Does buffering time (latency) affact SQ in your system?

[Windows X]

Well, I wouldn't hold it back then.

1. I know .NET is for only UI and act as controller in MVC model. I know which part actually run the playback system. It sets out playback system to run at highest possible of priorities. But why .NET? Don't you know safe code has a lot of limitations and you blame it's Windows 7's fault for it.....Windows 7 is best OS for audio but that's for WASAPI (it even lifted something off and improved something for that if you care to look deep enough) not kernel streaming controlled from .NET controller. I know you did check and compare WASAPI but you missed a lot of things there. They use same libraries but system manages it in different ways.

2. I know you found your way from various kernel streaming mode with your experiments. And people like that usually fond of their discoveries and think that was for the best. Until they witness the greater ones and admit their defeat to get better.

3. I DID hear all of your best XXHighEnd configurations. I DID stated that people whom I know including me heard the comparison between paid version XXHighEnd and $15k CD Player. And result for golden ears was defeat of XXHighEnd in many aspects. I DID throw away all theories for listening tests and verdict is XXHighEnd couldn't beat standalone average $15k CD Player, let alone $30-50k separated CD transport/DAC/clock system. It could be Weiss' firewire fault for that though but I didn't own one right now so making illegal test is out of question.

4. I'm now aware that your ears aren't adapted into real hiend system.....yet. This happened to me a lot before taking real hiend system seriously up to purchasing $60-70k system in home and listen to it allmost all days of everyday. Any discussion between us is futile until you really understand the capability of $15k CD transport,DAC,clock combined together for $45k for just source system alone.

5. I'm aware you did choose high power computer which sucks at great deal for SQ. cicsmemoryplayer.com is good reference place why you should stay away from it. If you don't get it then you don't know what hiend is at all.

6. From my tests against Esoteric/DCS/Emm labs, latency above 2ms couldn't even stand a chance against these at all. Its transparency and linearity aren't bearable sound in this field. Most people who owns $300-500k and listen to them seriously will just walk away saying it makes no difference for them between this and iPhone/car/public listening. They both couldn't give them what they expect at this level.

7. All my so called theories are written with purpose to backup my experiments results not to lead it to conclusion without real experiments. Try experiments XXHighEnd against real hiend system like $100k or above if you can with your own ears against reference level of CD Player or transport. I'm pretty sure the result is quite clear if the system parts are properly chosen and well set for highest fidelity.

Until you get your real hiend system, we'll talk about this again but I did setup proper WASAPI system that beats XXHighEnd in SQ and performance. It even works fine for playback at 1ms latency of 24/192 with cheapest netbook performance. I'm not tryign to wage flame war or trolling for anything. This is just what I found from what I heard in $50-100k system with all possible configurations of computer source including paid version of XXHighEnd/Amarra/HQPlayer (in trial mode).

If you're kind enough, lend me test version that has all features and I'll give you honest result against real giants with RME HDSP AES-32 configuration. I'd like to buy for a try if UI can be more acceptable enough for me. But since I don't intend to keep on using it, buying for only testing only doesn't sound wise for best mode. If there's better card, let me know. I also want to beat up CD transport so badly though.

P.S. I'd like to get things straight and done without delay of throwing nice words around and get to know nothing in return. If you're the real deal, you should set things straight and fast too. I don't like acting like I'm being open-minded while inside I made up mine. If things we see aren't the same, yell it, kick them in until we both set it straight for true facts to reach conclusion.

[manisandher]

Any discussion between us is futile until you really understand the capability of $15k CD transport,DAC,clock combined together for $45k for just source system alone.

I contend that even a $45K disc-based digital source isn't good enough. My reference is analogue going through my Pacific Microsonics AD/DA. Once a digital source can play a file recorded from analogue and match the same analogue source going through the AD/DA in real-time, then I know I'm there.

Oh and Windows X, don't throw a $$$ amount back at me...

Mani.

