Phasure NOS1 Waiting List

[PeterSt]

Dear all,

I just sent everyone who ever showed interest in the Phasure NOS1 an email. This email is about the polite question whether you are still interested, and furthermore contains the preliminary specs of the DAC. The latter is a small privilege for those eagerly waiting, but later I will post them here too.

I tried all my best to dig up your interest from this forum, PM's and emails, but had to use search terms to my imagination to find all. And so it is very easy to have missed some people. For everyone I found, I registered the first date I could find about it, and so emerged a First In First Out waiting list. The email has been sent to the email address known to the forum (the one you used for registering). If that is not valid anmymore and you are sure you should be on that list, please send an email to sales @ you know where. Title it "Phasure NOS1 Waiting List". Also, if you did not receive the email but are sure you ever exposed your interest, please dig up where that was (forum, PM, email, other ?) and refer to it in the email. It is important for the position on the list.

I'd like you to respond the latest next Monday (Dec. 6) the end of the day (11:59pm, and make that your time) so we can make the sequence of the list a kind of definite.


A small problem

In the mean time, a small problem arose. Or at least it seems it has;
I always thought that the now planned first 20 would be sufficient to satisfy the currently known group of interestees. But to my surprise I could dig up 47 of you. On one side I guess quite some will be off the list because of no interest anymore, but on the other side I'm quite sure I didn't find everyone. My point is : where we set up all for a first 100, it looks like there's not much headroom before the 100 is fully used, while I thought or planned to survive the next 6 months with that. Of course it depends a lot on how much "raving" will emerge after the first have receive their NOS1, and if not much, all will be ok by nature. But what will happen when the raving is there ?

The first rather serious problem is that -while I have always tried to obtain the PCM1704U-K chips availble (at a doable price of 30 euros pp)- and while a last available batch of 528 pieces is coming to us half of December, the next available batch will be June or July 2011. Yes, I saw that coming allright, but with in mind 80 not yet sold units that feels different from 50 or less, depending on how many people I missed (and how many not wanting to be on the list anymore of course). There are more sources to get the chips, but the price will easily be 40 euros per piece without import duties (the mentioned 30 euros is net / without), and I don't like to add 100 or more euros to the sales price, but also don't like to loose that myself (really not much marging being there).
In the end it's not only the D/A chips but more stuff which just can't be obtained fast because they have to be produced on demand, and I know from experience it can take 4 or 5 months for certain parts.

Additionally, you can imagine that I won't order parts for a next batch of 100 or more units right at this moment, not knowing what will really come from it. I mean, if you calculate half of the sales price to be labor costs -all is hand soldered and assembled and not in China- (and some margin allright) and the other half is the parts costs, you can calculate the investment I'm doing right on this moment already for the 100 units. I have no problems with that, but you can imagine that I first want to see what is coming from it all. Is everybody raving ? no problem. But if not, I rather keep that money in the form of money, and not in the form of nice blue boxes. You will understand.

So, what I expect now, is a gap of yet unknown precise time in between the first 100 units delivered and any next batch. After that we know what we're at, and it won't happen again (saying : if we can predict 1000 units for the remainder of 2011, they will be there, no matter the investment and no matter delivery times because we just order parts for the 1000 in one go).
In a month's time (maybe two) we should know how things really go, knowing in advance that a sufficient amount of people will have expressed their feelings about the Phasure NOS1.

Thank you for your understanding,
Peter

[manisandher]

Hey Peter,

I really enjoyed reading the NOS1 Specs doc. Facinating stuff.

In the document you say "... your speakers should have sufficient headroom to allow for the NOS1 output." I'm assuming that this is something we'll just have to test for by listening to the NOS1 in our respective systems. How might this distortion sound?

Mani.

[Marcin_gps]

8 x 1704, very nice and I wanted to buy Audio-GD
Besides, I understand now how I could play with KS special mode on ESI drivers, while drivers from other vendors failed.
Looking forward  to first reviews.

