Get ready ? (0.9z-7)

[PeterSt]

Sometimes I can't stop myself ...
This is such an occasion.

Not to placebo you, but merely to challenge for the contrary later (I'm serious !), I sometimes feel the urge to anounce something which should be theoretically right, while I am not sure myself. This - and surely this time, because it seems too crazy.

Mind you please : I am using an NOS1 and my perspective could be subject to that. But I don't think so, and I don't hope so on behalf of those not owning an NOS1.
Here goes :

A few weeks back I applied a change in the software which is one about explicit sound improvement. Not only "a nice idea" but merely based upon a theory I had for quite a while.

Now, after listening to this for these couple of weeks, and at running into more albums I play regularly - but which still get their turn only once in the X months, I don't know what to say anymore.
Well, I noticed myself asking one question day before yesterday : Is it really so that *this* can still be improved ?

I don't know how to explain it.
Ok. One of the albums which sounds so superb since 0.9z-6 is Let it Bleed. It is a typicle album I play once in a while because it is great, but also because it appeared to be subjective to improvement just because it is "old". And, as NOS1 (especially -USB) owners know, the better it all gets, the more crazily good old recordings appear to be. A secret within itself, and nice to experience.

So, it was only maybe two months back I played Let it Bleed, and I could have dedicated it as the best sounding recording from back then (1969). Even with something like a stupid Stones. Mind you, I'm talking about the original issue, not any hires or the like.

Day before yesterday I ran into it again, and felt like listening to it because all improved so much again.
I didn't even recognize it anymore ...

... and I really thought to now dedicate it (on this forum) as the best sounding recording ever.
Okay, I did not, because I know that I need to listen to another few albums first, but it is just to give you the idea.

A maybe stupid thing is that during the first two weeks of this software novelty I just played to me unfamiliar music. Sounded great too, and all I noticed that more than common ended up in my "Nice Stuff" Gallery. This was a first indication.

Today it is hard for me to imagine that this is really caused by this software change and it merely feels like my NOS1 has jumped another leap of burn-in. Seems crazy for the 7 months I have it up and running now; it has to be that software ...


0.9z-7 is not ready yet and I hope it won't take too long anymore now. But, a little dangerous because I want too many things in which are not ready yet. It will be the largest upgrade ever anyway.
By the time, please let me know whether I got crazy, got obsessed by placeboes, or whether my ears finally opened and nothing changed at all.
Or that it is real ...

Peter

[listening]

We love your imagination 

[gsbrva]

I have noticed in my own listening that when a system starts to be very believable, smaller changes or improvements seem to have larger than expected results.

With the best analog setup I had, it seemed like even bad sounding records somehow sounded good.  I mean, you could hear all the distortion and mistakes in the studio and mastering, but none of these things were intermodulated and were just interesting, not usually sources of listening fatigue. 

I haven't had this experience yet with digital, but I want to.  You give me hope that digital can in fact get there.  Many thanks for all the hard work Peter and looking forward to the next release!

   

[Flecko]

I think this kind of perception change is totaly normal for an hi(gh)-fi addict (as we all are)
After I made some significant improvement of my PC-Playback I found again, xxhe is the best sounding player. But perception of things changed again too....also have a theory about that but I will tell more later...
I am very curious about yor findings!

[phantomax]

 
Sorry for my english
Maxi

[stefanobilliani]

Hello Peter and All ,

I have a question for the next version . since the last one is working so well now in my pc ;
Will I have before install to turn the system back to the original state from the minimized os ?
I guess the instructions will explain me all , but I am getting curious for the new changes 

[PeterSt]

Good question Stefano.

No, I wouldn't know why. But if so (like something needs to be officially installed) it will be in the Release Notes.

Regards,
Peter

[Scroobius]

Hi Peter,

Above you describe a big improvement in sound quality *possibly* down to 9z-7 or then tantalisingly maybe not. But then I remembered some time ago you described a problem with your ears (and doors and closed rooms etc) if I remember rightly that is - could it be that your ears suddenly "popped" and that now you can hear clearly again. No surely not!!! - certainly I hope not because I would always want to hear yet further improvements due to software.

Ha ha

Paul

[phantomax]

The thread of this, my experience is that before the last XX version there were some albums that theoretically had to sound good but in practice  sounded bright and harsh. Well, now are among the best sounding. It seems to me that there are some "special" recordings  that only sound good under certain conditions but in those conditions they sound really good.
 PS. I have not learned English suddenly. This is a google translation.

[PeterSt]

Haha. But :

Sorry for my english
Maxi

In an earlier post you said this. But is the actual text missing in there ?

Regards,
Peter

[PeterSt]

Hi Peter,

But then I remembered some time ago you described a problem with your ears (and doors and closed rooms etc) if I remember rightly that is - could it be that your ears suddenly "popped" and that now you can hear clearly again.

