Problem using XXHighEnd with Terratec Aueron 7.1 Space

[WeHa]

Hi there. I just got my brand new Terratec Aureon 7.1 Space. When i tried to run XXHighEnd with engine #3, i got this message :
"Device (currently) does not support / allow Exclusive Use. It will not be bit perfect!"

and then a window appears : "Device cannot be allocated because of not matching sample rate (?)"

but when i tried to use engine #2 it'll run normally.

can anyone help me about this?

thank you for the reply.

[PeterSt]

Did you tick the two checkboxes as shown ?

If yes, did you get the latest (signed) drivers for Vista ?
Does your device show (left screen below) as your sound device properly (opposed to "loudspeakers") ?

Lastly, did you make your device the Primary Device (as per green tick in the left screen below) ?

Peter

[WeHa]

thanks for the reply Peter.

i think i've done the right setting. but still it doesn't work.

here's the screenshot of my sound properties :

thanks for the reply.

[PeterSt]

Ah, so you're using Analogue Out ...

I don't think I have ever seen that working ...
I must honestly say I never dove into it, but it looks like that using Analgue Out of a soundcard just will not allow Exclusive Mode.
If you'd have a DAC to put behind it ... (spdif)

The next problem you (we all) have, is that the combobox (where yours shows 24/192000) does not allow for 16/44100 (or does it ?). I mean, what would be output from the program is 16/44100 (or 16/88200 at Double/Uprate), and since Vista *ALWAYS* resamples to the selection in that combobox, the program tells you that the samplerate is not supported ... (because it isn't). Note : "always" is except for Exclusive Mode.

All would leave you with Engine#1 or #2, and the only thing you'd get from that is ... resampling. Not worth a thing ... bad sound.

[WeHa]

thanks for the reply Peter. it's really wierd happened to my Aueron, because yesterday i just tried with my SBLive! 24 bit set @ 24 bit, 96KHz playback and it worked like a charm with engine #3.

so i wonder why this happens to my Aureon while my SBLive! 24 bit worked like a charm.

[astacus21]

it works, but not exactly in exclusive mode, cause you can change the volume from the tray slider.
Sb live resamples internaly form 44.1 khz to 48 khz and this affects the output quality.

[WeHa]

Thank you for the reply. so is there any chance to make this Aureon works in Exclusive mode? maybe some tweaks?

thanks.

[WeHa]

hi there, still i can't make it works. wonder what i should do. thanks.

[PeterSt]

Difficult ...

http://supporten.terratec.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=viewdownload&cid=56&menu=53820

Apart from hardly anything working (at this moment ?) on that site, it looks like there are no official Vista drivers.
The status with the beta drivers as far as I can see did not change since March (07).

Apart from that this most probably will prevent you from using Exclusive Mode (but try the beta if you ever can get it to download !), you MUST select 44100/16 in the combobox. Without that, you'll get the second message (sample rate doesn't match).
Note that this combobox is for Shared Mode only. In Exclusive Mode it's not effective.

I found no proof that the Space 7.1 resamples.


Can't you bring it back ? 

[WeHa]

I think i'm giving up to make this works. I've tried everything possible, but still I got nothing to make it works.

thanks everybody for the help.

[PeterSt]

Did you try those beta drivers ?

[WeHa]

Did you try those beta drivers ?

Hi Peter, yap right now i'm using those drivers, but still i can't make XXHighEnd to work.

may be you have some thoughts to make it work?

thanks.

[WeHa]

until the release of 0.9p i still can't make it work.

i want it to work so bad.

here are the screenshots :

then when pressed enter :

Peter, i hope you can make XXHighEnd work in my setup.

thanks.

[PeterSt]

Get yourself a nice weekend by returning that soundcard ...

I am very sorry, but if I'd know what to do I would have told it. Actually, at getting the WMP rips to work (Version N and source problems) I broke down the device allocation as far as I could (this stops when "kernel" programs are called, which are out of reach) and something like this cannot be tweaked. Ok, not with my current knowledge. I thought about you as well, but it just can't be done.


Your last post shows that your card does not allow exclusive mode for the driver you chose (probably analogue-out (Loudspeakers)), and *then* you run into the problem that Vista always resamples (it even will do that from 44K1 to 44K1 ) but Vista settings do not allow ... err ...  44K1 in your case ?

