asynchronous NOS1 setup dilemma

[esimms86]

Yes, I know it's been a long time I last posted and, no, I still do not have the DAC up and running. I figured I'd start a new thread in, perhaps, a last ditch effort to get this problem sorted out. I tabled setting up the Phasure for awhile and got caught up instead in the hustle and bustle of the Christmas holidays. I did try Mixed and Mixed Contiguous, both to no avail. I have also reached out to a Phasure owner who, as it turns out, only lives a 30 or minute or less drive away from my home in the US(I'm in Massachusetts and he's in Rhode Island; what are the odds?). Holiday and work schedules have thus far got in the way of the us working out a time when we can meet.

In the meantime, I have realized one thing that is different from previous setup. I originally connected the 9 volt battery(I believe, a Phillips Long Life battery) that Peter provided to my DAC. The sound was suboptimal, albeit with initially incorrect XXHE settings, but there was sound. I later inadvertently left the DAC on for several days with switch #4 in the on position. Thinking that I had probably run down the 9v battery, I replaced it with a Duracell. Checking things some time later, I realize that the DC Offset is reading anywhere from about -/+70.0  to 90.0. Is this the fault of the battery switch? I can't say, but I do know that a DC Offset reading that high will not work with the DAC. Peter tells me: "Notice that the value of 1 or –1 denotes more than +/-200mV. Your Offset was measured here as L = –03.6mV and R = +1.4mV."
 
Can I just go back to the original battery? Well, I can't locate it and very well may have tossed it(or perhaps my 14 year old son is using it in one of his ubiquitous electronic devices). Further, it is virtually impossible to find a Phillips 9 volt battery in stores or online in the US. It seems that Energizers and Duracells are the universal go to choices for both brick and mortar and online retailers in this country. Is there another 9 volt battery generally available in the US that others have found acceptable with the Phasure(and does any of this battery business make any sense at all)? I honestly can't say if the battery issue is germane or not, but it is a fact that the DC Offset issue is real. Is there some alternate way to remedy this? Perhaps someone on the forum can tell me. Meanwhile, I have my 2010 mac mini loaded with Audirvana Plus(which works for Claude with a 2009 mac mini) and I also have XXHE setup in Windows 7 running in bootcamp mode on the same 2010 mac mini. I also have a custom build core i7 Sandy Bridge quad core PC with XXHE at the ready.

I know how ridiculous all this trouble makes me sound(at this point, frustration trumps pride) and I also really would hate to be the first person to return the Phasure for a refund, but I may have to resort to doing that if I'm unable to work things out. Thanks for hearing me out and thanks for any suggestions you can offer.

Esau

P.S.

One more word on XXHE. Version 0.9-z-61b loads on my core i7 quadcore custom build PC and on my core i5 Dell laptop. Version 0.9-z-61c does not load on either(i.e., I immediately get a shutdown error message when trying to start it up).

[PeterSt]

Hi there Esau,

The whole "battery business" indeed is totally unrelated. Just get any 9V battery and hook it up (well, this is what I think).
... which is what you did already ...

Can you confirm that you tried the normal "startup procedure" for the NOS1, like you had to do it in the beginning ? So, at trying to get the lowest reading ?

Did you try it with the interconnects *not* connected, and USB connected (and PC on) ? This is the most safe way to eliminate outside influences.

So, please explicitly confirm by means of telling what and how you tried.

If it still does not work, I will investigate whether indeed it is possible that battery of a kind-ish other type may influence this. Honestly I never have thought about it ...

Regards,
Peter

[Claude]

Hi Esau,
How long are you in the runin process?
Right now I think, that its best to let the dac Run in and then start to work on the settings. i am at day32 and i think the dac finally settles. But i still have something like high energy building up. Even at small volumes i have listening fatigue after half an hour. (@ Peter: with xxhighend and NO preamp) i turned Down my tweaters 3db but still build up some noise after half an hour (like talking on your cellular for an hour)
About the battery:
The one supplied with the nos was close to empty. So the DC Offset Control monitor did not work at all. I just used the next battery laying around.
Esau,
You do not sound ridiculous!
I had absolutely amazing sound one evening and the Music was so involving that i cryed and I am still trying to get this sound back.
Claudius

