glitch at end of track

[helicon]

Hi.
Innstalled 0.9z-2 this evening. Sounds better:)
But at the very end of a song, there is a little glitch, and this is very annoying.
use engine3, all q to 0.
I am new to xxhighend, used foobar before, so do not understand how everything works.
thanks, Per Arne, norway

[PeterSt]

Hi there Per Arne,

Before proceeding with this, can you tell me what you used to rip the albums which exhibit this ?
And what is your "Split File size" setting (Settings Area) ?

Thank you - and welcome of course !
Peter

[helicon]

I don`t think it is because of any ripping prossess. I used engine 3 in earlier versions, and it worked just fine.
my split is 100mb

[PeterSt]

What is your "DAC Needs" setting ? (24 or 32)

And what do you use for ripping ?

Please answer my questions, or otherwise I'm in the blind.

[helicon]

dac needs settings are 32.
Use ripstation micro for ripping

[PeterSt]

Ah, thank you very much.

Ok, can you recognize that you NEVER hear such a glitch in the middle of a track which is, say 4 minutes or longer ?

[PeterSt]

In the mean time ... did you try the various Core Appointment settings ?

Please note : if that helps, I am not saying "so use that setting in the future", but I need to know it in order to find what can be the matter. So, as I think now this must be related to your system and settings somehow, or otherwise I would have dozens of these complaints, and I don't have any. It *is* recognizeable though. One thing which springs to my mind : maybe your disk where the music is on spins down too early. IOW, it has to spinup at a next track, but might do that just too late.
Many other things can be the matter, and it's a bit of a difficult subject. In either case you can always blame me.

Peter

[helicon]

yes, it glitches in the middle of a song.
You may be right, it can be my system?
I experienced that xxhighend uses more cpu than other mediplayers I have tried.
But, can it help to innstall one of the earlier versions?

[PeterSt]

That may help, because things change all the time. But it wouldn't be the solution.

But about your CPU ... It really shouldn't be more than 2-4% with 32/192 playback. If you see more, something may be wrong in that area.

What processor/PC do you use ?
Soundcard/DAC ?


But hey, since you now tell that it's in the middle of a track just the same, lower the File Split size and you will see that it helps. Maybe set it to 70, or to 30 to test whether it really matters, and then go up again.

Don't forget the Core Appointment settings, because they are the most crucial in an underpowered system.

If nothing helps, try Q1 at 4 or so. Maybe higher. It will change the sound as well, but for now it's only for testing. Ok ?

[helicon]

2gb ram, 2.20ghz intel celeron, vista 32
what is this core appointment setting? Should I set it to "sceme 1"? I used "high" on player prio, still glitches.
the q`s must be at 0, because of sound quality, that is why we use xxhighend, because of the sound
but tried also setting the file size split to 30 and 70, MORE glitches?

[PeterSt]

More glitches ? ah, that's good. That prooves that something's defenitely wrong. And it is your Celeron ... If one processor can't do these things it is the Celeron. You could try Scheme-3 though, set the Player Prio to the lowest possible and the Thread Prio to Real Time (maybe less if you run into other throubles because of this). And best for SQ is to use Unattended Playback.

When it helps, don't forget to set back the Split File size.

[helicon]

Hi Peter!
did what you told me to, and it works.
I will not call you a genies yet, but a highend cd player for 72euro, that`s makes me itch my head.

[PeterSt]

Haha, good. And thanks.

[samda04]

Hi Peter,

Since I have a new laptop (Intel core i7) I hear glitches as well, at the end of each track. As well, it says "End of track" again....sometimes, sometimes not (nothing of these problems on my old laptop with same settings). New: can't set Processor Core App. Scheme (says "Undermol"). Could that be the reason?

[PeterSt]

It can, because the Appointment Schemes divide tasks better.
But I wouldn't be too sure about it ...

Did you also change OS ? if so, from which to which ?

Do you now use different music storage means ?

Peter

PS:
Let me know (per email) when you need a new Activation Code.

[samda04]

Only difference is that the storage is connected via usb 2 in stead of e-sata (no e-sata on my laptop!). So may be have to use usb-3? (usb 2 would be quick enough?) OS is same (W7 Ultimate etc) and I used my laptop-code you gave me in the past (may be not correct activated? )

[PeterSt]

If you see the "undemo" it won't be activated.

USB3 ? well, that should help theoretically (if you have the connection on that laptop to begin with).

I merely think you will be having a problem with using an USB connected DAC and the USB connected source (disc).
You may try this :

Denote "Copy to XX Drive" in Settings. Now you MUST use Unattended, or otherwise this won't help a thing.
And, XXHighEnd must be on the internal hdd ...