At writing this, I now realize that something else must be going on as well ...
(keep in mind, the real culprit is the Exclusive Mode not being allowed)

If you are sure that you're feeding XXHighEnd with 44K1 material, something in your system does not allow 44K1.
BUT ALSO SET THE OUTPUT TO 44k1 (in this post) you actually showed a WRONG setting, while I in the post after that pointed out that you should choose 44K1 in there. Did you ? can you ?
If you can't set things like I showed here, and if not indeed where you most probably can choose 48K only, your card will be resampling to 48K, and ... and now I don't know.

Something else is wrong, because it should be possible anyway to let Vista resample. Example : if *I* resample to 88K2 (Engine#2), Vista will make 96 of it. I think the kernel programs somewhere must be in error *OR* the reason why it is not working is not clear. Look at the last screenshot you showed : "Device cannot be allocated because of nor matching sample rate (?)" ... note the question mark, which shows that at that point I myself cannot determine the real reason for rejection, while actually I "ask" for a sample rate to be fed.

Background : When in Shared Mode this is about, say, KMixer which will indeed mixes several samplerates to one common denominator, and whether this is needed in your case or not, it tells me (the program) it can't.

I have a Vista laptop which shows similar behaviour, BUT, that does not allow 44K1 as a choice. It still should work as per explanation above, but it does not. Exact same messages.

Please answer the question whether you can choose 44K1 in that screen I showed.

I could use the laptop to tear down the problem ...



PS: Sorry for being a bit fuzzy, but this kind of brainstorming helps me to set things better in my mind.

[WeHa]

Thank you for the reply and the explanation, Peter.

I've tried to do what you showed me to do in my setup.

here is the screenshot :

but still it doesn't work

i don't know what is the problem. but when i tried to use Foobar + ASIO, the AureonSpace control panel, shows and changes automatically to 44.1 KHz and it runs with no problem. here is the screenshot :

so i think my Aureon Space is capable of running in 44.1KHz. but i wonder why it won't work with XX.

once again thanks for the reply.

[PeterSt]

You chose 24 bit. Should be 16 ...

[WeHa]

unfortunately there is no 16bit option i could choose. all the options are in 24 bit mode. so is there anything i can do to make it 16bit capable?

thanks.

[PeterSt]

No idea really. But it would hardly be true that 16 bits is not "allowed" by your card.
What about things like unchecking "IP Voice" ?
Or any other means of which you can expect to actually "downgrade" the card ... ?

[WeHa]

i've done both checking and unchecking the "IP Voice" option, but still doesn't change anything.

i feel completely hopeless to make this work

thanks Peter.

[PeterSt]

Bad luck so far. The laptop now just plays (at 48K/16). So now I can't try to tweak it ... 

But before it did not (Engine#3 of course) so I'm not sure what changed ...

[PeterSt]

Ok, I am as far now that I have your behaviour again;

Could you try to login to your PC as Guest and try again ?
I did not look for the differences yet, but logged in as guest (hence no admin rights whatsoever) it works, and with those rights (but not uplevelled) it does not.
Also though, with guest I have less devices (only loudspeakers, which btw I try to use, like you; with admin rights I also have SPDIF).

At first glance ... strange.

[WeHa]

i've tried to log in as guest, but still it doesn't change anything. there's only 24 bit option. and when i tried to run XXHighEnd, an error message appeared. it showed something about Microsoft Visual Basic.

[PeterSt]

I am very sorry, but it can't be done (and the Guest thing appeared to be a mistake; it ran Engine#1 (but told 3).

Again I tore down everything in the software - but now for this situation (in my case the samplerate (your case would be the bitrate)), and again I bumped into this one "kernel" call where things go wrong.

On the other hand, you *must* be able to play 16bits. Note that you'd be feeding something into the stream (some DSP thing ?) when it outputs in 24bits only (or inputs ??).
Also note that when you'd manage, you will still be dealing with the Exclusive Mode thing (unless the same culprit causes that too).
Although there will be a difference in playback from Engine#3 opposed to the others, when all is subject to resampling (which it would in shared mode !), all is lost already, and you'd be "as worse" with Engine#1/#2.

I give up ...

[andy74]

Hi,

Try reflash it to Prodigy 7.1 and use its drivers instead.
I personally tried it for XP, and the drivers and control panel a lot better for Prodigy 7.1.

