Thanks and Sound Quality

[simpsimon]

Hi Peter, I'm new to your wonderful program.  My son Tony S introduced me to it.  He interceded yesterday in my behalf when I was having trouble getting an activation number from you. Thank you for responding so quickly to his request.  I am now able to log in thanks to him and you as you can tell by this message.

I am a vinylholic, audioholic, audiofool, which means I am addicted by excellent sound quality.  I converted to vinyl playback from CD playback two years ago.  I was a die hard surround sound fan until I rediscovered stereo in the vinyl format.  I modified my old Luxman Brid LV105 (tubed output stage), got a Technics 1400 from KAB, cleaned up all 300 of my old LP's, bought some new remastered virgin vinyl and sat back and was amazed at the warmth, detail and non sibilance vinyl presented.  To make a long story short, I've ripped all my CD's to my hard drive in WAV format using EAC (Exact Audio Copy) and when I compare the sound of a certain vinyl LP album to the same ripped album played using XXHighEnd, XXHighEnd comes very, very, very close to achieving vinyl sound quality.  I'm sure that with some practice I'll be able to duplicate vinyl sound.

Do you have any recommendations as far as settings that would help me in this endeavor.

Thanks again
SimpSimon

[Telstar]

I'm sure that with some practice I'll be able to duplicate vinyl sound.

You'll be able to beat that with a good DAC.

[simpsimon]

Presently using a USB powered Musiland Monitor 01 US DAC which is asynchronous, and a 24/192 player.  All I could afford right now.  Looking to get a better one when I'm rich.

[boleary]

Welcome Simpsimon. I have looked long and hard at those Musiland dacs. I asked the producer if they would support XXhighend kernel streaming and was told that it could not. You say, however, that you've already used it with XX so my first question is which sound engine are you using in xx, #3 or #4? I'm pretty sure that the consensus around here is that engine #4, kernel streaming, produces the best sound. Click on your settings tab and the Output section will tell you which engine you are currently using. Also, which version of xx are you using? Makes a difference when trying to explain things.

[PeterSt]

Hey there SimpSimon. At giving you a warm welcome here, I have to say that your little introductionary story shows a warmth which probably comes from the expressed relation with your son. Or let me put it differently : I wish I could have directed my father while he was alive to something like this, with some additional specialty because it is my own.

Yeah, I recall the day, maybe 30 years ago now, that with full enthusiasm I showed my father my first system in my own house, with his response "but son, this isn't even HiFi !". Yes, already back then some people were operating in audio, calling HiFi something of the 70's of the past century, and my father was amongst them.
I never forgot that day, and your post reminded me of it once again.


There is no one answer to your question, but an advice might be to leave Q2/3/4/5 alone (at 0). Indeed try to use Engine#4 or IOW a sound device which pops up prefixed with "KS:", and try to play with the KS (Kernel Streaming) Modes. But do not forget to follow the ToolTip) guides on the Q1 settings per KS Mode setting. Adaptive Mode may be the best sounding, but it depends.
Parallell to this, try which Processor Core Appointment setting sounds best to you. This is unpredictable, and depends very much on your system.
In all cases, avoid ticks, clicks or gaps. This looks like a stupid remark, but actually XXHighEnd Kernel Streaming Special and Adaptive Mode has been created to just reach the (SQ) limits of your system, wich means you have to be able to cross that limit in order to find it. And yes, it could even be so you accept a click here or there while the SQ is much better than without it, but better don't.

I hope this suffices for now,
All the best,
Peter

[simpsimon]

Thanks Peter, great to talk to someone who remembers the good ole days when HiFi was the catchword.  My Dad was a radio repairman and a music enthusiast.  Our first experience with stereo was when he rigged up two radios so that the left channel was AM radio and the right channel was FM radio.  At that time this was jaw dropping amazing.  My first experience with true stereo was when I was going to Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI) in the late 50's.  A couple of guys came in and demonstrated stereo using two turntable with one turntable playing the left track and the other the right track.  I was totally blown away by the separation and sound stage. It took a coordinated effort by the two to synchronize the two turntables.  After graduation I built a Dynaco Stereo 70 valve integrated amp and a turntable to play the new stereo LP's that came out.  It was a blast.  Sold the Dynaco Stereo 70 to build a new technology Heathkit solid state integrated amplifier.  I was always a technoholic and couldn't resist anything new electronics wise. Selling the Dynaco was a big mistake.  Wish I had it now so I could mod it with a state of the art power supply.  But the Luxman BRID sounds great.  Anyway, your program is the balls.  I'm going to A & B the Beatles "Love" album (great sonics) on vinyl versus the same album in a WAV file using XXHE this weekend.  I'll let you know how it works out.  I'm pretty confident XXHE will closely rival the vinyl.

