Best pc mouse connection for SQ?

[CoenP]

Just to answer my own question: The best mouse is no mouse.

Just try it.

I've noticed that SQ of the NOS1-USB is compromised by any other USB port that is activated. This may be a mouse, memorystick or whatever USB device. So I like to keep my USB clean, but now a "challenge" rises: how to connect the mouse on a modern motherboard?
Like many new motherboards, my new one only has one PS/2 connector that either supports a mouse or a keyboard. Nope, the splitter does not work (only on some older laptops).

In order to be able to unplug the mouse when listening to music, the keyboard is occupying this port (XX control is via keyboard hotkeys). This works but is inconvenient.

In an attempt to adress this inconvenience whilst not using USB, I reverted to the good 'ole serial mouse on the COM port. The PS/2 and COM controllers are on the same chip and everything worked right away (huray for W7!).
Unfortunately no surprises here: everything seems to matter, so does the serial mouse. It leaves a signature on the sound that is noticable (by me) yet different from the usb mouse.

Maybe someone has found a covenient and harmless solution for controlling the pc with a mouse other than buying a new mobo.
(registry tweaks? more hotkeys?)

Please let me know,

regards, Coen

[AlainGr]

I can think of a keyboard that has a "pad" for using a finger (like on a laptop), but I am not sure if it carries a PS2 connection...

[CoenP]

Thanks Alain,

I have a whole box with mouses, keybords and the like. The more practical (wireless) and advanced stuff is allways usb. Usb seems to be the preferred mouse connection since 2001  .

Regards, Coen

[PeterSt]

Since I am actually right in the middle of this stuff ...

Let's say I will make something that shuts off the USB ports concerned on command of something else. And on again.

I am not 100% sure yet whether this can be done with specific USB ports, which to me seems a necessity.

Notice :
What I have thought of "strategy" is that USB3 is of vast importance to overcome the disc storage problem. So, when internal SATA ports are occupied, USB3 should provide sheer infinite extension.
At this moment I use a mobo with 2 USB3 ports and when two 7 port USB3 hubs (which exist) are connected to that, this gives an extension of 14 HDDs (max 2TB each at this time). This looks enough for now ...

I am playing with this connections active for something like 3 weeks now, and I don't see any decrease in SQ. But I never A-B'd it either, so this could be wrong judgement.


Anyway, I have been thinking about shutting off keyboard and mouse for a longer time, but didn't know of a means to activate them again. Now I do ... (I think ).

Peter

[CoenP]

Hi Peter,

This is good news. I hope a satisfying sultion will be possible.

Does it matter that usb3 is still implemented as a PCIe extention?

Regards, Coen

[PeterSt]

Does it matter that usb3 is still implemented as a PCIe extention?

As we all know, I don't know all. So ... is it ?
And is USB2  not ?

But *if* USB3 is and USB2 is not, I'd say this is for the better.

?

[boleary]

Coen, thanks for bringing this up. Yesterday I switched from usb to PS/2 mouse and keyboard, I also unpluuged my Hiface which runs to my home theater setup and got a really nice bump in SQ. As you noted a much more relaxed sound.

[CoenP]

You're welcome boleary!

Also note that there is different flavours of sata on the motherboard. Some come directly from the chipset and others are tapped off the pci-e bus (like the usb3.0 above). I have my os on the chipset sata and the music on the pci-e to sata controller. Even the sata port that is used may make a difference. If you have some spare time this kind of tweaking is a nice learning experience an may yield in some free sq improvement.

Regards, Coen

[boleary]

Maybe next weekend I'll have the time to figure out what connections I have and what might work for a new "flavor," that is if my wife has no projects lined up for me. Spent the last two days stripping paint off a dam 1890's hot water radiater in the kitchen. Used some organic paint stripper that you wrap in plastic and leave it on for 12 hours or so. What a fricking mess.........

[PeterSt]

Seems like you have a nice wife.
Well, you have ...

[Stanray]

So, could you specify the mobo requirements at this stage or even recommend a mobo?

Or am I too impatient? I do want to get on assembling my audio pc . . . .

