Please help with new install

[charliemb]

[editorial: OS is Vista 32 , which reports 3.3GB of RAM]

I'm having these issues 1) and 2):

1) I was told that I can play from the network, which is where all my music files are stored.   Now, when I tell xxHE that my music folder is on the network, it gives the error that it must be a folder.  I'm not going to move my collection, does this mean that I should forget about XXHE?

(This would be dissapointing since I just bought and installed 4GB or RAM just for XXHE)

[Editorial: the following was kind of resolved by resizing all the panes.  Can be ignored]
2) I installed .9z-5-2.  It does not look right at all.   The interface is all warped.   I can't see the tabs.  In general, the interface looks nothing like what I see on this board. 

Also, I never saw the 10 screens to which I should uncheck the show this message box.

What could be causing these issues? 

Thanks

[PeterSt]

Hi Charlie,

Re 2, I assume you don't use the fonts at 100% (this is an OS setting).
Notice that the smallest buttons on the left give you acces to presets of the form "sizes"; that may help you. But I assume it is solved for you anyway at this moment.

About the "must be a folder" message - yes, this is true, or otherwise you music can't be discerned from non-music. But it is easy to solve or try :
Make that folder "Music" or something in the root of the drive concerned. Next select all the album folders and drag them upon that new folder. Now they have been "moved" into there (within a second). You can move them back to the root if you want, later (when you feel you don't want this anyway).

Another theoretical solution is to make a Gallery, but that requires the album folders on that network drive to appear in the Library Area first. You may need to fuss around a little to get that done (per the selection of what shows in the Library Area at the bottom), and maybe you won't succeed anyway. But if that works, from then on you can use that Gallery to play from. Btw, a Gallery also needs to be a folder and furthermore it is good use to create sub-sections (folders) under it like \Music\jazz and Music\Rock etc.

I am quite sure this explanation was too brief to understand, but hopefully it will do anyway ...

Peter

[charliemb]

For the non-gallery method: I presume you mean to create a local folder on the root of the OS drive (there's no other drive).

I assume that because a proper folder structure already exists on the network drive where the music already resides and when I try to point to it with \\machine\sharedFolder, I get the "must be a folder" message.

But, if you really do mean to create a folder Music on the OS drive, and if I drag the two music network-shared folders there, won't that try to copy all of the music to the local OS drive from the network drive (there's not enough space and it would take two weeks to complete)?

Seems that won't work either. 

[PeterSt]

But, if you really do mean to create a folder Music on the OS drive, and if I drag the two music network-shared folders there, won't that try to copy all of the music to the local OS drive from the network drive

Okay, this one only for now (it's the most easy one if you are willing to apply it) :

No ... What you should do is create that \Music\ (etc.) folder on the Network drive, and drag the momentary Album Folders (which are in the root in your situation) on to that new folder. So, next they will be "in a folder" and all will be ok (and this doesn't copy, only "moves" the folder data within a second).

If you want to do this, it is solved.
But let me know ...

Regards,
Peter

[charliemb]

If you want to do this, it is solved.

I did one better; instead, I shared the folder directly above the music folder (i.e., I shared "My Documents" on the network computer).  That works in that I now have a music root that is \\machineName\My Documents\My Music\ .
Everything is blue and I no longer get warning that it must be a folder.  Looks good.   But then....

Everything seems to work: xxHE shows all the album art for albums A - H _{(what happend to I - Z?)}.  I think, "I'm there!"    NO.  I'm not.  I double click an album and xxHE loads all of the tracks.  Looks good, right?  NO.  Now I get another error that says "No tracks found to play; please check for disk full."

Now what?   

[PeterSt]

Haha - not sure. All I know is that the Demo version allows for something like 100 results in the Library Area. So that will "bug" you for sure.

I double click an album and xxHE loads all of the tracks.  Looks good, right?  NO.  Now I get another error that says "No tracks found to play; please check for disk full."

... You really must help *me* with finding out what could be going on here. I mean, I don't see a reason for this to happen. So, can you please compare with other situations and try to narrow this down to what's really happening ?