[christoffe]

4. I'm now aware that your ears aren't adapted into real hiend system.....yet. This happened to me a lot before taking real hiend system seriously up to purchasing $60-70k system in home and listen to it allmost all days of everyday. Any discussion between us is futile until you really understand the capability of $15k CD transport,DAC,clock combined together for $45k for just source system alone.

Hi,

you should have a look to your arguments from a different angle.

We have to invest at least  $45k to get a similar SQ, so the return on investment is ............... , or you have unlimited access to the Bank of America.

best

Joachim

[Windows X]

OK. Please return to the point. My point is computer transport couldn't beat decent $15k CD transport or higher. Why? Because people listen to that level aren't satisfied with it and I'm trying to point out why. I agree this may sound like throwing money in to hear or so but that's sad facts for foolish hiend audiophile lust.

I tried to explain in words from both forum discussion in other places and face to face but it's really futile without actual comparison because the gap of perception is too wide. I apologize to leave it unconcluded resorting to throw money into explanations.

[Telstar]

3. I DID hear all of your best XXHighEnd configurations. I DID stated that people whom I know including me heard the comparison between paid version XXHighEnd and $15k CD Player. And result for golden ears was defeat of XXHighEnd in many aspects. I DID throw away all theories for listening tests and verdict is XXHighEnd couldn't beat standalone average $15k CD Player, let alone $30-50k separated CD transport/DAC/clock system. It could be Weiss' firewire fault for that though but I didn't own one right now so making illegal test is out of question.

With what reference-level DAC did you hear that?
Besides, theoretically an integrated CDP is better than two separates, but they have to make more money giving you two boxes with two psu and lots of metalwork, otherwise is not highend

You couldnt have tried ALL possible combinations hardware, software AND DAC, as you claim.
If you spend some time studying the stuff (like i did 2 years ago, yes 2 years), you would realize that ALL means to connect a DAC to a computer are intrinsecally worse than the transport-dac connection in a CDP, hence the latency cannot be lower.

Telstar.

[Windows X]

I used to believe integrated CDP is better than separated as integrated amplifier is better than separated preamp and power. It would have too much contradiction of separated preamp and power is actually better than integrated and CD player is better than transport/dac combo...wait...some people also said preamp isn't even neccessary if D/A has volume control.

Each to their own. Mine fitting may not fit yours and mine misfit could be your favorite. My transport comparison that computer audio being inferior to CD transport aren't actually from me myself but dissatisfaction from people who love to throw a lot of $$$ to CD transport bashing today's presented computer audio. To be honest, I feel no less satisfying from my computer transport than Esoteric P-05. The gap isn't too wide to conclude being out of league for me but it is for crazy people who dare enough to invest $300k on their system.

Yea. It's a fact for crazy people like them. And I can't argue with it since I heard the difference too in their system (in wider gap than my system).

[PeterSt]

Wait ... Do I perceive another perspective here maybe ?

Maybe (or hopefully) we talk about the wrong subject all the time ... So, let's have another attempt ...

OF COURSE you can't just have any random DAC and expect it to operate as an integrated CDP. But okay, you know that, because a P-05 / D-05 combo wouldn't be all that much different. But of course there's all the difference in the world where it comes to noise and PC's and stuff. The interaction, the speed, the latency ...
Well, you asked about my DAC, and I ignored it. Sort of. I mean, when it is about the $$$$ department, I would. But now I'm not sure ...

The commercial DAC I have available around these minutes, is made to be world's best (and could easily cost a car for that matter). It has been made with all one could think of to be the best, and there's no single compromise in there. There is nothing in there which is not new and of course was made for PC connection. It's not synchronous, not asynchronous but direct as h*ll, and therewith carries an overall net jitter of better than 0.5ps. Phase noise better than 120dBc/Hz at 100Hz. It's 24/384 filterless, the filter provided by software (XX) which does not ring a single sample, and is phase-true throughout the frequency range. THD+N is 0.0019% in the audio band and better than 0.004% all the way up to 192KHz. Don't compare this with e.g. Sabre figures, because those are for periodic waves while I talk about music measurement here. That's why I call all OS distortion machines (sorry for your DAC ), and it is physically audible with normal music examples I have available here.