Regards,
Stanley   

[PeterSt]

Hi Stanley,

Assumed this was addressed to me ... No. Or at least not yet, or maybe I never will. I mean, whatever I am doing I do with my own MoBo, but also : what I (obviously) hunt for is that whatever solution will suit everybody. I said hunt for, and not "will achieve" ...

But also see my earlier post, where I talked about shutting the whole lot off in the first place. That should be unrelated to MoBo's I think ...

Peter

[CoenP]

Hi Stanley,

A difficult question to anwer, if not impossible. I set some budget and powerconsumption constraints in selecting my setup. Also important is wheter you want to use the pc for other purposes.

I think there is no real alternative for the Intel gear. You may get a good price on an i7 Sandy Bridge now since Ivy Bridge is on the horizon. It is general consensus that you should buy the processor supporting the most threads that you are willing/able to afford.

As motherboard features I would advice to have at least a USB 3 capability (native on the latest IB Intel chipset) and (if you do not plan to game) an onboard VGA/DVi interface using the GPU since XX is not demanding on the video side. This is all pretty standard by now.

I personally had a PCI interface on my whishlist to later give the PC another destination than stand-alone music server. I also looked into the 2 Oz copper ones that are advertised to have lower supply impedance (generally something desirable).

Oh, imho there is no way around Win7-x64 Ultimate that supports all desired XX traits out of the box.

When all setup you'll be in tweakers heaven . You can tune the motherboard interfaces, the bios, the OS and XX; no more boring nights!!!

May the force be with you,

regards, Coen

[Stanray]

Hi Coen,

Thanks for your thoughts.

My computer will be for audio exclusively. I was aiming for the Intel i7 2600 (4core) because of its low heat production, so I can try to use only 1 cpu fan (12 cm) and no case fans. The psu will be passive. The computer case is disguised as an audio component and is naturally vented.

So for the mobo I have 2 in mind:
- the Asus P8Z68V (http://www.informatique.nl/115786/asus-p8z68-v.html) or
- the MSI Z68A G43 (http://www.informatique.nl/115809/msi-z68a-g43-g3.html) which has no eSata but 2 Ps/2 connections.

If Peter knows a way of shutting off keyboard and mouse during playback and activate them again, I think the Asus board is the choice, otherwise the MSI.

Regards,
Stanley

[gsbrva]

How about interrupting the power lead (pin 1) to the mouse (or keyboard) with a switch. It is easy to modify a cable or maybe even drill the mouse body and put in a mini toggle  somewhere.  This will have the same effect as unplugging the mouse.

Maybe the system would have to settle for too long after the device is depowered. 

[PeterSt]

I was aiming for the Intel i7 2600 (4core) because of its low heat production

I must admit that I didn't look it up, but which processor has more heat production then ?
(maybe the 980, yes)

Peter

[PeterSt]

How about interrupting the power lead (pin 1) to the mouse (or keyboard) with a switch

(emphasis is mine)

Actually ... why not. But make an and of the or. With one switch I mean.

[CoenP]

How about interrupting the power lead (pin 1) to the mouse (or keyboard) with a switch. It is easy to modify a cable or maybe even drill the mouse body and put in a mini toggle  somewhere.  This will have the same effect as unplugging the mouse.

Maybe the system would have to settle for too long after the device is depowered. 

Very nice idea, thanks!

Regards, Coen

[CoenP]

I don't want to hijack my own thread, but I started this one as a topic to be adressed to get SQ on par with my old setup. Since I effectively only changed the mobo and processor (and load on the psu), I expected a little tweaking would improve sound beyond what I was used to.

So far I have been unsuccessfull. The mouse story is one aspect, other areas are experimented with, but the sound refuses to go in the desired direction. Maybe it needs more burn in, but I am not optimistic.

I feel the sound is a little tense and harsh, making listening a less pleasurable experience. Also 'image size' is "small". Small voices, drums, hihats etc. This may very well be related to the power supply, but was no issue on the Atom. The is a lot of detail information jumping around, but this does not add to a captivating musical experience.

Besides the obvious performance limitations of the Atom setup it actually sounded so good that i hardly ever tweaked anything. In fact the new mobo has been layong around my room for more than a month.

