaming with the Tidal App using a Cisco CBS110-8T-D ethernet switch, not as good XXHE but definitely better with the switch.

I found out about this device on the Fidelizer site, he produces an upgraded version.
https://www.fidelizer-audio.com/etherstream-network-switch/

I just bought a standard CBS110-8T-D and made some simple power supply improvements.
https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/products/collateral/switches/business-110-series-unmanaged-switches/datasheet-c78-744158.html

Colin

I can still login to Tidal on my android phone & on my W10 PC.

Copying an album link from Tidal to XXHE for preparing (as I usually do it) returns nothing.

Colin

Hi Peter

Something happens when decoding MQA16, attached is 1st track of the Gruppo Sportiv album and it shows decoding to 24bit and lower noise above about 20KHz

Good album
Colin

Hi Peter

What bit depth is the unicode.... file ?. If it stays at 16 then it is just like switching decoding off in Settings.

With my settings for MQA16 (decoding ON, MQARATE 88200) I get 24bit and this gives a measurable lower noise even though XXHE upsampling ultimately outputs 24bit with or without decoding. Both options giving 44100.

I slightly favour my settings for sound quality but I might be imagining it. I will get someone with younger ears to see if they hear a difference.

Anyway good news if you are able get the MQARATE automatically now.

Best Regards
Colin

Hi Peter

Downloaded Deep Purple/Hard Road/CD01 - It is 44/16 Tagrestorer says ORIGINALSAMPLERATE is 44100. It decodes to 44/24 just like all the other 44/16 MQA albums I have.

In the period 1.4.21 to 1.9.21 I have 4 MQA albums 3 of which are 44/16 :-
K.D.Lang - Sing It Load
Pink Floyd - Animals Remastered
Joan Armatrading - Consequences

The other album is Gretchen Parlato - Flor but this is 44/24 with ORIGINALSAMPLERATE 88200 so full MQA

I also see that that the Unicode.... file decodes to same rate and depth whatever MQARATE you put in the MTT files or even if its blank. So I am guessing that the MQARATE just influences whether tracks play to the end or not.

Regards
Colin

Further to reply#16 I have worked through my MQA downloads with the TagRestorer and find many have an originalsamplerate of 44100 or 48000 so nothing to unfold even though they are recognised as MQA.

Also the 44100 ones are 16bit and decode to 24bit.

I find the 24bit ones  (before decoding) which don't double their frequency when decoded play ok with MQARATE set to 44100 or 48000 as appropriate so have attached macros for this.

The 16bit ones jump to next track prematurely with MQARATE of 44100 0r 48000 so do require 88200 or 96000 to play properly.

To differentiate various possibilities the TagRestorer can be used but needs something like dBpoweramp installed to show the metadata:- see attached.

Alternative is install mp3tag free version. This can be adjusted to show Frequency & Bit Depth. Attached example is for a downloaded album showing all tracks are 48000/24. also it shows how to edit a column to show bit depth.

Next start Mp3tag and change directory to your XXHE folder and in XXHE (can be Full OS Attanded) play a track with decoding turned ON. When play starts click refresh in Mp3tag and the unicode.... file will show the decoded frequency & bit depth. See attached.

Now you have necessary info to set MQARATE in the MTT files.
I determine there a 3 options:-

1. Unicode...file frequency is twice the undecoded frequency then set MQARATE to the Unicode...file frequency.

2. Unicode...file frequency is same as the undecoded frequency and undecoded bit depth is 16 bit then set MQARATE to the twice Unicode...file frequency.

3. Unicode...file frequency is same as the undecoded frequency and undecoded bit depth is 24 bit then set MQARATE to the Unicode...file frequency.

Hope this is useful

Colin




 

Hi Peter

I do have some time these days so if there is anything I might be able to do to help just ask.

I looked at one MQA track from Hiromi which is 24/48 and Tagrestorer says ORIGINALSAMPLERATE was 48.
I compared the Unicode...WAV files with decoding on & off but they look identical to me, see attached.

https://tidal.com/browse/album/276031302

Colin

I have done a lot more investigation of Tidal Masters & exchanged emails about this with Peter.
The big find was a utility freely available from MQA called MQA TagRestorer. It allows one to check if a music file is MQA and if it is restores the OrignalSampleRate Tag to the FLAC file which MQA deleted from all Tidal Master downloads a few years back. Its the OrignalSampleRate which enables us to get the right MQARATE for the .MTT files in XXHE.

There is a big BUT however. Many of the recent Tidal Masters reveal that the OriginalSampleRate is either 44100 or 48000 so there can't have been any music info to fold/unfold above 22 or 24KHz. So it looks like MQA does not fold these albums and I suppose it only De blurs. Measuring the Tidal App output I only see upsampling to 88200 or 96000 of these offending albums.

Back to XXHE and it always tries to unfold MQA and if you enter 44100 or 48000 as MQARATE it won't work.
So as suggested in an earlier post entering 88200 or 96000 is best way to make them playable. But this does not upsample them, XXHE will show 88200 or 96000 but the Unicode...wav file stays at 44100 or 48000. You can use XXHE's own ArcPredict upsampling but its actual output rate will always be half the value displayed. Custom Filters don't work because of this issue.

I don't want to get into a Sound Quality debate some of the low rate Masters sound ok. I don't understand why MQA have accepted 44100 or 48000 masters for encoding when higher rate files will be available in most cases.

You can get the MQA TagRestorer here:-
https://www.mqa.co.uk/tag435sdf43te

Happy Pondering
Colin