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 61 
 on: September 16, 2014, 04:16:26 pm 
Started by christoffe - Last post by christoffe

Only if you refuse to use the DC Offset procedure.


Hi Peter,

eh? So I'm behind as always!  dntknw

Please explain. Thanx.

Joachim


 62 
 on: September 16, 2014, 04:01:41 pm 
Started by christoffe - Last post by PeterSt
Arvind needs the gain of his preamp ...

Quote
if your poweramp has a decent/reliable DC offset protection.

Huh ??
Only if you refuse to use the DC Offset procedure.
Or, of course, if you like to use Pahse Alignment.

Regards,
Peter

 63 
 on: September 16, 2014, 02:49:53 pm 
Started by christoffe - Last post by christoffe
Hi Guys,

Seems to be a very interesting discovery (if I may call it). Certainly worth attempting as the cost is very minimal. However for guys (like me) who are still using a pre amp,  should we go a step further & attempt to change the interconnect between the pre amp & amp too?

Best regards,

Arvind

Hi Arvind,

please see the PDF in the Reply #45 of this thread.

I do not have any experience with a 50Ohm BNC connection from the NOS1 to a preamp. You have to test it.

From my experience with the 50Ohm BNC connection between the Dartzeel pre- and poweramp the difference ( if we make it simple) to the RCA connection was appr. 20% in favour for the BNC.

You will get the best result/SQ omitting the preamp (Peters suggestion for the best SQ possible since the beginning), if your poweramp has a decent/reliable DC offset protection.

The BNC connection between the NOS1 and the poweramp creates a new SQ.
Mani wrote, that he do not hear any cable!

kind regards

Joachim





 64 
 on: September 16, 2014, 11:06:41 am 
Started by christoffe - Last post by arvind
Hi Guys,

Seems to be a very interesting discovery (if I may call it). Certainly worth attempting as the cost is very minimal. However for guys (like me) who are still using a pre amp,  should we go a step further & attempt to change the interconnect between the pre amp & amp too?

Best regards,

Arvind

 65 
 on: September 16, 2014, 09:03:39 am 
Started by christoffe - Last post by PeterSt
Quote
Maybe it is because of this typing that I still survive it.

I rephrased that a couple of times, but I think it still showed the opposite of what I meant to say (I just put it wrongly). During that typing I thought "okay, it won't be so that this doesn't disturb now because I'm typing and not really paying attention to the music ?!".

At this moment I am fairly sure that my noise problem played a large role in this all. So I say/quote it again :

Quote
It is not said (or 100% sure to me) that it is the cable which "creates" the distortion. I mean, it can also be that it passes on better what the source is really telling.

... and if the source contains noise ...

I was able to play a couple of albums yesterday after all and what I could tell from it is that the highs seem to be way more extended (+ refined !) than before. Mind you, this is with the (my) standard DSP setting hence the perceived "lean" setting. Well, nothing lean in there anyway and I really don't see how anyone would want more / more powerfull bass.

So, continuing with this cable ... yes

Peter

 66 
 on: September 15, 2014, 10:51:15 pm 
Started by christoffe - Last post by manisandher
Well, I'm with Joachim on this one.

I first tried the BNC cable (a single 5m run with BNC-RCA adapters at both ends) in my office system - NOS1 (not 'a') connected directly to Stax headphones. There was simply no question that this was the most transparent of the cables I had to hand, including some pretty expensive stuff. I listened for hours to this setup and had virtually no complaints. My wife also agreed. Incredible detail, but totally smooth. The most tuneful bass I had heard through these headphones. My Stax are >10 years old and were the cheapest of the range back then. I love their tone, but have always thought the LF is a bit full and slow. But not with the BNC cable - the bottom end really tightened up.

I then tried two 5m runs in series to create a 10m run. There was virtually no change in the sound - maybe a tad brighter, but really nothing noticeable.

Having assured myself that these cables were 'the real deal', I routed a pair of 10m runs under my floorboards from the NOS1a in my basement to the Orelo speakers in my main room. The sound was transformed (for the absolute better).

I hear no 'flavour' whatsoever. Even on the same album, differences between the recording/mixing/mastering of different tracks are clearly audible.

How can my experience be so different from Peter's? I dunno... Maybe his BNC-RCA adapters are not truly 50 Ohms, and mine are???

In any event, my BNC cables are here to stay until I can be convinced that they're adding a flavour to the sound. At the moment, I don't hear them 'adding any flavour', but rather hear them 'taking away a mask'.

Mani.