Let me know,
Peter

[samda04]

Hi Peter,

Unfortunately nothing helped against glitches...tried everything you suggest. Installation (this was all right) on C, (also the XX-Data folder). For testing, I copied one music file direct to the ssd, but the same problem. So usb-speed seems no issue. After activating (yes, it wasn't yet, sorry!) I could change Appointment settings, but there is no difference, with unattended playing also not. Changed splitfile to lower settings, no result (mem. organisation both trying to mixed or mixed contiguous). And of course the Q1-setting (from 6 tot 14), no result. It's strange, is'nt it. Just can't get it why the glitches appears (also during playback but most on the end).

[PeterSt]

What about Minimze OS ?
Of course this can only go when Activated.

[samda04]

Unfortunately nothing worked , minimized os wont't even restart automatically (hangs with XX) en manually restart after that result in incorrect min. os (not looks like, although XX says it IS min. os, in the past this function worked twice or somewhat).

But playing glitchfree, cant't see the reason what's the matter now, I tried so far as I know everything. Also spdif isn't glitchfree, although a little les. Also, very often tracks will not continue (says: "end of track")

I hope anybody can give me a hint to solve these things.

[PeterSt]

What about fireing up Recource Monitor (from within Taskmanager is the easiest -> button).

I can't tell you what to look for, although you could look for something which translates as "postponed interrupts" (it's named differently for sure).

But otherwise you may be able to see what's busy, unexpectedly, on disc or cpu.

[samda04]

It seems, so far I noticed right now, that the monitor Aida64 one of the cause of the problem was, so speaking in terms of resources, it influences the sound apparently (was not on my old laptop).

Nevertheless, it gives still glitches, only just before the end of the track (the moment loading the next track in the background, isn’t it?) with flac and wave, and ONLY with high def. sound (24/96 in my situation). So what’s up that makes it, it wouldn’t be the specs of the machine…only 3-4% processor usage during playback. Any idea?

[PeterSt]

Unattended solves it (100% sure). That is, when it is really so that it is near the end of a track only.
Minimized OS is not needed in this case (as of how things are now).

What the real problem is ? ...
Ehm, dig further ?

At this stage of the problem, take care that your discs stay awake long enough (set it to 10 minutes or so). Just to try it.

Peter

[samda04]

Unattended playing solves the glitch-issue, indeed. Plus a better sound quality (minimize OS won't work since XX hangs while trying to restart). First I heard one or more glitches (better: GAP's!) on the end of any track, even in the very beginning of next track. In any situation I closed Aida64 (monitoringprogram on background), or I have constantly small glitches (actually strange, this wasn't on my previous laptop). But if I'm doing as describe, iIt's now free of glitches. Seems that XX had to be familiar with my new laptop??! It IS really an (error) sensitive program...sorry to say that....but sensitive is what you need in music, isn't it  And that's worth it!

Thanks for your support.

[PeterSt]

Error sensitive ? mwah, maybe. But maybe not.
Difficult to explain of course, but some (players) let you prepare the tracks off line to next do similar (for good SQ). That is another way. The XXHighEnd way is to make it convenient for you at the same time. BUT, this expects an on-par machine throughout, and I don't think I ever said that laptops are that ...

That is sad by itself of course, and we could say that I am to blame for it (try to squeeze out too much of things undoable), but indeed ... it *is* about SQ.
And that conveniency factor (ok, for what's *that*'s worth of course ! )

Regards,
Peter

PS: There should be "something" in that laptop that prevents Minimized OS Mode. Again sad, because that Mode just makes a laptop quite "on-par !".
But then there's also my anouncement (from quite a while back by now) that Minimized OS was not optimized for laptops yet. Why ? because there's so much sh*t in them !

[samda04]

On-par machine? What's that? And what kind of "sh*t" do you mean?  For me a laptop is a full Personal Computer with (almost) identical specs these days, any program must run on it, I think so. Also XXHighend and all his possibilities and tweaks. What makes a laptop different? Mobo, processor, memory, harddisk,....

[PeterSt]

Differences (in brief ) :

Processor (energy saving stuff);
Slow disc subsystem;
All you can think of that saves energy (which thus has been applied)

but mainly :

The piles of sh*t indeed that gets loaded onto such a thing, most often beyond your knowledge. So, install the most normal OS on this (thus, not from the manufacturer) and that's all gone. Then it is only the OS itself, and "we" can tweak that sufficiently. But, hope you get that normal OS running, which normally is far from the case; No problem for anyone with good experience, but otherwise ...
And the least you will be doing is looking for drivers this, drivers that - it's really a pain. But, of course doable when you are that experienced Win guy.

Small example of my own Toshiba I have here (not the worst brand for laptops) :
Boot time is ages, after that disc light stays on for 3-4 minutes at catching up, and all is as sluggish as hell. It will play XXHighEnd though, but that's about it.
Then I spend 4 hours or so at removing all what was not necessary, with the main problem of "does it keep on running for the normal job ?" (what about 100 reboots for that), but when it was done it was almost as fast as a desktop. So, you *can* be right.
Note though that this job is far from finished, because laptops tend to "need" WiFI and we don't like WiFi. But at least the grayed out button for that is in XX Settings already ...