Thanks again,
Simpsimon (Bill)

[simpsimon]

Hi Boleary, Simpsimon (Bill) here.  The Musiland works great with XXHE.  I'm using the 09z version of XXHE with the settings at Device= KS, Engine 4, KS Mode=Adaptive, Q1 at 3, Other Q's at zero, buffer at 1024, and my files play with the Musiland control panel (Musiland uses its own driver, not PlugPlay) indicating 176.4 at very, very near vinyl warmth and detail.  Its a USB DAC and I'm extremely pleased.  Love to A & B it with a Cambridge DACMagic just for Ha! Ha!s. My computer is a VISTA 64 bit with 8 grams of memory and a Quad processor.  That may be why it works so great with the Musiland and XXHE.  Hope this answers your question and thanks for chatting.

Bill

[boleary]

Thanks Bill. Here's a link to a modded Musiland by the DIY guys. Its the Cleo; looks very interesting for the price:
http://show.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/st.pl?DIY%20Digital&1&aline&Diyhifisupply

So you are using quad arc prediction to get the 176. That's great. Can't believe I was told that XX would not work with the Musiland ASIO drivers.

I am wondering what you mean when you say, "and my files play with the Musiland control panel" ? Is this something that you set before using xx or is it open simultaneously with xx?

So, you are beating the pants off the DACMagic?

As you probably know, Peter is developing a dac specifically for XX. I'm sure it will be among the very best, if not the very best. Cost though will probably keep it out of reach here for a while so I keep looking for an affordable alternative to get to quad arc prediction! Thanks for posting.

[simpsimon]

Thanks for the mod link Boleary, I'll have to check it out and see if it's something I can do inexpensively.  In answer to your questions, yes, I am using arc prediction with the 4x setting in 09z(quad in the earlier XXHE version).  The Musiland 01 US DAC is not a plug and play DAC like most of the others.  It is asynchronous so it comes with it's own drivers on a CD, or better yet, downloaded from Musiland's web site. The driver is in the form of a Musiland control panel that pop's up during startup.  The control panel has two pages.  The first is a page of master, wmd, and ASIO volume control sliders, mute buttons and a headphone button (it's actually a pretty decent headphone amp).  The second page contains a list of buffer selections and a Precision Mode which I use per my son's suggestion.  It's pretty cool as it gives you more controls to play with to get the sound quality you prefer.

Check it out,
Bill

[Flecko]

I post here, so I don't have to start a new thread. I feel like I have to say you Peter, I enjoy my hifi-system very much and xx brings a important part to it.
THANX!

[PeterSt]

Thank you very much Adrian. Good to hear, and always willing to improve.
And very nice it worked out for you !

All the best,
Peter

[juanpmar]

Hi, another new one here.

First let me thank you all for your contribution on this forum that helps greatly to deal with XXHighEnd and let me congratulate specially to Peter for the fantastic player. For me, and old music lover, this player is the most important discovery in the last times. Contrary to SimpSimong I used seldom the analogue system and the last years I´ve been heavily in the digital side spending time and money to improve the sound in a way or another with tubes, cables, dacs etc. Now for the first time in the last times I´ve discovered another way to get great sound without spending ridiculous amounts of money. I have the feeling that with the XXHigEnd player we are now working with the future and with first class sound. (Ok, sorry for being a little corny, but I´m quite impressed).

Please let me comment a few things about my experience with the player.

About flac and wave. Last week I bought some 24/96 files from HDTracks (Hiroshima. The Bridge and Rebeca Pidgeon. The Raven). The files came originally as flac and I´ve put it that way in the XXHighEnd disk, I at the same time converted that files with dbpoweramp to wav. I compared the sound of both kind of files and they are very different. I know that the flac is converted to wav by the player but even after that conversion I find the flac more incisive, even harsh, a little forward maybe, on the other hand the wav file is more refined without loosing nothing, more subtle, more ambient. I like more the wav but probably it depends on your system and taste.