Thanks
Peter

[charliemb]

How about this:  Is there some kind of watch dog timer for how long it takes to load a file, or to get an open handle?   This is one suspicion I have.  If loading off the network all the way to memory, the whole song, it will take some 20 or 30 seconds perhaps?  (I don't know since JRiver plays immediately, even if I enable play from memory from within JR.)

[PeterSt]

Haha, I think you forget a couple of things to tell. I mean, this little problem wasn't mentioned by you before, so why suddenly now ? Is it because you now load the album via the Library Area ? IOW :

At first you could play, probably by means of dragging tracks or folders into the Playlist Area, right ? So, doing this via the Library Area *shouldn't* make a difference. If it does, you must help me with the how (because I say it does not ). Btw, your double-clicking the coverart is an official way to get an album in the Playlist Area, but at least I never do that. I always use the "down arrow" button (opposite of Eject). Maybe there's a difference.

But also :
The message you mention comes forth from the "result" track not being found. So, think about FLAC conversion, and now the WAV file can't be found. I cannot imagine how this happens in your case, but it sure can be related to where XXHighEnd resides and what your "playback drive" is. For example, when you have put XXHighEnd on that same network drive, you almost 100% sure can expect problems because all will be too slow. Thus, XXHighEnd must be on the OS disc, or another internal (faster) disc.
To take out some fuzzyness for you and for now : activate "Copy to XX Drive" in the settings. In that case you can be sure that the tracks will always be copied to the drive XXHighEnd is installed, and played from there. This also makes it more easy for me to interpret what is going on.
But remember, I say there won't be a difference with working from the Library Area compared to dragging in tracks. So it must be something else what bugs you.

Peter


PS: JR starts to play immediately because it is no real memory player. For this example (plays right away) it "violates" memory playback because it is still reading from disc at first (when it's done it's done). In XXHighEnd this can be compared a little with the "Start Playback during Conversion" possibilily, but now at the Playlist (or say Album) level. So, a complete track is converted first all right, but now playback starts when the second (and all) still need to be converted (which now thus happens during playback). This is not exactly the idea for the best sound.
A real memory player really takes some more ...

[charliemb]

Haha, I think you forget a couple of things to tell. I mean, this little problem wasn't mentioned by you before, so why suddenly now ?

Because I could not imagine anything else.
The other possibility I can imagine is the the network drive is read only.
Will read only-cause this?

Is it because you now load the album via the Library Area ? IOW :

No, I usually have always loaded from the Library Area by doubleclicking the folder.  The other way is by using the explorer button for single tracks w/no coverArt.

At first you could play, probably by means of dragging tracks or folders into the Playlist Area, right ?

As above (no). 
Let's be clear, I've never been able to play from the network, not once has this worked.
The only thing that has worked so far has been for files that I've pre-copied to the OS drive.

So, doing this via the Library Area *shouldn't* make a difference. If it does, you must help me with the how (because I say it does not ). Btw, your double-clicking the coverart is an official way to get an album in the Playlist Area, but at least I never do that. I always use the "down arrow" button (opposite of Eject). Maybe there's a difference.

I agree, it does not make a difference.
I'll try the down arrow and report if that makes any difference.

But also :
The message you mention comes forth from the "result" track not being found. So, think about FLAC conversion, and now the WAV file can't be found. I cannot imagine how this happens in your case, but it sure can be related to where XXHighEnd resides and what your "playback drive" is.

I have no wave files.  I only have .aif and .flac and .dsf.
Maybe this is the problem?  Are you converting aif to wav?   (both are PCM)

..."Copy to XX Drive" ...

Thanks, I'll try that.

[PeterSt]

Will read only-cause this?

Yes, if only "something" directs the result files (always WAV) to the network drive/share. This can also be a filled-in Temporary Files folder (in Settings). And as said, when XXHighEnd is on the network drive.

But let's work this out, because it just should work (maybe not when the network is read only) and it is made for it.
But go on with Copy to XX Drive first. Maybe that tells us something.

Regards,
Peter


PS: If you can't get it done, switch on Logging (bottom of Settings) and post (as attachment) the newest XX log file after an attempt. Maybe I can see something in there (Quit XX, start XX, start Playback, grab log file in TemporaryData under your XX folder).