If we would only be able to marry the atom sound with the i5 perfromance....

Regards, Coen

[gsbrva]

Yup, I suppose all extra device should be off.

I wonder what is actually causing the sound difference.  Is it due to some additional latency and load when the usb devices are polled or just noise from extra cables and stuff creating a bit of rf.

As I understand it, usb broadcasts all the data to all devices, regardless of the intended destination, so if noise is the issue then maybe the best solution is to have keyboard, mouse and all non-essential usb on one external hub which can have the power removed.  

Since hub ports are actively buffered and if the hub is designed to run off an external power supply (not host power) removing the hub power would block data from travelling on downstream usb cables and also remove the devices from being polled by the cpu.

If you wanted to be really anal (like me!) you could hook up the external hub via a very short usb cable to the computer and switch the hub power to remove the all extra devices and the noise.  

That would leave just the dac device being polled during playback and a minimum of active cables to spread noise. At the end of playback flip one switch and the extra devices come back.

I wouldn't be surpised if mice and such are leaking some noise.  If you've ever opened one, they aren't exactly "broadcast grade".

Just a thought.

Greg

[PeterSt]

Interesting Coen ... (with the appropriate smiley of course, )

This looks like a tough one. And, forget about the burn-in (indeed).
I think we have these options :

1. The load on the Atom caused a pleasing result (SQ).
2. In the new PC something is wrong.
3. Something is wrong all over, which is why #1 applies.

Although possible I think, I don't think #2 will be in order. So, no matter how logical you may think that is for a cause, it would be the first time I'd hear someting like that. Still possible of course ...

What I would do as the first option :
Think back on your XX settings with the Atom. Was the SFS only 30 ? set that again. And the other stuff.
This is more apples and apples now.

The problem will be that all will still be uncomparable, and e.g. looking at those near to continuous peaks on the CPU you had, you won't be able to copy that with the i5. And it will be this what influencED your sound ...

When you understood the above to some degree, I'd like to talk you into the fact (???) that the remainder of your chain is wrong. For me, the logic drips from it. But now how to solve *that* ... (and what will be wrong ??).

Assuming that you don't feel the need to improve on a chain which a few days back was 100% OK to your idea, go back to the Atom. Period.
Have fun again.

If I am correct, you only hopped over the i5 because I noticed the behavior of the Atom being "off" for the XX situation. Ok, nice that you followed me, but now it doesn't work out for you.
Go back.

Peter


PS: But of course everybody is ready to help when you want to continue this route; it is just that now you think about tweaking things which didn't need tweaking before, and so it will be worse and worse, because you don't work on the real cause. This is how sound in audio shops end up so badly ...

[juanpmar]

I work with one computer while I´m listening music with the music PC, which is a dedicated music computer. Now due to professional reasons I had to buy another computer and it has a big Dell monitor. This monitor has a DisplayPort (besides HDMI and DVI) like the GPU in my music computer and like the GPU in the new computer.
I´ve been thinking about using this Dell monitor for both computers and also the same keyboard and mouse. To do it I could use a KVM (Keyboard Video and Mouse) switch like this one: http://eu.startech.com/Server-Management/KVM-Switches/2-Port-DisplayPort-KVM-Switch-with-USB-Peripheral-Sharing~SV231DPU
Of course there are different KVM switches for other kind of connections like VGA, HDMI or DVI but DisplayPort seems to produces less RF interferences besides other advantages: http://fireuser.com/blog/display_port_part_2_of_3/

Wouldn´t it be a good solution for cutting the usb signal from the keyboard and mouse?
I´m not sure however if the KVM switch cuts totally the "inactive" signal.

Regards,
Juan

[CoenP]

Greg and Juan, thanks for thinking along. I have enough ideas now to target the mouse usb thing.

This looks like a tough one. And, forget about the burn-in (indeed).
I think we have these options :

1. The load on the Atom caused a pleasing result (SQ).
2. In the new PC something is wrong.
3. Something is wrong all over, which is why #1 applies.

Although possible I think, I don't think #2 will be in order. So, no matter how logical you may think that is for a cause, it would be the first time I'd hear someting like that. Still possible of course ...