Of course that is what I have been thinking about. But as you know I'm not alone here, and the other(s) perceive is as clear ly.
Anyway, ears are okay again for a couple of weeks now - I hope that stays for a while.

[phantomax]

Ehh... well, the text is the icon itself. I wanted to say I was wondering what kind of improvement could be and what a great expectation I had. I obviously did not clearly express it.

[PeterSt]

Ha ha. Ok.

I can't express what is goling to change otherwise than "much more fresh sound". So, the highs coming more forward without that being wong.

Think a bit like the difference between Normal and Minimized OS for the "measure" (quantity) of the difference.
I myself am not sure how to describe the difference other than the somewhat technical "more fresh". But it also incurs for something like Let it Bleed not being recognizeble. So there is more.

Maybe it is not even good - but I think it is ...

Peter

[phantomax]

Mmmmm...I burn with impatience

Best regards
Maxi

[pedal]

I can't express what is goling to change otherwise than "much more fresh sound". So, the highs coming more forward without that being wrong.

This sounds very interesting.

Generally speaking, the "voicing" of the treble and the "character" of the treble is very critical in a system. Every seasoned Hi-Fi enthusiast knows this from swapping cables, adjusting toe-in of loudspeakers or modifying passive X-Overs. Differences as small as a fraction of a dB, is detectable in the treble range, a range where our hearing is most sensitive.

Anyway, I have made several improvements to my system lately. Apart from the NOS1 USB DAC (a big step up!), I have tried out a lot of cables, various loudspeaker positions, room acoustic treatments, active XO settings, etc, etc.

Now I am really, really, happy with my sound quality. BUT, my system is so low in colorations and distortion, that I welcome a slightly more "present" treble.

It is completely wrong to say that present version of XX is soft or dark sounding. It is not. I love it, being sooo natural and pure. Several guests have called it the "best treble they ever heard".

But personally I think there is still something missing compared with real life. I always thought it was the limitation of the media/recording*, but if Peter has a "trick" I am very curious to try it.

To put this in perspective: I tried some pure silver/Teflon IC with rather thin conductors. They did have a more lively treble, BUT at a cost. It took away the focus from the holly midrange. After some days I got tired from "listening to treble". -So the effect has to be subtle.

Perhaps 0.9z-7 will be another step closer to truth? I can't wait to try it out!

*I have heard a few horn systems, including Peter’s system, who does manage to project the treble in a slightly more lifelike way, than my ribbon tweeters. If  I can close this gap, I would be very happy.

[manisandher]

0.9z-7... will be the largest upgrade ever anyway.

Hey Peter, I hope I speak for the majority of XX users...

I would be more than happy to pay a new license fee for 0.9z-7. It just seems to me that this is not an 'update' but a major 'new release'. Even if you don't want to force all existing users to pay for a new license, I personally would be happy to do so voluntarily as a gesture of how much I appreciate all the work you've put into this. Unless you're in any way offended by my suggestion, I will make a payment into the Phasure PayPal account.

Mani.

[PeterSt]

Dear Mani,

You actually can't guess how close you are to my own thoughts where your good reason of all the work is only one relatively small part of it, and the other is a kind of "secret". But, you just gave me a nice opportunity to vent about it a little without saying what it really is about. But to summarize what I *can* express, it is about these things anyway :

I dove into too many items which (apparently) needed explicit attention lateron. An example could be the kind of hard work on those "dongles" thing, while it only can work with guidance which needs days to compose by itself.

I don't know how it happened, but all major parts (each taking months to finish) suddenly need those extensive descriptions. This, while really none has been there so far, and close to one-liner Release Notes could do.

It looks like I have been too mart or something, and created "generic" features, which don't even allow myself to explore them, let alone it can be layed out how they exactly work. Actually it is the opposite of how things should be : no buttons, no dials, and just press Play which doesn't need any manual.

Creating something which finally allows remote control is nice, but when extended to iPad/Andoid stuff, I clearly see that that is a world within itself, and things like selecting a good app for the Android is/was only the beginning. I appeared to be a co-operation between that app and what it lacks, and what thus must be in "our" software to really accomplish the job nicely. It even goes as far that (when not careful) other soft-keyboard apps are needed, and selecting them in theory takes a day, without installing even one for testing. When that is done it needs the hyperlinks and the advice about settings and stuff. This, while I am not even clear about the settings of the selected "RDP" app itself, because again it co-oporates with our software.
Suddenly all lights in all tunnels have become very far away.

A most major part of XXHighEnd is so new that it really will need maybe 20 pages of explanation to start with it. None of this has been done yet, and I feel like leaving out the functionality, rather.

