XXHighEnd - The Ultra HighEnd Audio Player
December 10, 2018, 10:30:54 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: August 6, 2017 : Phasure Webshop open ! Go to the Shop
Search current board structure only !!  
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: High end cabling  (Read 5188 times)
0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.
Bigear
Audio Loudspeaker
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« on: October 07, 2011, 07:19:32 pm »

In the search of getting a more and more detailed and realistic sound, each audiophile has gotten in touch with the audio cable industry.
In a demo, they take out some hideous expensive snake thick cable which sounds (much) better then the bell wire they used before.

I felt for this trap long ago and have had numerous upgrades in my cabling. Starting with some, DIY's and noname IC's, I entered the expensive world of Siltech, MIT, NBS and Senzati.  These all produce cables that sound great but IMNO there is no way they can justify their rediculous high prices, even second hand (as I usually buy these).
There is a huge 'snake oil' factor especially in this part of the audio industry.

I was wondering if anyone has found a normal priced alternative that would match the performance of the 'great'.


Logged

i7 920, Asus MB, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit / 6 Gb RAM /no updates / music on SATAII  => XX V9z-6 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 5,0,0,0,0 / unattended / SFS 60 Mb memory straight contiguous / system clock 10ms / CPU Engine 3 / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / 16x Arc Prediction / Minimise OS / Peak Extend on / Phase invert off => NOS1 USB DAC => Aitos Pre and End amplifiers => PHY-HP KM30 open baffle.  NOT a single capacitor or coil from DAC chip to speaker
music33
Audio Loudspeaker
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 74


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2011, 08:13:39 pm »

You said they all sound great, so what is the 'snake oil' part.  And since you feel that way, why not just stick with DIY?

In my experience, you have to match the cable to your system and taste in sound, so it is a bit hard to make a recommendation.  Also, as with most very expensive things, as you go up the price ladder the differences become smaller and more subtle.  Some people who want the very best, will pay for it.

My recommendation is get direct lines put in with a high-end receptacle and high grade electrical wire (10 gauge).  Much, much cheaper and made a huge difference for me over any cable I have ever bought!
Logged
Bigear
Audio Loudspeaker
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2011, 09:50:04 am »

Quote
You said they all sound great, so what is the 'snake oil' part.  And since you feel that way, why not just stick with DIY?

Hi Music33,

The 'snake oil' part is mostly regarding the extreme prices of topline high-end cables, sometimes even exceeding 10-20 kEu. I can't imagine that the actual material and processing costs are THAT high. So sales margins are extreme. This is also notable in the steep price decrease of these cables in the second hand market...

With regards to DIY, been there done that. Although it might be possible, I have yet to hear the DIY cable that really matches the sound quality and balance of a good highend cable.

Not sure if I understand your suggestion with the direct lines... Can that be done with standard audio component or do you need to modify these?

Tried in the past high grade electrical wire as speaker cable, but was not really happy with the sound, especially in the high's.
Lot's of sharp SSSSSSSSSSSSSSS sounds.


Cheers.
Logged

i7 920, Asus MB, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit / 6 Gb RAM /no updates / music on SATAII  => XX V9z-6 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 5,0,0,0,0 / unattended / SFS 60 Mb memory straight contiguous / system clock 10ms / CPU Engine 3 / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / 16x Arc Prediction / Minimise OS / Peak Extend on / Phase invert off => NOS1 USB DAC => Aitos Pre and End amplifiers => PHY-HP KM30 open baffle.  NOT a single capacitor or coil from DAC chip to speaker
Bigear
Audio Loudspeaker
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2011, 06:41:04 pm »

Got me a XLR IC from Grover Huffman. (Big thanks to Happy Juanpmar for this link). Not played in fully yet but already VERY good. Space, location, macro and micro dynamics, good extensions in low and high. Really revealing, hearing 'new' things on 'old' tracks.

And this for sensible pricing...   Happy
Logged

i7 920, Asus MB, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit / 6 Gb RAM /no updates / music on SATAII  => XX V9z-6 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 5,0,0,0,0 / unattended / SFS 60 Mb memory straight contiguous / system clock 10ms / CPU Engine 3 / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / 16x Arc Prediction / Minimise OS / Peak Extend on / Phase invert off => NOS1 USB DAC => Aitos Pre and End amplifiers => PHY-HP KM30 open baffle.  NOT a single capacitor or coil from DAC chip to speaker
PeterSt
Administrator
High Grade Audiophile
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 15317



View Profile Email
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2011, 11:30:56 pm »

Ok, good !
But now let's try to explain what could have been wrong with your former XLR's ?

Just curious ...
Peter
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

Global Moderator
Bigear
Audio Loudspeaker
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 57


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2011, 01:07:15 pm »

Ok, good !
But now let's try to explain what could have been wrong with your former XLR's ?

Just curious ...
Peter

Ok, lets give it a try...

My former cable exists of silver polycrystalline round wires with a teflon coating... It has a warm sound, a bit 'dark' and lacking some high extension. Nice to combine in a 'typical' digital setup (to which I do not count the NOS1 Phasure DAC).
Reading this link http://www.steenduelund.dk/download/kabler%20intro.pdf  there are a couple a things a good cable must have...
1. It consists of flat wires, wide for good lows, more square for the highs with a special surface treatements so skin effects are reduced...

GH IC are made of flat wires with some patented features and material choices eliminating  skin effects, so I guess this is one effect I hear.

2. The electrical isolation material used has influence on the sound, Duelund uses 'natural materials'.

GH IC has also covered this in his latest version: out of his blog  'Turns out Teflon was holding me back'. He uses now a different isolation material, not sure what it is.

3. Electro-magnetic shielding should be excellent in nowadays RF smogged ambients.

GH IC has a nickel shielding layer taking care of this.

So, there might/will be more effects we are not (yet) aware off, but anyhow, this cable takes care of some the more interesting 'cable science' topics I could find on the internet and it shows.. eh sounds...  Happy
Much more extension, space (voice/instrument seperation) without blowing things up,  information, micro and macro dynamics.
Guess there will be better cables around but I haven't found them yet for this reasonable price level.
Logged

i7 920, Asus MB, Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit / 6 Gb RAM /no updates / music on SATAII  => XX V9z-6 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 5,0,0,0,0 / unattended / SFS 60 Mb memory straight contiguous / system clock 10ms / CPU Engine 3 / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / 16x Arc Prediction / Minimise OS / Peak Extend on / Phase invert off => NOS1 USB DAC => Aitos Pre and End amplifiers => PHY-HP KM30 open baffle.  NOT a single capacitor or coil from DAC chip to speaker
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1 RC2 | SMF © 2001-2005, Lewis Media Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.075 seconds with 20 queries.