Well, for one thing the atom has peak power in the order of 10 watts, the i5 probably 50 (ex heavy load on gpu) or even more. This makes the peaks on the i5 a seriously heavier load on the psu. Furthermore the powersupply to the processor is more complex (3x4pin connector extra) with more supply and ground path. Good to get the power to the proc but we would never build an audio component that way. I don't consider this as a better way to do things .

Just to tease you I can reverse the reasoning that I never read anywhere that the Atom is bad for sq....

Number 1) certainly applies. If this is due to something wrong might be the case. Bottom line is that it played music the way I like it but it is too impaired for full XX handling (no gapless playback, slow response to any control, limited in its settings like no 'real time', max sfs 140).

As a sidenote I want to remark that it is the sum of things that I feel needs adressing. Sq wise the new setup does excel in some areas but does not deliver the 'magic'.

What I would do as the first option :
Think back on your XX settings with the Atom. Was the SFS only 30 ? set that again. And the other stuff.
This is more apples and apples now.

The problem will be that all will still be uncomparable, and e.g. looking at those near to continuous peaks on the CPU you had, you won't be able to copy that with the i5. And it will be this what influencED your sound ...

At the same settings the peaks occur in the same rythm on the i5 albeit with varying peak height. Maybe something is wrong on my setup afterall? It does not sound the same as the Atom -as expected-, but some settings helped in taking off the edginess. Both going from 'real time' to ' high' and increasing the nos1 driver buffer smooth out and enrich the sound somewhat. Increasing the sfs from 140 to 430 again helps also in gaining naturalness.

When you understood the above to some degree, I'd like to talk you into the fact (???) that the remainder of your chain is wrong. For me, the logic drips from it. But now how to solve *that* ... (and what will be wrong ??).

I can pass the tvc, since I reinstalled it to adress the slow volume response on the Atom. The i5 is fast enough. I have an old gainclone somewhere that needs a box and powersupply, maybe with the nos it can outperform my tubeamp, maybe. (it is in a box for a reason)
Adressing the full system will take to much time and money, besides I wouldn't know in what other direction to go (the best systems I heard allways used tube amps and horns).

Assuming that you don't feel the need to improve on a chain which a few days back was 100% OK to your idea, go back to the Atom. Period.
Have fun again.

If I am correct, you only hopped over the i5 because I noticed the behavior of the Atom being "off" for the XX situation. Ok, nice that you followed me, but now it doesn't work out for you.
Go back.

Handling was the first reason, getting on par with the 'reference' settings another. The Atom is plugging a few connectors away from reuse , but I am not finishet yet. I allow the mobo to get some real milage and there is still a lot of stuff that i have not taken care off.

PS: But of course everybody is ready to help when you want to continue this route; it is just that now you think about tweaking things which didn't need tweaking before, and so it will be worse and worse, because you don't work on the real cause. This is how sound in audio shops end up so badly ...

Maybe it is about the Atom board being simpler and less tweaks were necessary to get it to perform. I am playing with more or less the same things but with more options.

This is an excellent forum with good ideas and knowledgable people so I still have hope that it will be sorted out one day!

Regards, Coen

[PeterSt]

Hi again Coen,

Well, for one thing the atom has peak power in the order of 10 watts, the i5 probably 50 (ex heavy load on gpu) or even more. This makes the peaks on the i5 a seriously heavier load on the psu.

I understand your reasoning and how/why you come to that, but this is not my thinking;
The Atom runs on its limits, so peaks are "over the top" so to speak. But merely : the difference between "nothing needed" and "something needed" is from min to max. Not so with the i5. There -although you may see the 100% just the same- the difference is not to be seen as min vs. max but merely min vs 5% or less of its power. I think the (theoretical) current draw will be the same, but noise implications will not. Compare with a car running at 120Km/h at top speed vs a car running at 120Km/h which can do 250. Which makes the most noise ? Something like that.

But you pointed me to something else ...

the i5 probably 50 (ex heavy load on gpu)

I really never thought about it, but this could be a bad thing, inherent to the 2600's (them containing graphic support).
Maybe it can be switched off in the BIOS ? if so, getting yourself a 70 euro graphic adapter may be worth trying.
I am also not sure what shutting off the monitor (like how XXHighEnd can do it) will bring for real merits in this on board gpu situation.