Talking about 24bit/96khz files, in my opinion there is no way to compare a 16/44 ripped cd, even if you play it later at 96khz, with the original 24bit/96khz downloaded files. With the original 24bit/96khz files the soundstage is much bigger and the whole sound is easier and fuller. I find this soundstage enormous in the wide and high plane but not in the depth plane which seems a little shorter. Maybe could be my system.

I understand that to get a great sound is a combination of the many parameters the XXHighEnd has. I agree with some other people here, that the parameter with more influence, at least apparently, is the Split file size. I´ve found that in my system 43 is the magic number. Just where the sound starts to be too rich without loosing definition.

Other interesting issue is about InverPh. I don´t see the typical invert phase effect like loosing focus or blurred bass. I´ve found however that the soundstage is bigger with the phase inverted and I don´t feel like loosing any focus. So I keep it on all the time.

Just a final question, could someone tell me how can I get the #4 Engine?. I have two computers, one with Vista and other one with Windows 7. I thought that the engine was system dependent, Vista with #3 and Windows7 with #4 but I have the #3Engine all the time in both systems.

Sorry for such a long post, don´t be afraid the next time I´ll be shorter, being my first post I was eager to share my experiences to learn more about this terrific player.

Thanks in advance and cheers from Madrid.

[PeterSt]

and Great thanks for your kind words.

About Engine#4 : This is available on both Vista and W7. You'll need to select a device that is prefixed with KS: to activate it (and the grayed out field with the Engine# will show it). However, if you don't have any "Kernel Streaming" devices available, well, there won't be any KS: device to select ...
Most probably this will be the case (not available) when you only have the motherboard's HD Audio device available; it just doesn't provide it.

Again, thanks,
Peter

[juanpmar]

I see, a KS device, do you mean the USB interface or the DAC itself?

Thanks

[PeterSt]

Haha, I don't know ! But hopefully you can recognize yourself which is what ? I really can't say that from here.
You can always try and see what happens !
But start with Normal Mode ... that's the least dangerous for hiccups and things.

Peter

[juanpmar]

Ok, now I understand, I can use any of the KS modes: Normal, Special or Adaptive, but with all of them my Engine is just #3, nothing about #4Engine. I use lately Adaptive mode.

[AUDIODIDAKT]

Hi juanpmar,

You can only use adaptive and special mode with KS !?

#3Engine is also #4Engine, so in both cases ks or wasapi, #3Engine is running.

if you doubt you could make a screenshot of your xx settings and post it.

Roy

PS: and welcome to the scene !

[juanpmar]

Hi Audiodidakt,
 
Thanks so much for your help, I wasn´t looking at the complete list of KS devices and yes there is one with KS prefixed. Now I can play with #4Engine. Too many things to look at with this player...ok, the sound makes it worthwhile.

Just a couple of questions:

- How can I see the buffer size in my device?. My Musiland Monitor USD has a window that says ASIO Buffer with 5, 10, 20, 40, 80 and 160 values. If I make a x 100 of these values I get close to the numbers in the Buffer size of the XXHighEnd; as an example 2000 is close to 2048. Is that correct?.
I´m using Adaptive Mode and Q1:1 and when I change the buffer size I can´t tell differences between 2048 and 1024. What should be the differences between higher or lower values

- I can play the music using a preamp or directly with the XXHigEnd. I read in some place that using the Volume affect the sound, in that case would be better to use a preamp, I guess.

Btw, how do you make the screen shots?

[AUDIODIDAKT]

Hey juanpmar,

Hi Audiodidakt,
 
Thanks so much for your help, I wasn´t looking at the complete list of KS devices and yes there is one with KS prefixed. Now I can play with #4Engine. Too many things to look at with this player...ok, the sound makes it worthwhile.