When I said two weeks back that I may be needing 1-2 hours for explicit tablet operation, I was wrong because since then I spent all my time on it (but almost finished now). And yes I em enhusiast about it, but clearly I don't know what I'm starting - like all the elements for this version. So, Nobel Prize stuff worked within a day, but took hundreds and hundreds of hours to have it working for "you". How could I know, and how could I stop with it.

BTW, DSD playback *is* a subject I was to wise to cut it for the time being. So that too took a couple of weeks, but I just had to stop because I saw it was postponing 0.9z-7. Ehm, I think this was last December.

CRAZY

No, I am not complaiing at all, but I took up just too many subjects which all looked easy to accomplish, while by some stupid accident all were not. And as you know Mani, for sheer psycholicial reasons I should be doing some other things first. Yes, that is since November already. Like you need to paint your house and postponing that will let it collapse soon. So, something like that, and this bothers.

But why it is so convenient for me that your brought up the subject like you did ? well, because I *need* another means of licensing the product and I don't know how to do it other than let people obtain it again *or* be burried under uncountable emails and a manual procedure. I wrote 50-60 pages about how to approach this and at this time I still don't know how to do it. I have in my mind that if there's one time to get rid of this ever lasting beta stuff it is now, but for legal reasons I should jump to version 2.0 right away. Why ? well, you all payed for 1.xx - never mind it has been 0.xx so far. In the mean time though I am technically not able to let people upgrade for an upgrade price and let new customers pay a full price. Or maybe I can, but then I have to work out *that* and this is not only theoretical paper work, but needs to be programmed as well. So, again another job to finish and it can't go without it.
In the mean time I rather finish the tablet operation because I can see what to do there.

All 'n all I am smiling at the title of this topic, and now wonder who should have been prepared for 0.9z7 or whatever.
ME !

Hey, I guess this comes across somewhat sad, but I really am not; I love to do this all. It is only that the more I finish the more descriptions it needs and the further away things get. Haha.

Thank you Mani and all, for your thoughtfulness.
Peter


PS: And how to come up with an out of beta version without a decent manual ? See, all I do is create more "problems".

[arvind]

Hi Mani,

I am in complete agreement with your suggestion. Let us show our appreciation for the innumerable painstaking hours spent by Peter to bring joy to our passion.

Though this would only be drop in the ocean but its the thought that counts.

Arvind

[listening]

Hi Mani,

I agree too. I had so much pleasure the last months I can not say it with simple words.

Georg

[manisandher]

Hmmm...

Well, I suspect my suggestion will sound naive and is probably not practical, but why not consider 'XX 2.0' a totally new product? Everyone pays a new full license for it. If people don't want or can't afford to do this, that's fine - they just stick with 0.9z-6 (which you can continue to support for bug fixes).

I'd go further and start charging for major upgrades too - e.g. if/when DSD playback is introduced...

This isn't really about money, it's more about 'value'. Anyone who's taken the time to truly explore XX's current capability knows it's head and shoulders above anything else right now. God only knows (well, Peter too!) how far the new version will take the SOTA of computer playback. This has a value to music lovers far in excess of the €100-€200 (or whatever) the new license might cost.

And I for one feel almost embarrassed that I've not had to pay a penny for any upgrades these last few years.

Mani.

[esimms86]

I also fully agree with Mani's suggestion of paying for a new licensing fee. The previous fee was 72 euros but I wonder if even that is enough considering all of the R&D that has gone into the making of the revamped XXHE. I also expect that there will be a fee for purchasing a new app from the Apple store for connecting XXHE to the iPad(I don't have an Android device so I can't speak for that platform). In any event, I would gladly pay both fees.

Esau

[TimDH]

I too appreciate all the time that Peter evidently takes to make XXHighEnd better.  I'm happy to pay for a new license. 

One idea: for a manual it might actually be better to have editors besides Peter. It's not only your English, Peter! It's that you're very close to the product and it would be good to have some of it written by users.  I wonder if there could be a wiki and/or Google/Dropbox set of documents that at least some users could edit and develop once 0.9z-7 is released.

[Robert]

Perhaps release beta to your close trusted supporters to assist you in writing instructions.

I can see the issue, first for a newcomer to get there head around what you have created then to write it into understandable instructions is tricky. It is better from you but this task is almost to big alone.

Or just release it and let everyone go mad.

If the sonic difference is big then V2 is in order new fee.

[juanpmar]

I, as anyone else, appreciate Peter´s work and also I´m conscious that he´s receiving little financial reward in return. I wonder even if that exhausting work situation is sustainable without a proper financial support. What I can say is that any decision Peter takes in this regard will have my support.

Best regards,
Juan

[praphan]

Hi Guys,

I am fully aligned with this thought. It's time for Peter to commercialize this state-of-the-art product to niche market in an aggressive way.

Any marketing expert around in this forum? I am sure we are more than happy to be of help (if Peter needs one).