Hmm ...

Peter

[CoenP]

Fwiw the Atom (cedar trail) has the same gpu as the 2600. Nevertheless it is an interesting line of thought that I will test tonight.

On the cpu side, I have it still running with EIST on so it is actually clocked at 1.6 Ghz at light loads and turboing on peak demand. Power signature should be minimal with short peaks. I have no means to check cpu powerdraw, but I can imagine the i5 having a bigger powerdifference between low and high cpu (peaking) tahn the atom.

Well the proef is in the pudding as we sayhere, I will report back.

Thanks, Coen

[PeterSt]

but I can imagine the i5 having a bigger powerdifference between low and high cpu (peaking) tahn the atom.

Maybe (as I said, still 100%). But look at the duration of it. Think heat (brief changes). Think thermal noise.

... and keep in mind is that it is exactly this what XXHighEnd "operates" upon. This is why it has to be of importance ...

Peter

[PeterSt]

I can pass the tvc, since I reinstalled it to adress the slow volume response on the Atom.

FYI :
This would be a typicle example of "your chain" being wrong. And (please accept this) : the better the source, the worse something like this will make it.
If I had to play through my TVC again I would stop listening to music at all instantly. There is no way this "works" anymore.

So, this is about the theory that the Atom actually is worse, therefore not that better source, and now suddenly those "filtering means" (because that's what it is) are for the better. All relative of course, but really, when the source is (so) good, nothing is allowed to filter behind it.

Don't change amps as long you can try simple things like this.
Do you have expensive interlinks ? try with cheap ones. Go back to basics first.

But also :
At full gain, do you perceive noise through the speakers ? (yes with your TVC you sure do). If that is the case, please forget about getting things optimal. I'm still not saying that you now must change amps, but you *will* be stuck to other means of filtering out unlinearities. It will get better of it, but it will never be as intended. Please trust me.

Peter

[CoenP]

A small update.

The videocard I had in the drawer is not willing to play video, nevertheless that route gave me one usefull insight.
Since the Atom D525 and i5 share the same GPUnit, they are not clocked at the same frequency. The Atom supports only 400MHz whilst the i5 is standard on 1100 MHz. In the Bios I "underclocked' the i5 Videofrequency to 400 MHz and voila a very nice SQ improvent occurred!

Most of the artifical, "pinched" quality of the sound is gone now and an extra octave of low end seems to have appeared.

I wonder If an external card brings more to the bank. I think I am going to score a "el cheapo" passive 5450...

More about the noise and TVC later.

regards, Coen

[gsbrva]

Hi Coen,

Thanks for the interesting report.  Just curious, do you use a ground lift on the monitor plug? 

I'm also curious about the EL95 amp.  Is it actually pentode connected and no feedback loop.

Greg

[CoenP]

Hi Greg,

No tweaks on the vga plug, the powerconnector-ground is connected to the PC and NOS1 powerconn-grounds (the amps are "floating").

I can use the EL95 because my speakers are 103+ dB per Watt (on a meter distance) and favour a high outputimpedance. I took a philips ag9016 as basis; now only a few components are still in use, including the tiny outputs!
In a nutshell: the outputtubes are triode connected, the amp/driver has a complete new psu and I use 3dB of global feedback. Most work has gone into the PSUs.

It sounds fast and gorgeous and is way more versatile than my ultra complex all DHT setup (which is being dismantled). The most amazing thing is that I hardly ever experience a lack of dynamics or limitations on the low and high end.

To get back on the thread: there is very little noise coming from these amps. I have to put my ear into the horns to hear a slight hiss that should be there given the aged tubes and high value carbon resistors. There is less noise that the SS amps I had on the horns (including the gainclone). Inevitably there is a slight hum from the AC heating.

regards, Coen

[CoenP]

The forum is a little qiet now so here's a little reading for you all.

Following on the suggestion to disable the igp to quieten the cpu some more I ordered a low end Radeon 5450 HTPC videocard. I've been experimenting with this 'Passive' and silent solution (there was once a time videocards did not need active cooling) to get some new insights.