[charliemb]

Good morning Peter

Copy to XX Drive first did NOT work.

PS: If you can't get it done, switch on Logging (bottom of Settings) and post (as attachment) the newest XX log file after an attempt. Maybe I can see something in there (Quit XX, start XX, start Playback, grab log file in TemporaryData under your XX folder).

Attached are the two log files.

Otherwise, 6-1c solved the other problem.  And....

I can't believe what I'm hearing!!!!

Maybe I can elaborate more tomorrow, but this player is "in your face!"

There is a dramatic difference.  And this is not supposed to be with the W4S DAC2 (as with your Phasure NOS).  But there is.

 

[PeterSt]

Haha

There is a dramatic difference.  And this is not supposed to be with the W4S DAC2 (as with your Phasure NOS).  But there is.

Why not ? XXHighEnd was not created for the NOS1 ?
But very nice you are getting somewhere on the SQ department !
Now don't get tempted to use Minimize OS, because that's where it all really happens.
Oh ... I forgot - demo mode. Ok ok. Anyway, all you need to do to be secure is make that Restore Point. But read this : Minimized OS and Restore Points W7 and take care that you have a "persistent" Restore Point. So with that nothing can happen.

On your log files ... thanks, but these are not the ones (is not the one) I was looking for. They are named XX-20120507etc. and are in the TemporaryData sub folder under your XX folder (but switch on logging) and will contain a lot of data.


I just got a hunch on the network thing ...
I can imagine that the part which converts AIFF to WAV can't read from the Network Share (a Drive Letter should be OK). So, if you have a WAV laying around somewhere, put that on the network drive and try whether that goes.
(I am currently not at a location to try it myself).

Peter


PS: It *is* true that you don't have a drive letter assigned to that network drive, right ? If not indeed, I think you can always do that and it may (nah, should) solve the problem.

[charliemb]

On your log files ... thanks, but these are not the ones (is not the one) I was looking for. They are named XX-20120507etc. and are in the TemporaryData sub folder under your XX folder (but switch on logging) and will contain a lot of data.

Sorry, I forgot to turn on logging.   So when I went looking for that folder, it was not there, so I grabbed what looked like a log files.
Otherwise, I'll try the wav file tonight.

PS: It *is* true that you don't have a drive letter assigned to that network drive, right ? If not indeed, I think you can always do that and it may (nah, should) solve the problem.

Correct, I have no drive letter assigned yet.   Can try tonight.

BTW, can you confirm that I do this on the audio playback computer?  (i.e., go through the operation of creating a drive letter on the audio PC, not the network PC)

Now just a few comments on the sound _{as this is a bit off topic in this thead}.   You asked:

Why not ? XXHighEnd was not created for the NOS1 ?

Why?  Because I am using peak extend and arc prediction, which are intended for the NOS1 _{or so I understand}.

But here is the key point for all you W4S DAC2 users:  I set the Rolloff setting in the DAC2 to "Slow".   Normally, the DAC2 has a brick wall filter labelled "Fast."   But when I've tried "Slow" in the past, it had too much detail, too much air, and it simply was tiring to listen to.   In the past, it sounds better with the default "Fast" setting.

Now with XXHE, I tried "Slow" again because that is closer to a NOS1 (which has no filter at all).   With the "Slow" setting, I'm relying on peak extend and arc prediction to do that filtering, and apparently, that's what makes the big difference I'm now hearing.

What I'm hearing:

Instruments and vocals are more present or direct.  They are much closer to you and more distinct.  The analogy in photography, if I may, is like sharpening.  I almost want to say XXHE is cheating somehow.  Maybe peak extend and arc prediction can be seen like this, but NO, because if it were any kind of "sharpening" there would be more audible distortion,  but there is not.  In fact there is less.  It is also smoother at the same time, somehow.  At one point of listening last night, the tamborine player stepped out in front of the speakers and was only a few feet in front of me (the illustion of that).

The soundstage and image was clearer too.