Good luck,
Marcin

[Jack]

Hello Peter
I hope all is well with you & yours.
I guess my "show of interest" in the NOS1 was too subtle!
Where's MY e-mail!
In anticipation...
Jack

[PeterSt]

Oh Jack, I am so sorry. But no damage done. But, please let me know where your interest hangs, so I can dedicate that date (hence position) to you ! (email, PM, forum, date, link, photo, beer)

Peter

[pedal]

Hello Peter
I hope all is well with you & yours.
I guess my "show of interest" in the NOS1 was too subtle!
Where's MY e-mail!
In anticipation...
Jack

Oops. Sorry about that Jack, but you will have to wait untill next summer!   

[Jack]

Pedal
I am reliably informed that the UK is having an early summer this year & it's going to be xxtra hot!
But thanks for your concern!
Jack

[PeterSt]

Additionally, Pedal just offered his place on the list for yours. Isn't he a great guy ?
Well, I got this strange email very early in the morning, and although I couldn't read it much, I guess he offered just that.

[Jack]

Yes Peter
I love it here, what a great guy indeed. Is there a button I can press to shake his hand!
Jack

[pedal]

Oops. Seems my joke backfired terribly here 

[PeterSt]

I just received an email from Jack;
A nice poem will stimulate him sufficiently enough to be as nice as you are.

?


PS: It is "Sinterklaas Evening" here, so logically it has to be on rhyme.
Below is one of the greatest "house" albums. But only for dutch. We play this every year on Dec. 5. It is amazing how much it improved this year compared to the others. Well, you know ...

[pedal]

I want you, I want you so bad
I want you, I want you so bad
It's driving me mad, it's driving me mad
I want you, I want you so bad
I want you, I want you so bad
It's driving me bad, it's driving me mad
I want you, I want you so bad, NOS1
I want you, I want you so bad
It's driving me mad, it's driving me mad
It's so heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy
I want you, I want you so bad
I want you, I want you so bad
It's driving me bad, it's driving me mad
I want you, I want you so bad, NOS1, I want you
You know I want you so bad,
It's driving me bad, it's driving me mad
Yeah, it's so heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy
I want you, I want you so bad, NOS1, I want you
You know I want you so bad
It's driving me mad, It's driving me bad
Yeah, it's so heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy
I want you, I want you so bad
I want you, I want you so bad
It's driving me mad, it's driving me mad
I want you, I want you so bad, NOS1, I want you
You know I want you so bad, it's driving me mad
It's driving me mad
It's so

[Jack]

Jesus, this guy's got it bad. I can't compete with that. Put him back on the list.....
Happy daze
Jack

[PeterSt]

All,

I only want to say that there's less than 24 hours left before the final list for the first shipment will be made. You knew that ... Ok.
But since I have had no response yet from some people from whom I expected it, *please* don't respond at 5 to 12 and have a 100 questions in the mean time. Some of you clearly will know how much time I spent on answering to those questions, and it really can't be done in a last few minutes. Having questions is your right ! but please be in time with them.
Or accept to be in the second shipment of course (should be close to New Year or just after it). No problem then.

Thanks,
Peter

[Leo]

Just to calm my nerves, just as bad as when as a kid I was waiting for st Nicolas eve, could you give a reply to those that DID send a reply and have no certainty, just plain old fear for the black hole that sucks emails into the unknown, that indeed you received their reply and that they may have some hope to be in the first shipment....

[manisandher]

Marcin, I'm not sure whether Peter still wants to keep the conection type under covers, but a particular type of cable was mentioned in the NOS1 Specs doc under 'Contents of Package'.

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Mani, thanks. Yes, for now still.

Marcin, for now I allowed myself to remove your post. Not because it was inappropriate or something, but because of what Mani suggested. Maybe it was my fault to imply that all the questions could be asked here. But I really meant "by email".

Sorry !
Peter

[Flecko]

Hey, you made it Peter! Congratulations! I am a little excited too, even if I can not order at the moment. I will have to wait until my bank account gets better (maybe in a year or so). I wish you a lot of raving and many orders!
Goodluck!

[PeterSt]

Just to calm my nerves, just as bad as when as a kid I was waiting for st Nicolas eve, could you give a reply to those that DID send a reply and have no certainty, just plain old fear for the black hole that sucks emails into the unknown, that indeed you received their reply and that they may have some hope to be in the first shipment....