[esimms86]

Now that Christmas is behind us with all of its family committments I've had a little more time to devote to playing with my audio setup. I tried the DAC connected to a mac mini running Audirvana Plus(but not connected to my amplifier), once again followed the startup procedure, left a more than reasonable amount of warmup time(over an hour), all with the same results, i.e., a high DC offset reading in the double digits. Likewise, connecting to the amplifier resulted in no sound output(as anticipated given the DC offset readings). I did try a variety of batteries, FWIW, with the result always the same. I would be thrilled to be in burn in phase as opposed to the limbo that I find myself in so far. I remain open to suggestions.

Esau

[Claude]

Hi Esau
You do not get the Dac to run at all?
Not with your Mac and your PC?
Claude

[esimms86]

Unfortunately, that's correct. But I'm still hoping.

Esau

[praphan]

Hi Peter,

Sound like a power supply compatibility issue. You have some US customers that run the NOS beautifully and some with trouble. Any Japanese customer running 110 V with problem?

This is pretty random guess.

Have a happy new year !
Regards,
Praphan

[PeterSt]

Esau !
I really don't get what's all happening.

First thing : DC Offset of 70/90mV sure is not good. But it as sure will allow you to play music, and you may not even notice a thing. Now, don't think that we thus will "accept" this, because it *is* wrong. But again, nothing which won't allow music (therefore you must be in the triple figure range, like over 1500mV !).
That it might be an indication that something is "broken" is something else. But let's not think about this now, because what could have happened since it worked (remember, on November 6 you had all working - on PC/XXHighEnd, and on the Mini as well but without me knowing about SQ results because you never told about it).

You really should tell me about the offset readings during the startup procedure. This is nothing like "after one hour". Just follow the procedure and tell me what happens. BUT, do this on a PC because the USB ports on the Mini can not be trusted. I mean, not from here and without looking at it.

Thus, disconnect amps, and start the procedure. Do this without USB connected at first. Tell me what happens after switching what. It is not necessary to give me the full list of 20 attempts, but the general idea will do. Also tell me whether the offset is stable (this needn't be, and may tell me something).
Done ?
Now have all on in the best offset you could get (which may be an instable one) and connect the USB cable. Have it in at the PC side first, and lastly plug it into the DAC while watching the meters;
What's the change you see ?
Done ?
Perform the startup procedure again. In the realm of what you told about the first attempt without USB connected, tell me the differences you see, now USB is connected.

Also, explicitly tell me whether you ever see a change at flipping Sw#2.

Notice there are some 20 110V's out there (and yes, one in Japan too). None have DC offset problems. We know though, that when a (new) NOS1 exhibits out of range DC offset, something will be wrong. This can easily include "no sound".
I'm saying this not to discourage you, but to indicate you may not be crazy.

During the writing of this, more ideas come to my mind, like what will actually happen when the battery runs empty and it's left like that for several days; ...

I later inadvertently left the DAC on for several days with switch #4 in the on position. Thinking that I had probably run down the 9v battery, I replaced it with a Duracell.

... But here you seem to suggest it wasn't empty at all, so maybe it is not necessary to think about this.
Another thing I can think of is the relatively high current flowing from a capacitor when Sw#4 is left on for several days. This may not be a good thing and it may have damaged that capacitor. Anyway it was not designed to be in that stage for days and days, and the logical setup is such that it would be clear that the bright light inside implies a non-usual situation (not that I'm blaming you !).
It's not even that far out to think that this damaged capacitor implies a DC offset ...

The DAC board is in the mid section;
When Sw#2 is On (down) a green led should be visible there. Maybe you saw it before. It is best to see in the dark of course, but otherwise just flip Sw#2 and you should see it coming on or going off.
But is it ever on ?


Last thing for now :
In my previous post I avoided the XXHighEnd version thing (not running), and most probably this drove you to the Mini again. I am sorry about this, because I really thought "first things first" and this is what you see in the above. It is not related to any XXHighEnd at this moment. So indeed, first things first.
What it is about this version quitting right away I really can't tell, unless you forget to tell me about a message which appears first. But no worries about this for now; we will get that working, I'm 100% sure. First the NOS1, ok ?