The trade-off?   ..there always is one:  While everything got closer to me, so did the instruments in the far back of the soundstage.  What will seem like say 20feet back normally, now XXHE will render those instruments closer, like 10 feet back.  So while the soundstage and image is clearer and more forward, the depth has collapsed in my system.   (not sure I like that)

I also have a concern about whether or not such a direct sound will fatigue my ear (mine not yours).  With JRiver, I've gone 4 or 5 hours a day of listening for three weeks straight at 85db with peaks to 90db and NO ear fatigue. 

And finally for Peter or those technically inclinded:  The ESS ES9018 chip in the W4S DAC2 utilizes a frequency locked loop (FLL) based on it's own ultra low phase-noise oscillator.   That is, there is no phase locked loop (PLL) and therefore no attempt at phase lock to the input which in itself would create its own jitter.  Jitter on the input reaches a dead end: it has no influence on output jitter.  The frequency lock is based on crystals on both ends, and therefore has very little drift.  Drift would have an effect on audio because the FLL dividers would have to adjust.  But otherwise, once the dividers in the feedback loop are set and the FLL is locked, that's the end of the jitter story.  This is all in that patent I sent you in an eMail weeks ago, the ESS patent for the Sabre.

So who knows what accounts for the dramatic sound difference.   To quote someone's sig, can't remember who, "in theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is."

[charliemb]

Okay - Log files attached.

What did not work:
-Drive letter mapping of network read-only drive


What worked!:
-Wave files   ...yes, wave files pulled directly from read-only drive over the network worked.

[PeterSt]

Correct, I have no drive letter assigned yet.   Can try tonight.

BTW, can you confirm that I do this on the audio playback computer?

Correct.

What did not work:
-Drive letter mapping of network read-only drive

Do you mean assigning the drive letter or do you mean you did that but it didn't help ?

But also, you now are very persistent in that the network drive is read only (I thought that earlier you just wondered). So, it is read only;
Well, for starters this will cause "a sort of" problems in the end, because harmless analysis data is stored in the original locations of the album (n.b.: "Original Location" is the denotation for its opponent : meta data, which you will see in Galleries (once you made them)). I am not sure whether this causes the problem, and it doesn't seem so because the WAVs just play. In the end it will cause you not to be able to play with Normalized Volume, but you also can't make Galleries. There is no way around this I'm afraid.

That aside, the log file only tells me that indeed no output file is there (from AIFF), not why.
Can you do me a favor please, and check whether FLAC also doesn't work ? (as I said/implied earlier, it could be the AIFF conversion from a network share). So, I can't imagine that FLAC doesn't work (because I use that myself over a share regularly), and so *if* it doesn't work, it has to be the read only phenomenon (and I can't test that !).

Ahead of things the soft question : you are not allowing yourself writing to the drive ? (I can imagine good reasons of course !).

On the forward playback ... just take your time in exploring the further settings, and KNOW (please) that Vista is a bad part in your chain. You will be the most surprised once you have W7/SP1 running (64 bits please). And for fun you can try W7 without SP1 because at some stage you will be having that obviously. That is the *worse* ...


Okay, a few steps further again, and I may think about this read only drive, but supposed I can do something about it, no way that will be soon (it will be quite some work).
But let me know about FLAC please.

Thanks,
Peter

[charliemb]

Do you mean assigning the drive letter or do you mean you did that but it didn't help ?

It didn't help.

Specifically:

• The drive letter mapped okay.   
• Selecting the music folder from the mapped drive went okay, no error messages there, and was blue in color.
  
• What didn't work was the playback.  I got the usual error and a few more.   And the previouly-attached log files are coupled to this attempt (which was different from previous attempts in that this time I selected based on a mapped drive letter, not as in previous attempts where I specified a network folder ala \\...\...\... .

About the read-only, I'm still not 100% sure.  But I'm 92.5% sure, just because I normally set up all my network drives this way to avoid spreading viri over the network.  I also want the option to not run antivirus on the audio computer.

I will check FLAC tonight.   

I may also temporarily share as read-write.

[charliemb]

So, it is read only;
Well, for starters this will cause "a sort of" problems in the end, ... I am not sure whether this causes the problem, and it doesn't seem so because the WAVs just play. In the end it will cause you not to be able to play with Normalized Volume, but you also can't make Galleries.