Leo, you are completely right. You, as one of the few never asking a question, *thus* never received a reply. Not good.
But you have one now.

Peter

[Leon]

Peter,

I won't be able to purchase your DAC for a while, so "If" I am on your first list, please do not hesitate and give my place to whomever

Still I can't wait to hear how the DAC will perform at my good friend Gerard's place.

Ciao for now
Leon

[PeterSt]

Just to inform you from here ...

Everybody who made it to the list of the first batch (which you all know for over a week), should now have received the Pro-forma.
This is except for two people at this moment, to whom I asked further questions.

One from France, one from Holland.
I hope you will respond soon ...

Thanks,
Peter

[PeterSt]

A strange question maybe ...

Can he who payed under the name "Precision Trading LLC" anounce himself please ? by email would do perfectly.
I don't recognize this name, nor do I recognize the amount payed (although it is DAC-like).

Thanks !
Peter

[Leo]

Hello Peter,
would a trip to Oenen tomorrow be rewarded with a NOS DAC or do you need a bit more time ?

Leo

[PeterSt]

Leo, and all anxiously waiting ...

As we full heartedly intended the beginning of this week (or mayby somewhat earlier), DACs should be shipping last Thursday (yesterday). However, with so much "exporting" fuzz (and really not experienced on it) to 11 countries just at once - in the mean time helping everybody as good as we can here with just that - me arranging for this all and in between some lines testing SPDIF input (didn't work well) as well as SPDIF output (all OK) ... some DACs could have left yesterday. Still they did not, why ?

We run into a problem we just *never* expected. And, because you will never have heard of it, you just as well might not believe it. Still it is so ...

Yesterday at 12am or so the first unit rolled from the band so to speak. Another due an hour later, and so on. What would be left are measurements, and assuming that would be allright, the only thing left would be the SPDIF-Out - really not to do earlier, may something be the matter. Well ...

Something WAS the matter; I was looking at things (through measurement) I never saw before. After two hours I gave up, and since in the mean time the next unit was ready, I took that one. And, exactly the same ! Maybe slightly better, but nothing to call the shipper for. So, obviously I didn't.

On a side note : all land transport has to be called for on day 1, and it is collected at day 2 (hence the next day). Money for air transport wasn't in yet (which can collect the same day when early enough) so I thought to awaiten today (which is Friday, and no shipments will be collected on Saturdays).

What I saw from measurements looked "dangerous" to me, but I decided to leave on DAC one for the remainder of the day, shut it off for the night, and lastly it was switched back on again first thing this morning.
At 10am I picked up measuring again and wonder oh wonder, it was close to right, but still was not quite. Seeing that we put the remaining ready DACs under power (3 I think at that moment) and for the remainder of the day we denoted the times next ready DACs were put under power.

As it is right now we have 2 DACs which I would send out blindly, but the remaining still not. Btw, the latter includes the second one mentioned above, which is quite allright but not on par.

So, what do we have here ? a sheer case of burning in needed, which looks so severe that no measurements can be done - SO BAD.
Btw, I lastly measured one which was under power for 4 hours, this time watched the figures closely just to mention it to you, and distortion is 4% while it should be under 0.0015%. So you see, how can I know whether the end result will be around that 0.0015% or that it maybe stops at 0.005% when it won't be shipped at all ?

As said, two measure allright at this moment (being on for 12 hours at least), and for the remainder we really must wait until tomorrow. And only then it may turn out that something is wrong afterall (like probably that "second one" mentioned -> good figures but not the best noise figures in that case).


Maybe I owe you an explanation why this was never noticed before ...
Well, each time a new PSU (pcb) arrived, DAC the same, everything, I always built over the capacitors. Because as you can expect, I can't live with poor sound for a small month for, say, professional reasons. Also, never more than one part regarding this was changed at any one time, and whether only one is doing this to us, or all of them add up ? we really don't know. The only thing I do know is that apparently this is so, and we just have to wait for it ...

