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Author Topic: Gainclone heaven ?  (Read 375036 times)
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PeterSt
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« Reply #150 on: December 20, 2011, 11:43:23 am »

I just wanted to say : XLR output (stupid !) Inputs eh ?
But you were just ahead of me.

Heeelllp
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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manisandher
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« Reply #151 on: December 20, 2011, 12:03:10 pm »

UPS hasn't arrived yet unhappy

Only one transformer ??? or does it have two secondary's one for each amp?

No, 4 boxes in total - 2x amps and 2x power supplies.

I think I can count 4 amps per channel, are we looking at bridged parallel for each channel with differential inputs ?

Yes, exactly.

... XLR output eh ?

XLR inputs only and balanced output at speaker terminals.

I really should have waited until I've at least tried them. It  could well be that my Quads don't 'like' being driven by an amp with balanced outputs. We'll see...

Mani.

PS. Nick/Paul, does this mean we all have gainclone amps housed in identical cases (sizes apart)? But I bet my amps are stronger than yours arrogant
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PeterSt
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« Reply #152 on: December 20, 2011, 12:06:15 pm »

Quote
PS. Nick/Paul, does this mean we all have gainclone amps housed in identical cases

Puh, count me in !
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W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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PeterSt
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« Reply #153 on: December 20, 2011, 12:10:13 pm »

Bert, I wondered ...

It seems to me that the "preamp section" (the mid-high amp in my situation) can be fed with XLR, while the bass amp behind it can be normally SE. Am I right ?

Peter


PS: You are providing DC Offset meters in there of course ?
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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Nick
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« Reply #154 on: December 20, 2011, 12:44:58 pm »


PS. Nick/Paul, does this mean we all have gainclone amps housed in identical cases (sizes apart)? But I bet my amps are stronger than yours arrogant

Mani, no contest   Wink with bridged parallel you should have power and current delivery,  just the thing for quads. I'm actually excited to hear the results, could be very very good indeed. Fingers crossed.
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« Reply #155 on: December 20, 2011, 02:28:58 pm »

Mani - you obviously will need an experienced pair of (GainClone) ears to check these new amps out - I would be pleased to offer my services. I can also hold babies while listening but it has been a few years since I did that (mine is 6ft 6inches tall now).

Four boxes - it will be really interesting to hear your first review and as you say you could just be the very first quad owner with GC so could this be a world first scoop on the XX forum.

P

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« Reply #156 on: December 20, 2011, 02:30:29 pm »

Quote
world first scoop

See ? you don't know Nick's car.
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #157 on: December 20, 2011, 03:00:09 pm »


Well I do know Mani's car I still have the oil stains on my drive ha ha  nea
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« Reply #158 on: December 20, 2011, 07:02:56 pm »

You want oil stains? I'll bring my wife's Golf diesel next time! Assuming I get another invitation that is...

Anyway, the BD-Design gainclone 'super amps' are here!!!

I've just set them up, run Densen De Magic and listened to a couple of tracks. It's actually quite difficult for me to compare these mono block amps directly to the stereo Sanders Magtech amp because I had to change all the interconnects and speaker cables also. I'm now using some anti-cable interconnects and very cheap 'n' cheerful single-strand enamelled copper speaker cable (the same sort of stuff used in the interconnects, but not twisted).

I'll hold off making any detailed comments until I've had a good listen. But I'll just say that until today, the Magtech was easily the best amp I'd ever heard with the Quads. And the BD-Design amps are in the same league at the very least.

Mani.
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« Reply #159 on: December 20, 2011, 07:48:01 pm »

It seems to me that the "preamp section" (the mid-high amp in my situation) can be fed with XLR, while the bass amp behind it can be normally SE. Am I right ?

No problem as long as the opposite leg of the XLR input is showing the same input impedance to the source. or use a line transformer to do that but I think that you do not want those in your signal path anymore...  Wink

Quote
PS: You are providing DC Offset meters in there of course ?

If the source is already having this equipped then why needing another? Besides that, the servo regulation cancels your DC on the input up to 15mV at least so hopefully it stays below that, otherwise the amp needs an input capacitor (Mani's amps are fully DC-coupled now).

Bert

Correction after reading back in time where I assume you are referring to the voltage drop at high power? Tests with 180Watt did not show any weird things so it is of no use to have those DC Offset meters with these amps.

Did you ever hear the difference between a regulated power supply and one that just delivers at the moment when asked without holding back?

Didn't I mention the overkill used for the Power Supply with 500VA transformers and about 85.000uF per channel?
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XX settings basically similar to PeterSt's
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« Reply #160 on: December 20, 2011, 07:51:58 pm »

I'll hold off making any detailed comments until I've had a good listen. But I'll just say that until today, the Magtech was easily the best amp I'd ever heard with the Quads. And the BD-Design amps are in the same league at the very least.

Indeed you should wait a little and have the amps burn in for a few days...especially those BG's need to settle down to show their true potential.  Happy

Glad to read that the amps arrived in one piece!

Bert
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XX settings basically similar to PeterSt's
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« Reply #161 on: December 20, 2011, 08:24:35 pm »

Glad to read that the amps arrived in one piece!

Hey Bert, thanks soooo much for putting these together for me. Already, they sound, really, really great. I strongly suspect that getting these amps will be on par with getting a NOS1... in terms of the best hifi choices I've ever made.

Thanks again.

Mani.
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
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« Reply #162 on: December 21, 2011, 08:07:18 am »

Quote
PS: You are providing DC Offset meters in there of course ?

Quote
If the source is already having this equipped then why needing another? Besides that, the servo regulation cancels your DC on the input up to 15mV at least so hopefully it stays below that, otherwise the amp needs an input capacitor (Mani's amps are fully DC-coupled now).

I was only kidding.

Quote
Didn't I mention the overkill used for the Power Supply with 500VA transformers and about 85.000uF per channel?

Not talking about the transformers, but what would be the 40000uF/ch in the NOS1 then ?
Happy

Peter


PS: Mani, now I wonder, did the Offset as read at the NOS1 side change ?
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« Reply #163 on: December 21, 2011, 09:19:07 pm »

PS: Mani, now I wonder, did the Offset as read at the NOS1 side change ?

Haha...

Well, I've been playing around with various things, trying to eliminate a tiny bit of noise that's coming through the speakers that wasn't there with the Magtech amp. Bert's been helping me via email. Anyway, I've just stumbled upon an old pair of XLR interconnects that I had hanging around in my basement (not used for I guess 8 years or so). They have an additional alloy jacket, that I think is connected to ground at one end. And you know what? The noise has completely gone.

But what's even more remarkable is that my DC offsets have gone from 5mV and 1mV to exactly 0mV and 0mV!!! And they remain there whether music is playing or not. Oh, and I've re-tried all the other XLR cables I have here - the speaker noise returns and the so do the nominal DC offsets.

WTF !

Any explanations most welcome.

Mani.

PS. Amps sounding more and more wonderful every minute!
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« Reply #164 on: December 21, 2011, 10:40:25 pm »

Same problem here, with Nordost unshielded cable I get some noise, RFI, hum through the gainclones, especially when the preamp is not ready for connection because the relay is open.
With shielded cables no problem and dead silent.
The pity is the Nordost sound more open.
Maybe A DIY-cable has to be made. unhappy
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