I hope you have time for it these days. I will be watching closely, and be there as fast as I can.

Kind regards,
Peter

[PeterSt]

So, when I'm at it anyway ...

One more word on XXHE. Version 0.9-z-61b loads on my core i7 quadcore custom build PC and on my core i5 Dell laptop. Version 0.9-z-61c does not load on either(i.e., I immediately get a shutdown error message when trying to start it up).

What is this message ?

I have the hunch that you didn't install 0.9z-6-1c into ("over") the base 0.9z-6-1. Best to try for you at this moment will be this :

Go to the folder where you installed 0.9z-6-1b. Btw, check the desktop icon you are using whether it indeed points to the XXHighEnd.exe in exactly that folder;
Rename the XXHighEnd.exe to XXHighEnd.61b or something;
Now cause the XXHighEnd.exe coming from 0.9z-6-1c to be in that folder.

Use your icon to fire it up, and check whether indeed 0.9z-6-1c shows in the title bar.

And don't tell me it shuts down right away, because I won't believe you. Haha.

Let me know please ...
Peter


PS: But when it doesn't work, rename the XXHighEnd.exe which is in your folder now to XXHighEnd.06c and rename XXHighEnd.06b back to XXHighEnd.exe. You can work with 0.z-6-1b now again.

[esimms86]

Esau !
I really don't get what's all happening.
>Peter! Neither do I  : (

First thing : DC Offset of 70/90mV sure is not good.
>I'm very much in agreement with you there.
But it as sure will allow you to play music, and you may not even notice a thing. Now, don't think that we thus will "accept" this, because it *is* wrong. But again, nothing which won't allow music (therefore you must be in the triple figure range, like over 1500mV !).
>I've never seen an offset that high though I've gotten close.
That it might be an indication that something is "broken" is something else. But let's not think about this now, because what could have happened since it worked (remember, on November 6 you had all working - on PC/XXHighEnd, and on the Mini as well but without me knowing about SQ results because you never told about it).

>I received sound with dropouts and so I was unwilling to comment on sound quality not having heard music play uninterrupted for more than several seconds at a time.
You really should tell me about the offset readings during the startup procedure. This is nothing like "after one hour". Just follow the procedure and tell me what happens. BUT, do this on a PC because the USB ports on the Mini can not be trusted. I mean, not from here and without looking at it.

Thus, disconnect amps, and start the procedure. Do this without USB connected at first. Tell me what happens after switching what. It is not necessary to give me the full list of 20 attempts, but the general idea will do. Also tell me whether the offset is stable (this needn't be, and may tell me something).

>So I've now done as you've asked, connecting my custom build PC and following provided procedures to the letter, and with no amp connected. I have a fully charged Duracell battery in place and I am now getting DC Offset readings in the range of 119 to 137 on startup.
Done ?
Now have all on in the best offset you could get (which may be an instable one) and connect the USB cable. Have it in at the PC side first, and lastly plug it into the DAC while watching the meters;
What's the change you see ?
Done ?
>The result is essentially the same, this time with the meters in the 111 to 119 range.

Perform the startup procedure again. In the realm of what you told about the first attempt without USB connected, tell me the differences you see, now USB is connected.

Also, explicitly tell me whether you ever see a change at flipping Sw#2.

>Flipping on Sw#2 I go from 0 to 134.
Notice there are some 20 110V's out there (and yes, one in Japan too). None have DC offset problems. We know though, that when a (new) NOS1 exhibits out of range DC offset, something will be wrong. This can easily include "no sound".
I'm saying this not to discourage you, but to indicate you may not be crazy. 

>I'm not so sure...
During the writing of this, more ideas come to my mind, like what will actually happen when the battery runs empty and it's left like that for several days; ...
Quote
I later inadvertently left the DAC on for several days with switch #4 in the on position. Thinking that I had probably run down the 9v battery, I replaced it with a Duracell.

... But here you seem to suggest it wasn't empty at all, so maybe it is not necessary to think about this.
Another thing I can think of is the relatively high current flowing from a capacitor when Sw#4 is left on for several days. This may not be a good thing and it may have damaged that capacitor. Anyway it was not designed to be in that stage for days and days, and the logical setup is such that it would be clear that the bright light inside implies a non-usual situation (not that I'm blaming you !).
It's not even that far out to think that this damaged capacitor implies a DC offset ...