I have to say I sighed of relief when I ripped it out of the pc after many hours of frustration. First about fixing the !@&?! thing in its slot, secondly about the software that is cr*p to the operation of xx. My clockres was frequently hijacked and then some gremlins launched a truckload of services into operation that were hard to kill. It was a pita to sweep the pc clean from all the unneccesary stuff. Next time i am allways going to perform a custom install with only the driver and that was't even the 'preferred mode of operation' for this setup.
And last but no least about the compressed, hazy and chunky sound that no matter what I did refused to change its character for the better. Now i am listening to the naturalness and musicality that are the great traits of the signature nos1 usb setup (as far as I am concerned of course). Furthermore I allmost got a cardiac arrest from extremely loud pops in a reboot sequence. If these are the infamous switch off pops, start to distrust your videocard as this is shurely related. Note that thare are pops in my usual setup but not as loud by a far margin.
Oh and above sq observations were with the monitor off by xx!

What can we learn from this? Well maybe the igp is not such a bad idea afterall. Its powerconsumption has to be lower that the 5450, that btw gets freakin hot (like musical fedelity A1 hot), doing nothing. You also can't get any better communication between cpu and gpu if such a thing matters when the monitor is turned to sleep. Imagine all those bits travelling on the PCIE bus to the soundcard and sharing their lanes with precious disc IOs. With the IGP all you have to do is make shure the graphics clock is set to the lowest possible level and you're in business.
On the positive side, the graphics flied like never before with the card on place.

Maybe someone else can share his (her?) findings on this mouse and soundcard thing.

Happy listening,

Regards, Coen

[juanpmar]

Hi Coen,

I use also a passive graphic card and never had a problem. No pops at all and great sound. So maybe the problem is not in the graphic card but in the way both cards, the integrated one and the GA-Z68X-UD3H relate each other.

I can´t help you directly because I don´t use an integrated card but reading the specification of your Gigabyte mb it says:

Expansion slots: 
1 x PCI Express x16 slot, running at x16 (PCIEX16)
* For optimum performance, if only one PCI Express graphics card is to be installed, be sure to install it in the PCIEX16 slot.

1 x PCI Express x16 slot, running at x8 (PCIEX8)
* The PCIEX8 slot shares bandwidth with the PCIEX16 slot. When the PCIEX8 slot is populated with a PCI Express graphics card, the PCIEX16 slot will operate at up to x8 mode.

Maybe all of that has something to do with the problem you have.

Btw, this is my graphic card: http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3584#ov.

and here also a new interesting silent card: http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?cid=1&gid=3&sgid=1159&pid=1471&psn=&lid=1&leg=0

Best regards,
Juan

[CoenP]

Hi Juan,

According to bios settings the igp is disabled when another graphics card has been inserted. I cannot explicitly disable the igp. I used it on the 16x slot.

Maybe you're right and is some stuff still running on the igp graphics side. I also distrust any extra loading of the psu, it should be able handle the extra 15watts easily, but probably with some extra noise on the important 12v supply.

Do you have any gigabyte graphics supporting software running?

Regards, Coen

[juanpmar]

Hi Coen,

No, I don´t have any extra software installed, just the gp drivers, but to tell you the truth now I don´t remember if I installed the drivers from the cd that came in the box or if I downloaded it. As I never had a problem I wasn´t worried about it. Maybe some other people with both gpi and dedicated cards installed can help. Anyway, I don´t think the problem is due to if the gp is passive or not, could you try with other gp to see what happens?. Try also with the most recent drivers of your passive gp.

Best regards,
Juan

[CoenP]

Thanks Juan,

I will give it another shot on the 8x slot and with the latest driver. If it is a motherboard/chipset thing I should end up with similar -cr*ppy- results.

In the mean time Peter is tapped into the multiverse and preparing xx07 to new groundbreaking heights. Like all I am on the verge of boiling with anticipation!

Regards, Coen

[boleary]

Has anyone ever tested whether an igp is better for SQ than a dedicated card? As Coen stated above, an igp would use a lot less power. Is there any similarity concerning the effect on SQ between usb mouse, keyboard and a dedicated video card and PS/2 mouse, keyboard and an integrated video card?