#4Engine (KS) should be better sounding as #3Engine (WASAPI), you have to work out for yourself if you prefer "special" or "adaptive" mode
Special mode is made for low latency playback, which suite me well, for electronic music.
Adaptive mode is more suitable for other music, I guess, higher latency is preferred, like 1024, 2048 samples

Just a couple of questions:

- How can I see the buffer size in my device?. My Musiland Monitor USD has a window that says ASIO Buffer with 5, 10, 20, 40, 80 and 160 values. If I make a x 100 of these values I get close to the numbers in the Buffer size of the XXHighEnd; as an example 2000 is close to 2048. Is that correct?.
I´m using Adaptive Mode and Q1:1 and when I change the buffer size I can´t tell differences between 2048 and 1024. What should be the differences between higher or lower values

ASIO is for WASAPI, so not for kernel streaming you are using with #4Engine.
I imagine Peter is bit busy today, he will get back on the "Musiland Monitor", which I know nothing about.

- I can play the music using a preamp or directly with the XXHigEnd. I read in some place that using the Volume affect the sound, in that case would be better to use a preamp, I guess.

Well its better to not use a pre-amp at all, the volume control in xx software is currently the best option available.
BUT, its can be a bit tedious to work with (getting use to).
Hold your horses on taking the pre-amp out of the chain, aproach this with caution.

Btw, how do you make the screen shots?

In vista, you can use the button "PrtScn" on your upper-right-side of the keyboard, open windows paint then use the paste option in paint.
In W7, you have a nice tool called "Snipping Tool"


Best Regards,

Roy

[Tony S]

Hello juanpmar,

I use the Musiland Monitor 02USD and I have my buffer setting at 1024 which sounds best to me. I like using Adaptive mode with Q1=1 and Q2 and Q3 between 15 and 30 depending on what I am listening too and sometimes Q2 and Q3 is best at zero. I have been experimenting with the SFS setting a little bit and 95 seems to work well and if I start going below 95 I start to lose my bass but really haven't had time experimenting with those settings.

I have been using Scott Endler's passive attenuators for volume control which work well but usually set them at full volume once the amp has warmed-up and use the volume control on XXHighend since it is kind of a pain reaching behind the amp to change the volume. The attenuators do take away from the sound a bit even for a couple of resistors in the signal path. I have run direct from the dac to the amp which sounds great but afraid of some stray noise from Windows blasting through my speakers.

If you have any more questions about the Musiland let me know and I'll try to help out.

Tony

[juanpmar]

Thanks Roy and Tony.

Yes, maybe using the XX volume makes a difference but I agree that must be used with care.

My problem now is if I´m using Wasapi or Asio. The Musiland comes with Asio drivers but it seems that the KS mode is made for Wasapi. Can anyone help to let me know how to use Wasapi with my Musiland?

Thanks, Juan

[AUDIODIDAKT]

I think if xx is set to KS mode (see my pic above KS: Juli@ .......) it should play in KS mode, meaning you have sound.

In that same pic you can see the "device buffer size", use that for changing your driver latency.
I dont know if that overrules your normal Musiland setting.

Dont mix up the KS and Wasapi (-ASIO)

Wasapi is what you had first with #3Engine, KS is what should be used for #4Engine !

[juanpmar]

Ok, the Device I´m using as appear in the litle window is:  KS: Monitor 01 USD [0001] >> #wave and yes, there is sound. If I understand well you Roy, do you mean that if I have sound with the KS mode I don´t have to be aware about Wasapi or Asio?

[AUDIODIDAKT]

Ok, the Device I´m using as appear in the litle window is:  KS: Monitor 01 USD [0001] >> #wave and yes, there is sound. If I understand well you Roy, do you mean that if I have sound with the KS mode I don´t have to be aware about Wasapi or Asio?

Good,

ASIO only runs on WASAPI, you don't use WASAPI for #4Engine so, only focus on Kernell Streaming (KS)

Try some music now, you can still switch between WASAPI (-ASIO) and KS.
And what are your findings ?

Common rules in KS are (user findings):

Adaptive mode @ 1024 or 2048 (4096)
Special mode  @ 48

You can also look for settings in Tony S his signature,
 

[juanpmar]

Yes, I can change between Interfaz SPDIF (4- MUSILAND Monitor 01 USD) and KS: Monitor 01 USD [0001] >> #wave  and automatically change the #3Engine to #4Engine with a change in sound that I have to analyse with more time.

I´ll apply the rules you mentioned to see what happens and post my findings. So far I´m using Adaptive Mode/@2048/Split fs 43.

I´ll check also the Tony settings as he uses Musiland also.