Is that maybe what you wanted to hear ?
Just like this is not about stupid $$ it is also not about stupid figures, but they DO matter. In the end it is about the sound and it is exactly this why your system will always loose. Always. I'll even dare to bet you a 1000 $ from which you can easily pay the ticket to get here. If you'd win. If not, no problem, because you'll go home with this DAC and be a happy man. And a few less $$ which is a good thing. Haha. But bring your CDP and DAC.

If you don't mind, I don't use an analogue volume control - it only kills. That's why it's not on this DAC either. I do use the digital volume from XX though, and it's the best there is. It is lossless (may it say something to you), and maybe you can find one somewhere else, but I don't think so.

But maybe you didn't want to hear something like this either.
Let me know if the bet is on.

Peter


PS: For others : sorry about these stupid posts. Maybe just skip them.

[Windows X]

Peter, if you feel offended in my words, I do apologize then. I'm trying to say as representatives of people who use $300k or so system and today's solutions in market and popular website aren't enough for people like them. I didn't meant to say your website is not popular but talking about website for most people like them. I feel stunned and shocked from their remarks too. Actually, it's worse than what I said in here. Some may say it for being realistic and some may add sarcastic depending on their mood lol. But thanks to them, I managed to put on my guts to make it through stable 1ms with proper optimization for best sonic preferences in my system.

If you get this serious, I'm rooting for you to show your system in RMAF and prove them how in the world they're so wrong in treating serious computer audio being hiend. Challenge your system to popular EMM Labs/Esoteric/DCS/Soulution/Spectral and so on that CD is REAL DEAD.

With my limited resources, I couldn't overturn their way of listening, maybe you can do it man. And it would be my kudos when you succeed

[Josef]

I did setup proper WASAPI system that beats XXHighEnd in SQ and performance.

Rather then being theoretical - can we get practical?
E.g. Would you care to share how you configured a superior WASAPI system so everybody can test it as well?

[Windows X]

Well, sorry. I took that back. It's just my system and what I compare with isn't even paid license version. I'm hoping to hear direct comparison with dedicated XXHighEnd soon before making proper judgement again. It's really way too early for me to test software that's not designed to run on the same environment.

I couldn't get trial version of XXHighEnd to run at 1ms with the same hardware configuration that I believe it's for the best so different design may yield better result. It was too rash of me to prejudge. Sorry.

[christoffe]

PS: For others : sorry about these stupid posts. Maybe just skip them.

Hi friends,

I do agree. It is like a kindergarden.

best

Joachim

[Josef]

I couldn't get trial version of XXHighEnd to run at 1ms with the same hardware configuration that I believe it's for the best

Then maybe you can share how you measure 1ms latency i.e. what settings you are using with your WASAPI player and what settings you tried with XX so maybe somebody can help with latter? 

[Windows X]

I haven't heard of properly configured XXHighEnd system myself but just opinions from other people. I realized how foolish I am to mixed up my judgement with others before hearing ones for myself and feel ashamed to it. To prevent any further misconduct, I won't give anymore remarks on XXHighEnd or anything that could relate to it until I can hear properly configured ones with my own ears.

[christoffe]

I haven't heard of properly configured XXHighEnd system myself but just opinions from other people. I realized how foolish to mixed up my judgement with others before hearing ones for myself and feel ashamed to it. To prevent any further misconduct, I won't give anymore remarks on XXHighEnd or anything that could relate to it until I can hear properly configured ones with my own ears.

Hello Mr. X,

where is the next bar?

best

Joachim

[Windows X]

Yaa. Maybe I'm still drunk. Gotta find some medicine to cure my hangover