Just wondering....

[CoenP]

Fwiw I did a brief comparison in the post above. Yet I have a board with integrated graphics that might interfere with the card. If that is true a comparison is only possible with different boards/chipsets and then it is very hard to isolate the influence.

I haven't been checking all options but sofar the mouse is less detrimental to SQ in my setup than the card. The effects of the usb mouse are more subtle.

I encourage anyone with integrated graphics to put my observations to the test.

Regards, Coen

[gsbrva]

I think it's too much generalizing to say that integrated graphics are better for SQ.

I've assembled many computers over the years for my personal use.  Some were great from the start, others were lemons.  Usually with the lemons, after some time I would discover one of the following problems:

1)  Bad power supply - works but is providing dirty power for whatever reason - sagging voltages or noise

2)  Bad memory chip in either main memory or graphics

3)  Something running hot - usually a bridge chip that should have had a big heatsink or a fan in the original design.

4)  Bad driver for some piece of hardware.

I'd say half of all the machines I put together had some sort of hardware problem.  Often it's the kind of thing you only notice if you use the computer a lot and have a feel for it.  I would blame myself, but I've found major brand computers to have similar defects. 

Don't trust the hardware.  If you are getting odd or inconsistent results start swapping parts until you track it down.

I'd be very surprised if a cpu had any characteristic sound of it's own.  Likewise for graphics chips, unless a particular card is defective or poorly designed.

Hey Coen,

I asked before if your monitor power cord was grounded.  I find that to be a bad idea, even if it's plugged into the same outlets as the computer.  I'm not sure if I understood your answer, but if you are not lifting the monitor ground, you might give it a try.  Let it ground through the shield of the graphics cable.  On my system grounding the monitor is a problem, even if it's turned off.  With analog CRT type monitors, you could see the circulating ground currents in the picture if you looked carefully. 

This is an interesting test.  How about disconnecting the monitor cable from the port on the computer.  Does that have an effect on the sound?  Maybe you did that already.

Greg

[PeterSt]

I think it's too much generalizing to say that integrated graphics are better for SQ.

Hi Greg - Maybe I didn't follow everything to the letter, but without that I'd say nobody is saying this. It can turn out to be the result of course, but in advance ...

In advance I myself merely think it will be the other way around. Based on nothing much though.

and ...

I'd be very surprised if a cpu had any characteristic sound of it's own.

They won't. But it is the enviroment, or what they have to do which sure *does* give that signature. So, for example, load all the graphics stuff on to the normal CPU, and I'm fairly sure sound will be bad. CPU stayed the same ...

Peter

[CoenP]

I have qualified the seperate videocard finally as unlistanable in my system. Actally the 'working' variant with IGP doen't deliver either but remains listanable. Unfortunaletly it has that 'yawn, could I care less about this good sound?' kind of quality. A cardinal sin in my opinion.

The story is of course not over. The mobo is heavily suspect. Reinstalling the atom immediately improved on the 'wow this is great music' factor, booted faster and was completely silent. I have been noticing a high pitched noise from my pc. That I attribited to a relocated HD, but this nooise is absent on the atom.

Save for handling (where it all started) the atom is superior on all accounts save for the highs in percussive elements. Let's not forget the two ps/2 ports that are the origin of this thread.  Maybe I gan get it to work -my way- with a different mobo. Since Peter frequently mentions the highs to indicate improvements there must be some untapped potential in the i5.

Now I am going to enjoy music again in anticipation of 09z7.

Regards, Coen

[boleary]

Just wondering if anyone with a newer mobo with only one PS/2 connection has tried using a PS/2 splitter (they exist) to hook up both mouse and keyboard?

[CoenP]

Hi,

I did this and it didn't work. The splitter is not in the formal dual ps2 port standard which is an OR configuration. It was assumed that either the mouse or keyboard use USB.

The custom implementation of a two function AND PS/2 combiport has been in use with mostly older laptops that were supplied with the splitters in the cable set.

The manual of any modern mobo will quickly inform you about the OR nature of this port.

Unfortunately.

Regards, Coen

[boleary]

Thanks Coen. Learn something new every day.