Product segmentation- basic XXHE (refined version of 0.9 z-6),  XXHE Plus (noble prize version), future add on, etc.

Pricing strategy - entry pricing to tap wider customer base, premium pricing for nich market, consumer vs professional licensing , etc.

Aggressive promotion campaign

Just my two cents.

Best regards,
Praphan

[listening]

 Hi Praphan,

that's not possible in the short-term, I believe. But another aspect: I always liked Peter's approach to deliver the bare and well thought function in contrast to the comfort of the user interface or modularity. It's the best Peter gives us. If commercializing means more eye-cathing features and comfort instead of functionality - I would missa lot     

Georg

[praphan]

Hi Georg,

I love the tweakability of XXHE too. I think Peter and all of us here want to keep it this way. This is why this product should attract and penetrate "niche market". Mass consumers including my wife will hardly touch this barebone and complicated looking software. To get the best out of XXHE, successful users require relatively good PC literacy both hardware and OS wise.

But with proper marketing plan, I am positive that this fine product will be able to capture wider "niche market". Perhaps Peter might consider launching XXHE to a wider online market coverage by restructuring the product website. Phasure.com is more or less a forum-base at the moment giving an impression to general public that the product is still under R&D.

I am no marketing expert. Better leave this to Peter for now. 



Best regards,
Praphan

[christoffe]

If commercializing means more eye-cathing features and comfort instead of functionality - I would missa lot     

Georg

Hi Georg,

that's it, real high class SQ/music and some stretching if I go to the keyboard/mouse.

Prices:
JRivers costs $ 50 with an superb GUI, and an update $20.
Amarra 2.4 now down to € 178,00 incl. VAT.

Joachim

[stefanobilliani]

Phasure.com is more or less a forum-base at the moment giving an impression to general public that the product is still under R&D.

But when we listen to music , we know that IT IS a very good piece of work alright now . Then let's not forget as Peter said , this is also "thanks" to the contribution of all the people right on the forum pages , discussing and reporting about their own experiences with the software *and* the music .

Having said that , I would be proud to accept any decision regarding the licence in the future .

Of course , by the fact we partecipate to the forum(s) , we want to learn new things and take decisions regarding hardware and lots of other stuff . So thanks, all of you in this wonderful forum .

s

[pedal]

I agree 100 percent with Mani's suggestion!

(I allways thought there was a decimal missing in the price tag of XX).

Pedal

[AUDIODIDAKT]

Although paying more wont solve the *problem* directly.
its about time rather than money.
 

[Nick]

I am  also with Mani on his point,

I have had years of pleasure and fun from the XXHE licence and have no problems with relicencing when the time comes.

Best,

Nick.

[Scroobius]

My vote goes with Mani (well said) - I get enormous pleasure from my system and it preforms in a different league with XX and NOS

Paul

[christoffe]

And I for one feel almost embarrassed that I've not had to pay a penny for any upgrades these last few years.

Mani.

Hi All,

we are all waiting for release 0.9z-7, and we are waiting, and waiting ..... .

My proposal.

A)
0.9z-7 will be released without the "Blue Tooth" manual for the tablet now.

B)
XXH with the "Blue Tooth" manual for the tablet, which still has to be finished and will take a while, shall be issue 2.0 and everybody has to pay an upgrade price. This upgrade price should be the same as for a new license.

best Joachim

[JohanZ]

 

[GerardA]

I agree with all of you that Peter has done and still is doing a wonderfull job.

But what a strange thing to decide that everybody has to pay extra because some of you feel guilty for getting so much for so little!

If you feel you have to pay extra don't hold back or hide behind the rest. But don't force others to do that too!

The biggest part of your enjoyment is thanks to the NOS1 DAC, so maybe pay a little extra for that!

Peter no offence but you know how we Dutch are. 

[christoffe]

-Quote-
Dear Mani,

You actually can't guess how close you are to my own thoughts where your good reason of all the work is only one relatively small part of it, and the other is a kind of "secret". But, you just gave me a nice opportunity to vent about it a little without saying what it really is about. But to summarize what I *can* express, it is about these things anyway :

-Unquote-

That is a part of Peters reply to Manis proposal on June 15.
----------------------
I have no problems to get an update for my two licenses for nothing.

This is a typical behavior all around Europe/World, trying to get real good products for ZERO EUROS, but for ZERO you will get no quality.

Joachim

P.S. - Another proposal:
a MINI Version
a Light Version and
a Premium Version

similar to AMARRA

[Robert]

To be honest judging by all who contribute to this forum we want it all, no half measures. I certainly do!!!!!!!!!!!

[PeterSt]

Nobody needs to worry and nothing strange will occur. Or at least no illogical things will happen like everybody needing to pay again for something he has already paid for.

Peter