[juanpmar]

Tony, as we both have the Musiland interface I´ve checked your settings and a quick impression is that there is no big difference between 1024 and 2048 but maybe a bit better with 1024.

With the other settings: Q1:1 and Q2-Q3:15-30 and I´ve found the sound a little sibilant. For me looks more natural with Q1:1 and other Qs at 0. Also the fx 2 makes the sound in my system a little brighter. I have to check it with more time though.

SFS setting was 43 with #3Engine, now I have to experiment because #4Engine seems a little dryer. Maybe just 45 would be ok, it´s quite impressive how a number or two more can make a difference.

Would be interesting if other people with Musiland inform on their findings.

[Tony S]

Juanpmar, In my Musiland control panel I have ASIO shut off and I'm using the WDM volume control for the Engine 4 setting. I usually set that to 100%, the Analog slider to 100% or the Digital slider to 100% for SPDIF output when using the Ack Dack and control the volume within XXHighEnd.

Under the Advanced tab in the Musiland control panel I have the SR control set to precision. There have been a few software upgrades with the Musiland and I'm not sure which version you are using but the lastest and I feel the best is the 1.0.10.0. version which I believe came out in July.
I don't use the MU-Bass control.

I few times I have set the SFS to anything below 90 the upper midrange and treble tends to be a bit bright and in your face than I like. I only had brief period to try different SFS settings. I really need a full day of listening to get a better idea of what settings work best. Maybe if I use higher Q settings than I could experiment with lower SFS, not sure yet.

The Q2-3 settings that I have been using in the past can vary depending on what artist I'm am listening too. If some of the music is bass heavy I keep the settings at zero but some earlier recordings with not much gain, I find 15-30 helps give them a little more warmth. There is so much difference from one recording to another which can make it tough to find an ideal setting for me anyway. With those settings, at the time, I had the SFS set at 110.

Hope this helps.

[juanpmar]

Thanks Tony. While XX is playing I turned the Asio on and off and the sound doesn´t change at all. As Audiodidact (Roy) said when you use KS mode there is no use of Asio or Wasapi.

The last discovery I´ve made is to look for the Buffer Size as the Help in the XX says. I´ve found that my Buffer Size is 512 and that makes a big difference on sound when using Adaptive mode that requires exact buffer size. Try the correct Buffer size first, if you don´t have looked for it yet, and later look for the SFS because 90 and upper seems TOO rich for me, although of course it depends on your system. I´m using SFS at 43 and until I found the correct Buffer size the sound was on the bright size but not with the 512Mb setting, now the sound is much more natural.

I´ve played for a while with the Qs but I´ve found that the less distortion is with the typical Q1: 1 and the rest to 0.

[PeterSt]

A small remark from my side :

ASIO is as different as Kernel Streaming and WASAPI. What the three have in common is that they allow "but perfect" playback.
ASIO is not supported by XXHighEnd, and thus any ASIO buffers won't do a thing (I never made it, because I don't like the sound coming from ASIO, which again has its own character).

Roy may have referred to something like ASIO4ALL which is an ASIO emulator for devices which don't support ASIO. So, ASIO is indeed to be supported by the device (Pro devices always do).

Peter

[simpsimon]

Hi Peter, just upgraded to z-3 and have a problem.  Every time I go to play a song I get the message "XXEngine3.exe has stopped working".  Any idea as to what I may be doing wrong?  I've uninstalled and reinstalled, rebooted etc and get the same message.

Thanks,
Bill Saimond

[PeterSt]

Hi Bill,

What happens if you set the Split File Size (settings Area) to 12 ?

If that doesn't help, edit the SFS.ini file in your XX folder, and change the 11 in the beginning of the file to 00.
Does that help ?

In either case after this we must see further.

Peter

[simpsimon]

Hi Peter, I'll try what you suggested.  One other thing I noticed.  When I unzip the files to my C Drive, both the XXHighEnd.exe and Hotkey shortcut icons have little shields attached to them.  They have the shape of a Knights shield.  Does this bring anything to mind.  Oh, I sent you the same message about my problem in a new post today.  I wasn't sure if you would get this one that I sent yesterday due to my inexperience with your forum.