Regards,
Peter

[samda04]

My laptop (Acer 5750G/Core i7 2670QM) isn't running anything more then my own W7 (not the factory-Premium), lightweight antivirus and up-to-date drivers and so on. Energy-savings are off, ssd inside (boot les than 15 sec), wifi standard off (use of LAN-cable). Playing often without supply connected. So mine is really "designed" to run XX...

[PeterSt]

Ehm, too bad it isn't playing well ?

Could you, please, dig up some posts about similar but from a desktop ? But count out the early W7 days, okay ?

But I said it, XXHighEnd is to blame. And it won't go otherwise either ...

Peter

[samda04]

Ehm....no, it actually isn't playing well, as simple that, still GLITCHES (better: GAPS) at the end of tracks, especially with high-res recordings. A mystery to me, why on this machine and not to my others.

As said, only unattended solves this.

[PeterSt]

Ok, let's try to solve this. Remember, try ...

Can you show me the CPU graph from that period of silence towards the end of the track ? (Attended)

In the mean time tell me what the Appointment Scheme is you used there, and what the SFS size is. Also, use 16/44.1 and tell me the Upsampling Rate.

Let's see further from there ...
Peter

[samda04]

I keep on trying with several settings (all attended). The problem is only there with high resolution playback, so I test it with these (flac) files, native input = 96 Khz. My output-sample rate is 96 Khz, the dac's standard (usb).

The good news is that I found glitch free settings on my system:

- Proc. Core App. Scheme = 2
- PlayerPrio = Normal
- ThreadPrio = RealTime
- Clock Res. - nothing
- SFS setting = 36

The setting "PlayerPrio" set it to Normal instead of Realtime is crucial to give glitch free playback, definitely. Switched several times, glitches (dis)appears again.
But after reboot, and try this again, both settings (normal/realtime) played glitch free (??). Also, set proc. scheme app. to scheme 2 gives better dividing over 4 cores, maybe this helps too (see graphs). But today I saw another graph, more divided  to all cores (with same No app. setting).

So everything seems to be solved for now. Test results gives not always the same results, so sometimes it's hard to conclude the real cause of the problem. But generally, it's clear where it came from now: combination of settings as describes above.

[PeterSt]

Two things I can see :

1. The speed of your disc subsystem is too slow.
(btw, how is that SSD from your sig related ? ... this is a laptop, right ?)

2. I assume I see peaks of the track parts which load. Well, they should reach 100% and they don't.
Are you sure your CPU isn't limited (to 40% or so) ?
See below picture for how it should look like. Those peaks to the top should be there.

Might you post more graphs, please take care that the refresh frequency is set to "High".

Anyway, good that you achieved something !
Peter

[PeterSt]

Also, you don't seem to play in Straight Contiguous Memory Mode;
That won't make things faster ...

[samda04]

My disc subsystem is connected by high-speed usb 3, also the processor speed is unlimited. The processor don't need to reach 100%, peak-loads are simply not high enough for the i7 processor, that's what I assume. My previous laptop reached 100% indeed, but that was a dual core with much less specs.

[samda04]

Straight Contiguous Memory Mode is on now, will test it later.

[PeterSt]

The processor don't need to reach 100%, peak-loads are simply not high enough for the i7 processor, that's what I assume.

Haha, then you assume wrong. So, when we can agree that your cores don't reach the 100%, then there is 100% sure a problem.
I'm talking XXHighEnd of course, and not some random other program.

[samda04]

Please tell me what to do to make it peak to 100%. I set in Processor Powermanagement the min-max processor state both to 100%....Always the full clockspeed (and turbo when necessarily).

[PeterSt]

Good question. Wrong scheme ? something with battery vs. mains connected ? BIOS ? some scheme from the particular brand somewhere ?
Btw, I assume the laptop is mains connected ? when not, chances are fair that it won't even allow itself the 100%.

Maybe you can deliberately squeeze down the max and see whether it makes a difference ?

In the end things can get more complicated, like for example the memory (bus) being so slow that the cpu is always waiting.

[samda04]

As said, any program that needs a full load of the processor will work, up to 100% load.....inclusive turbo-boost (quad-core, 2,8 Ghz). Really a fast processor. Only XXHighend won't do that 100% peaks, if needed, apparently. But the most important is it works, without those glitches, and I'm happy again!

[samda04]

100% processor-load was all right all the time....Just changed the refresh rate of my graph to see this 

By the way: using Straight Contiguous Memory Mode requires me a Windows reboot, on each first use of XX. Is this normal?

[PeterSt]

No. That means it just doesn't work at all I think ...

Look here : http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1547.0

If that doesn't help you, search for "privileges" and there will be quite some more. Ok ?

Regards,
Peter