Can you point me to a link on Galleries?

There is no way around this I'm afraid.

JRiver handles read-only network drives without a glitch, so I beg to disagree that there is no way around it. 
Just the opposite, since Windows defaults sharing to read-only (I believe), and since most people don't fiddle with those things, it behooves you to write around the read-only majority.

Can you do me a favor please, and check whether FLAC also doesn't work ?

Yes, I will.

*if* it doesn't work, it has to be the read only phenomenon (and I can't test that !).

Why not?  ..temporarily you can convert your share to read only, it only takes 30 seconds, and then you can change it back.

Ahead of things the soft question : you are not allowing yourself writing to the drive ? (I can imagine good reasons of course !).

Yes.  By now allowing myself write access, I am simultaneously not allowing viri and worms write access.

KNOW (please) that Vista is a bad part in your chain.

I will plan on eventually getting W7 per your advice.  Meanwhile, at least there are no gaps during playback with Vista.

I may think about this read only drive, but supposed I can do something about it, no way that will be soon (it will be quite some work).

I am confident that you will think of a simple fix soon.

[PeterSt]

Small thing for now :

JRiver handles read-only network drives without a glitch, so I beg to disagree that there is no way around it.

What has JR to do with this ?
I mean, as I told, XXHE writes small "analysis" files to the album folders which it needs herself later. Just a matter of design and avoiding a DBMS.

A search for Galleries Setup brings me this at a glance :

http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=898.0 (not the best for something offical-looking but it sure gives an idea).
http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=620.0
http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=1361.0

If you dive deeper there will be much more.
Peter

[charliemb]

But let me know about FLAC please.

FLAC works!!! over the read-only network.

I did check, access is read-only for certain.  So WAV works and FLAC works.  The only one that doesn't work is what I have for my entire 44.1/16 collection -> AIF.

You know what to do!!.  Please let me know when it is done.  :-)

[PeterSt]

Ok, thanks Charlie.
So undoubtedly I will be able to solve this for the sue 0.9z-7, but with read only forget about Galleries and Volume Normalization for now (or forever ).

Peter

[charliemb]

Okay, Thanks.  Looking forward to z-7.

I don't use Normalization and if navigation is fast enough over the network, then no Gallery function will be okay as I'd rather not mess with Galleries if I don't have to.

If navigation is too slow, then I will have to change what I do; with the ultimate thing to do will be to make a new machine OR hang a manually-updated  2TB eSATA off of the existing audio PC.  Either is painful compared to what I have: a 1TB RAID array with auto lazy backups to another 1TB on the network machine from which I directly and easily surf, shop, and download from HDTracks and other means. (and attempting all of that that from the audio playback machine will be very painful and so is highly depreciated in my particular situation.)

[charliemb]

Hi Peter

As you may have noticed, last night I purchased an activation key with "Undemo" to support this effort.

It turns out that I am purchasing a spinning disk and moving all my music for local hard drive playback. i.e., I will be moving away from network playback.

As such, I have no urgency for AIFF network playback.  AFAIK you may release z-7 without AIFF network playback.

However, my new urgency is for .dsf (DSD) playback by converting .dsf to PCM on the fly for a PCM DAC (almost all DACs in existance).  [i.e., not bit stuffing DSD into a fake PCM stream for a true DSD DAC]   JRiver 17 supports this* and I am married to JRiver until XXHE supports .dsf. 

I realize this won't be for z-7.  But otherwise, soon after?

*JRiver converts 1 bit 2.8MHz DSD to a lossless 64-bit / 384KHz PCM and then dithers down to 176.4/24 or 88.2/24 for PCM DAC playback.

[PeterSt]

Hey Charlie,

Thank you very much for your purchase. It is appreciated.
But of course I merely hope you can utilize it for its purpose. Anyway glad I was able to help out.
I didn't look into the AIFF thing yet, but to my estmation it will be a minor issue. But if not, I will take your "wishes" into account. Thanks.

The DSD playback is already in there half-way for a long time, but I thought other issues became more imporant at the time. Right after 0.9z-07 I will continue on it and hopefully present it soon.

Thanks again and regards,
Peter