Fot those units ready next Sunday, the shipper will be called on that day, and things will be collected on Monday. This means Tuesday all will ship really (unless Air which will ship on Monday itself), and I didn't see transit times longer than 3 days ...

One last thing may happen : the export documents towards the shipper may cause problems. Why this ? because there is no way to test it dry, so once it is Sunday and all will be brought in in "some" digital system and problems arise ... no one to help at that moment.

I guess all needs a first time, and for us this is one or two of these occasions.
I hope you will except my personal apologizes, especially handed to those who were fast with the money transfer. Luckily most take their time for it, which only may give us some extra time when needed.

Thank you,
Peter


PS: If all goes as should, tomorrow 3 DACs should be ready for those 3 who were about to collect. But at this moment there really are 2. So I can't promise anything. One thing though : I would think twice anyway. At this moment (8:50 pm) there are still 24 queues with an average length of more than 20 kilometers, people probably spending the night on the highway. And it keeps on snowing.
Travel times of over 2 hours per 4 kilomter have been reported ...

[Leo]

Ha Peter,

What a lot of fun this all must be these days of  manufacture and quality control. Just a slow and easy wind-down towards  Christmas for you
If I read your mail correctly it means that I can use the glorious sunny day of tomorrow to come and pick up my DAC !

see you tomorrow !

Leo

[PeterSt]

All you waiting ...

I only want to say that I just sent an email to all those from whom we received the money, including our current expectation of the shipping date. This means that if you not received such an email (or shipping notice otherwise) it will be quite undoable to have your DAC before Christmas. Of course this is related to the DACs not all being ready in the first place, and so we decided to ship in the sequence of receiving the money.


In the mean time (small story) ... we really must think about some different setup for the next batch ...  Imagine :
(and this is sure not to feel sorry for us here, but merely a "justification" of why things take way longer than expected)

First of all, there are all your emails (ok, from some) who after the order wondered about other possibilities. That takes time. Ok, doable.
But next, I decided that we'd hard solder everything instead of using connectors; all has been thouroughly tested, so that can be for the better only. Uhhm, for SQ that is, but not for the process of finishing it all. This is because there are quite some issues here and there, and I can tell you that some take a day to solve. This is because nothing can be exchanged anymore unless all is torne down again. So, in some cases it takes the disassembly of all (which is harder than soldering) and then assemble it again. Worst cases are about not knowing where to look, exchanging one part (meaning tear it all down again and re-assemble), it doesn't help, do the next part the same, etc. Luckily we had only one of such a case, but it just took two days. Two days, where otherwise 10 DACs could have been assembled.

All is also related to that stupid not being able to "look well" because of the necessary burn in. So, this means testing after two days, not ok ? wait another to be sure, test again, to next come to the conclusion that something is wrong. And yes, I have been told already to be stupid about a 100 uV too much noise, but since I know what can be achieved, we'll just exchange the PSU (now) and hope for the better. But wait again, and test again.

We also have more severe cases of the soundcard not wanting to work. Here all stops, but it needs the worst part to be re-done (this is the i2s stuff), to next find out that something else is wrong too ("next", because at first nothing works in such a case, obviously).

Today we came across a new one : all measures beautifully, except for one channel having 2dB output too few. How come ? no idea, but where it is obvious this is the gain stage, and thus this is replaced, it appears not to be it, and thus it should be the DAC itself. How ? no idea. But now that has to be exchanged.

And so it goes on. By now I'm thinking of praying that a unit works.

In the end all these things are fairly normal, and I wouldn't even think much about it myself. Pull of a connector, undo 4 screws, stuff in a replacement and put the connector on again. 4 minutes work maybe, and when it needs 3 of those replacements it takes 12 minutes, and after that you know what the problem is. Not here, because of my stupid decision not to use connectors anywhere.
Also notice that testing the individual elements without connectors takes soldering and de-soldering, but I guess it is the best thing to do the next time. Well, we'll see about that.

What we -at least- will do the next time, is telling that DACs can be bought when they REALLY are ready. And not when we expect them to be. It is just too hectic like this.

So now you know a bit what is going on.
Peter