 67 
 on: September 15, 2014, 06:28:15 pm 
Started by christoffe - Last post by PeterSt
Oh My.....
Last night I did my research on another cable with
50Gz bandwidth.
I guess it's irrelevant now.

 dntknw dntknw

Or not. Happy

Or indeed. swoon

So I see you guys looking for the highest bandwidth, but all you can imply with that is amplifiers not coping. Or speakers.
So think about this ...

Peter

 68 
 on: September 15, 2014, 06:22:28 pm 
Started by christoffe - Last post by PeterSt
Quote
It is not said (or 100% sure to me) that it is the cable which "creates" the distortion. I mean, it can also be that it passes on better what the source is really telling.

With this in mind ...

I thought, what the h*ck, let's try to measure differences in THD between the cable I always use and the BNC cable.
Well, I never got 'round to that ...

I saw a pile of noise (like 200uV-p while it should be 25uV-p). What ?
Yep.
Hmm ...
That noise appeared not to be there from the measurement PC - only the audio PC. I didn't understand and even removing the USB cable did not matter (with the measurement PC it did).
One hour further :

Two weeks ago I moved the measurement PC (= "server" as well) down to the basement and with that all the power arrangements changed. That server PC (connected through isolated LAN/Ethernet with the audio PC) went into a separate earth ring. Before this change it always has been in the same earth ring as the audio PC.
But what can now be the difference ?

I honestly don't know.
Always and always the audio PC had to be in the same ring as the audio equipment itself BUT connected to mains earth (and the equipment not). Today ? well, I moved the audio PC into the earthless outlet (same as the audio gear) and ... gone was the noise (notice that this whatever noise itself is  inaudible anyway).

One more thing (but actually for a different topic) :
When the NOS1a is connected to the server PC (in mains earth and another earth ring), the black wire in the NOS1a has to be CONNECTED or otherwise I would see the same noise. However, that PC does not contain any isolated Silverstone card. For the audio PC this did not matter (as how it was prior to this change - and noise remains as high and looked completely the same). Now, with the NOS1 connected to the audio PC (with isolated Silverstone) as of the change I applied, the wire has to be LOOSE, or otherwise the noise is slightly worse (but I can't incur for any high levels any more anyway now).

How the power meter (to the audio PC) can show 4 Watts of usage more in this situation ? Of course I can't tell. But it should be related to current now flowing over hot + neutral while previously part of it went over earh as well (and the meter not taking that into account I'd say).

D*mn difficult stuff AGAIN.

Same album as the one because of which I shut off everything yesterday is playing for 22 minutes now. Maybe it is because of this typing that I still survive it.

???

Peter

PS: Can't listen much more today because I need to go out shortly.

 69 
 on: September 15, 2014, 06:19:07 pm 
Started by christoffe - Last post by vrao
Oh My.....
Last night I did my research on another cable with
50Gz bandwidth.
I guess it's irrelevant now.

 dntknw dntknw

 70 
 on: September 15, 2014, 04:47:31 pm 
Started by christoffe - Last post by PeterSt
Peter, I have problems with the interpretation of the following definitions:
-   so holes = on/off = square; squariness

High frequency on/off sound. So the sound goes on and off in a high frequency, that in itself implying squares as such. And that creates the :

Quote
-   grey

So say that a 12KHz intended tone is going on/off for 50% of it's "duty cycle" then the result is 6Khz but not a sine (plus very high frequency harmonics beyond the audio band).

Quote
-   flavor

Not neutral. All "cymbals" sound similar.

Quote
-Quote-
Also watch out for my next disclaimer :
It is not said (or 100% sure to me) that it is the cable which "creates" the distortion. I mean, it can also be that it passes on better what the source is really telling. If that would be the real truth, then too bad and nothing much to do about that at this moment. Yes, maybe apply a nice heavily ringing filter. But I am not going to do that anyway ...
-Unquote-

My assumption is, due to the construction of the double shielded cable there is less noise and < HF immissions, and what we hear is nearer to the reality.

It is okay if you think that, but anticipate that you fool yourself. For example, it is true that the "ticks" etc. on cymbals are better audible, but it is not right that no "developing" sound of the cymbal is there. This is how all the ticks an random cymbals start to sound the same.
You are even allowed to judge all as "better resolution" and from there more sharply boundaried, but you never win any game (from me) when that again all sounds similar while it is clear that nothing should sound similar.

Also, no double triple etc. cable is going to help a thing here, because I am using that for ages already (and for that reason btw).

Quote
and what we hear is nearer to the reality.

This is the danger-part;
I tend to agree with this with the BCN cable in. But nobody ever is going to convince me that *thus* not-neutrality will be our share.  But hey, I punched the subject enough I think, and everybody (now fed with some mere negatives) can decide for his own. So please do, and don't stop reporting !!

Thank you Joachim,
Peter

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