|
andreitour
|
 |
« on: September 16, 2011, 11:04:38 am » |
|
Just thought I'd ask if anyone could list the specific benefits of using a USB to spdif converter vs the integrated SPDIF on my motherboard?
I'm wondering how much it impacts SQ versus say upgrading the DAC as opposed to the SPDIF output (weakest link theory always to be considered) but i figure the USB converter could have superior clocking to the integrated SPDIF...
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
dedicated XXHighEnd PC: Amd Phenom II x6, 16GB 1600mhz DDR3, Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit on SSD, M-AUDIO - Audiophile 192, Bryston 3B-ST, Focal Cobalt 815
|
|
|
|
PeterSt
|
|
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2011, 11:23:29 am » |
|
Ok. I read about your mill spec mobo and all, and even then ...
I'd say that any mobo SPDIF etc. isn't the best. Ok, it will be the worst. So, from that should follow that close to everything would be an improvement. But I am far from sure when this is USB related.
I don't think it matter much what others say about this (and I do NOT mean others in this forum - but elsewhere); It will merely be about what you'd imply for noise over that specific USB connection, which sadly includes around everything else around your system. O rules exist, nor can I give hints.
Generally, USB to SPDIF is a theoretical nice one, but I would not depend on the el cheapo solutions. Also, and this may come to you as strange or hard to understand - any change in "SQ" can easily be perceived as better, while actually it went the other way around.
Without further detailed explanation, think of very much filtering interlinks, them taking away harshness. So, good ?
No, never good. Especially not good once you'd have the idea that your interlinks *thus* are perfect, and it would be the last thing you'd ever change. However, now you obtainng something new like a good preamp, that one not showing the earlier harshness at all. But all what would be the result is dull sounding stuff because your oh so nicely chosen interlinks are still in there.
The only message is : USB is so "dangerous" on this aspect that without a reference first you won't be able to judge (well) while later you will run into troubles without recognizing it.
There's just too much noise on USB inherently ...
Peter
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13* (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).
For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10 (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.
Global Moderator
|
|
|
|
andreitour
|
|
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2011, 11:59:51 am » |
|
the very first time I hooked up my external DAC (VIA USB) the noise was so bad I immediately called the vendor to complain and he suggested trying the other connections, cheater plugs for the power cords (to eliminate ground loop)
the coaxial digital had much less noise (shielding)
and the optical was the quietest of all (Im sure due to the lack EMI with the optical cable)
but by your comments I'm assuming that the ideal connection to an external DAC (barring the NOS1 of course, I'm a few years away from that...) would be a high quality PCI sound-card with SPDIF out then?
I'm just wondering if an external DAC is handling the main load of conversion what sort of card should I be looking for a Cantatis (used for less than $300 hopefully), or just a high end creative labs (quite affordable) to get a better optical out than my Mainboard
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
dedicated XXHighEnd PC: Amd Phenom II x6, 16GB 1600mhz DDR3, Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit on SSD, M-AUDIO - Audiophile 192, Bryston 3B-ST, Focal Cobalt 815
|
|
|
|
PeterSt
|
|
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2011, 12:54:41 pm » |
|
Indeed something like that Andrei.
But I wouldn't overdo it, because it won't be optimal anyway. And remember, this is about the coax (SPDIF) connection only. So, no expensive (I mean, the most costing) analogue stage and even D/A is needed.
If I were you, I would try a Juli@. It's cheap, it is proven for its drivers and if it doesn't work out you didn't spend all *that* much money ...
In a later stage you might be able to tweak your DAC for i2s-in, while at the same time the Juli@ can be tweaked for i2s out.
Please don't proceed on that subject now, but weigh it in as an argument for it.
Peter
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13* (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).
For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10 (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.
Global Moderator
|
|
|
|
PeterSt
|
|
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2011, 01:03:53 pm » |
|
Please don't proceed on that subject now, but weigh it in as an argument for it. To be clear, I meant the i2s subject. Not the subject in general of course ... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13* (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).
For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10 (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.
Global Moderator
|
|
|
|
bambadoo
|
|
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 07:48:20 am » |
|
Use a high quality soundcards spdif out and you could get extremely good sound.
Like Asus Essence st(x).. Look at stereophiles measurements of the spdif connection.
Much better than usb-spdif in my setup
Sincerely
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
SeVeReD
|
|
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2012, 04:58:22 am » |
|
I'm interested in this subject also as a friend of mine is having me help him build a computer for xxhe (same friend peter... this has taking him forever to get around to. he bought the external HDDs for the wav files last year heh). I was also going to suggest the juli@ for a coax out to his preamp/dac (hardly optimal, but he's heard my system, so he'll have to judge from there). If others have a cheap alternative to the dac, would like to hear them.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
0.9z-8-3a WAV/CUE files on HDDs via MB FW400>; Win7 pro ttp://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=352.msg4021#msg4021); [XXHighEnd player Qs 7, 0, 0, 0, 0; eng 4; adaptive; scheme#3; player priority low; thread priority realtime; clock res 5ms: SFS 420  dac is 24/192 w/32bits; Play Unattended; Stop Services ticked; Wallpaper & Show Back ticked - Mirror Image unticked; Start Engine unticked;garbage collect ticked; copy files to XX-drive; *quad arc prediction upsampling*: straight contiguous:>PCI FW800 card>Fireface 800 DAC [latency 2048 samples for 176.4]; usb/ethernet/mb audio shut off @ MB |
|
|
|
bambadoo
|
|
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2012, 06:15:55 pm » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
|
sergero
|
|
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2012, 11:38:30 am » |
|
If others have a cheap alternative to the dac, would like to hear them.
You may take a look at reasonably priced Schiit Bifrost DAC. Follow the link for the review: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit2/1.html |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
HTPC Thermaltake Bach: Intel Q9550 - 3 Gb RAM, WinXP 32bit, music and XXHE are on external hdd via eSATA, > Hama 053742 USB 2.0 cable> NAD M51 DAC > VanDenHul The Orchid IC > NAD C165BEE preamp > Vampire Wire AI/2 IC > Yamaha MX-2 power amp > Kimber Kable 4TC speaker cables > Yamaha NS-F500 speakers + pair of Infinity Beta SW-10 subs....ooooph:)
0.9-z4-1 Engine#4 Adaptive, Device buffer 1024, Qs - 4,0,0,0,0, thread prio - real time,Processor core - scheme 3 , Clock res - 1 ms, DAC 16 - 44.1, SFS 110 Mixed contiguous
|
|
|
|
sergero
|
|
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2012, 11:43:16 am » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
HTPC Thermaltake Bach: Intel Q9550 - 3 Gb RAM, WinXP 32bit, music and XXHE are on external hdd via eSATA, > Hama 053742 USB 2.0 cable> NAD M51 DAC > VanDenHul The Orchid IC > NAD C165BEE preamp > Vampire Wire AI/2 IC > Yamaha MX-2 power amp > Kimber Kable 4TC speaker cables > Yamaha NS-F500 speakers + pair of Infinity Beta SW-10 subs....ooooph:)
0.9-z4-1 Engine#4 Adaptive, Device buffer 1024, Qs - 4,0,0,0,0, thread prio - real time,Processor core - scheme 3 , Clock res - 1 ms, DAC 16 - 44.1, SFS 110 Mixed contiguous
|
|
|
|