Thanks,
Bill


Yahoo!!!!  It worked.  I did both of the above ie changed split file size to 12 and changed the 11 to 00 in the sfs.ini file.  Sounds great.  I have a question though.  Which is better, a low split file size like 12 or a higher one between 50 and 100 (my son Tony uses 50)?  My computer has a quad processor with 8 gigs of RAM.

Thanks again,
Bill

[PeterSt]

Hey Bill, great you managed.

What you actually first should do is try the SFS.ini at 11 again, but leave the SFS itself at 12 (this is what I sort of suggested).
Notice this is merely to find out whether your PC can't cope with the new "11" functionality or something else is the matter.

Next about the SFS size ... this is the typicle subject nobody could make definite conclusions about. This is why the "11" functionality emerged ... to eliminate the differences between the SFS settings.

So, when you can still play with SFS.ini set to 11, try to increase the SFS setting itself and just try to perceive differences.
If "11" doesn't work fot you, just do the same. But now I can guarantee that there *will* be differences. Try to find the setting you like best. 65 would be a good figure.

And oh, if possible, please put some data in your sig (can be similar to mine) so we know what you're using and all (XP, Vista, etc.). At least I can't remember that for everybody.

Peter


Edit :
PS: Sorry forgot to answer on the shields ... which answer I don't know anyway. But Christoffe (below) seems to know more about it.

[christoffe]

When I unzip the files to my C Drive, both the XXHighEnd.exe and Hotkey shortcut icons have little shields attached to them.  They have the shape of a Knights shield.  Does this bring anything to mind. 

did you install the TuneUp Utillities

[simpsimon]

Hi Peter, I played with all the settings today and noticed that if the second digit in the SFS.ini file is a 1, I get the xxengine3.exe stopped working notification.  Thus 00, 10 and 20 work fine and 01, and 11 don't .  With 00, 10 and 20, I can raise my split file setting to 110 with no problems.  I did notice also that, with my computer, I can't run in the "Special" mode unattended no matter what Q1 setting and with the buffer at its 4096 highest.  I am running 64 bit Vista, with 8 gigs of RAM and a Quad processor.  Still need to play more to get the best sound I can from my computer and hopefully approach vinyl warmth.

Christoffe, what do you mean by TuneUp Utilities?

Thanks,
Bill

[sergero]

Hello everyone  
I think I have to post it here .....I have just registered here today but spent few days listening to my new software player......demo version yet ( I am going to purchase it this week )....XXHighEnd....so what can i say....from the very first moment when i have compared it to foobar I hear huge improvement in SQ.......and this just brings so my joy to my everyday life...lol
I wanna thank Peter for all his efforts ( i have read CA tread forum too ) in designing this player and I hope to try not beta version someday too
i am running XXHE on external hard drive ( music folder is at the same hdd too )  via esata connected to my pc : XP 32 bit Q9550 2Gig ram through ASUS Xonar D1 soundcard analogue connected to NAD amp.......and i love this sound already
Should i call you Peter the Great now?)))

Regards from Russia,
Sergei

[PeterSt]

Dear Sergei,

Thank you very much, and nice very to hear.

But let's stick to the Alexanders to be Great. Not me.
Well, later maybe. Haha.

Kind regards, and welcome of course !
Peter

[Gerard]

Dear Sergei,

Thank you very much, and nice very to hear.

But let's stick to the Alexanders to be Great. Not me.
Well, later maybe. Haha.

Kind regards, and welcome of course !
Peter

No no, No Alexander the Great!!

You have the name "Saint Peter" already!    (That name has been giving to you by someone) (Do not remember who)

    

[sergero]

.....Saint Peter.......sounds not bad also.....but then he should move to Saint Peterbourg probably 

[Gerard]

.....Saint Peter.......sounds not bad also.....but then he should move to Saint Peterbourg probably 

hahahaha mmmmm yes that i guess he did!   

[PeterSt]

Haha. Well, als long as you all don't forget that I'm only your "tool".

So, it can't hurt to mention once in the few months that it is *you all*who create this.
Can't be done by one single person ...

Peter (due saint ? mwah)

[Gerard]

Haha. Well, als long as you all don't forget that I'm only your "tool".

So, it can't hurt to mention once in the few months that it is *you all*who create this.
Can't be done by one single person ...

Peter (due saint ? mwah)

Well for me and i am sure for many others too you are much more than just a tool!! 

It is time for a  once again!!!!!