>It's beginning to look like some damage was done.
The DAC board is in the mid section;
When Sw#2 is On (down) a green led should be visible there. Maybe you saw it before. It is best to see in the dark of course, but otherwise just flip Sw#2 and you should see it coming on or going off.
But is it ever on ?
>No, I unfortunately do not see a green LED, further leading me to believe that some damage was done.


Last thing for now :
In my previous post I avoided the XXHighEnd version thing (not running), and most probably this drove you to the Mini again. I am sorry about this, because I really thought "first things first" and this is what you see in the above. It is not related to any XXHighEnd at this moment. So indeed, first things first.
What it is about this version quitting right away I really can't tell, unless you forget to tell me about a message which appears first. But no worries about this for now; we will get that working, I'm 100% sure. First the NOS1, ok ?

I hope you have time for it these days. I will be watching closely, and be there as fast as I can.
>Well, I spent a good 90 minutes this afternoon going through all the permutations.  At the end of the session I was more discouraged than ever.

Kind regards,
>My kind regards as well and thanks for your patience through this ordeal. I feel, however, that the best thing I can do at this point is to box up the DAC and ship it back to you for inspection. I will likely do that tomorrow. I don't fault you in the least but it does concern me to think about what occurs when you experience problems where you live in the US and the nearest "service location" is in the Netherlands. The high DC Offset readings and the lack of a green LED points to some problem that probably stemmed from my inadvertently leaving switch#4 on for a couple of days. I don't think this is a Mac problem because Claudius is getting music out a 2009 mac mini running Audirvana or Audirvana Plus(?), whereas I have a 2010 mac mini with Audirvana Plus and also with XXHE running in Windows 7 bootcamp mode.

So, when I'm at it anyway ...
Quote
One more word on XXHE. Version 0.9-z-61b loads on my core i7 quadcore custom build PC and on my core i5 Dell laptop. Version 0.9-z-61c does not load on either(i.e., I immediately get a shutdown error message when trying to start it up).


What is this message ?

I have the hunch that you didn't install 0.9z-6-1c into ("over") the base 0.9z-6-1. Best to try for you at this moment will be this :

Go to the folder where you installed 0.9z-6-1b. Btw, check the desktop icon you are using whether it indeed points to the XXHighEnd.exe in exactly that folder;
Rename the XXHighEnd.exe to XXHighEnd.61b or something;
Now cause the XXHighEnd.exe coming from 0.9z-6-1c to be in that folder.

Use your icon to fire it up, and check whether indeed 0.9z-6-1c shows in the title bar.

And don't tell me it shuts down right away, because I won't believe you. Haha.

Let me know please ...
Peter


PS: But when it doesn't work, rename the XXHighEnd.exe which is in your folder now to XXHighEnd.06c and rename XXHighEnd.06b back to XXHighEnd.exe. You can work with 0.z-6-1b now again.

>This time is did work. Apparently, I had tried to start 6c from a folder where it sat entirely alone(i.e., only the XXHE icon file resided in the folder). When I downloaded and extracted 6b first, then changed the name of the XXHE file to 6b, then downloaded and extracted 6c to the same folder, it worked without a hitch.

Best regards,

Esau

[PeterSt]

Esau, thank a lot for your extensive reply and work on this.

At this moment I can say one thing only really : wrap it up and send it to here. I will pay for the costs. I will arrange for the pickup as well.

The only thing which really holds me back at this moment of really suggesting it, is that I may think of some "solution" which may be more convenient and speed up things more. But this thinking about this alone needs time too. I will sleep on it, and let you know tomorrow. I hope that is okay.

Good that you got XXHE running again. Thanks for trying.

Peter

[esimms86]

That's fine Peter. If the eventual plan is to ship it back to you I will send you a PM with my home address so I can ship from here rather than from my work address.

Esau

[PeterSt]

Hi Esau - can't think of anything else. Just sent you an email with some details. I used the email address registered for the forum here (I received an auto-reply on the usual one). I hope you receive it.

Regards,
Peter