I have a Esi Juli@. First I tried it with analog out as you did with space.
Then I realized that it is not exclusive anв not bitperfect, because it reponds master volume.
Then I chose Spdif out in the vista audio panel as default device.
I got no sound first but I noticed that in ESI panel I see that the SPDIF volume does not respond to master volume in vista.
I then just clicked on monitor button in ESI panel so that I can monitor what's going on the SPDIF through analog outs.

And viola, I have an exclusive mode for ESI SPDIF default device and monitor it via analog outs.
Changing master volume in Vista does not affect the volume in analogs out. And of course SQ is much better now.

I took a look at the Space panel at my XP PC and did not find a way to monitor SPDIF through analogs.
So I think you should google for Prodigy to see if its drivers allow you this. And if yes just convert Space to Prodigy (I did it myself couple of times).

Good luck
Andrey

[WeHa]

Thanks for the reply Andrey.

How I reflash my Aureon Space to Audiotrak Prodigy? Is it just installing the prodigy driver? or maybe you can help me with step-by-step-how-to-do-it?

thanks.

[andy74]

I checked on the net for prodigy driver and on the screen shot did not find how to monitor digital out through analogs. So reflashing may not help. It is up to you.

Here links to prodigy drivers
Korean site : the first link
http://www.audiotrak.co.kr/kr/customer/Dprodigy71.php

Another link
http://www.esiforum.com/show.asp?db=at&t=at1&mode=0&msg=2359

I would first read about prodigy drivers for Vista before trying to reflash.

I've sent you a PM too.

[Telstar]

then when pressed enter :

I installed the latest version of XX on a test machine (since my HTPC is not ready), where the soundcard is an old Terratec DMX6 fire (which has a much better SQ than any newer TT cards) and I had the exact same errors as the above poster.

I'm trying to put the latest (beta) drivers for vista and the control panel but they seems buggy. I would like to evaluate XX on this computer that I currently use for music listening while working in my studio.

[Telstar]

I'm trying to put the latest (beta) drivers for vista and the control panel but they seems buggy. I would like to evaluate XX on this computer that I currently use for music listening while working in my studio.

I managed to have the 5.51 drivers working (i didnt install the control panel), but they are far from optimal. With rca (line out) output to my active monitors I dont have exclusive mode and it seems that by default it upsample to 48khz.

It is very difficult to hear differences from WMP or foobar this way.

[WeHa]

right now i'm downloading the via envy24 ht driver from viaarena which is built originally by via. because someone told me that the driver allow the device to operate in 16 bit mode.

[WeHa]

OMG this driver couldn't detect VIA Envy24HT based sound cards. From what i saw on the website, it only supports Envy24HT-S which means the soundcards must use VIA DAC (less quality) ones. i'm using 0.9s-1 with engine #1 even i'm impress with the SQ. but still waiting and hoping Peter could solve my problem for using engine #3

[GerardA]

Hi Peter,

I thought I had the same problem with my Terratec phase 24FW external soundcard connected to an acer 5920g laptop.
Engine 3 on Vista gave the same two messages.
But since yesterday (9t5) I don't get the message about the samplerate anymore and it is now possible to use engine 3,
although not in exclusive mode.
Did you change the program or did I do something more or less by accident?

BTW. This is a Firewire-box and it is not possible for a program to change the samplerate. This is done in the Terratec-controlpanel.
In the vista soundproperties it says 44khz/24bits and exclusive mode allowed.
It is not in exclusive mode though.

When I was writing this message vista shut down for an automatic update and after that xx does not startup anymore.
Let me try to solve this first. Any Idea? (OK already solved, it stayed in the tray and could only be maximized)

[PeterSt]

Actually, yes, I changed something ! When I read this at first (yesterday) I wasn't aware of it, but today reading this again it sprung to my mind that I have been working on support for 24 bits. So, what I did was actually adjusting the program with some debug "enhancements" and found quite another problem so I quit that project for a while, but forgot to remove that debug code. Actually this is interesting ...

What I found that, in fact, 24 bits is already supported. Mind you, for selecting the device, and NOT for putting through 24 bits per sample (per channel). Now, for you -and judging- a bit background on this :

In the process of getting the first steps of 24 bit to work I recognized that there would be no real reason that 24 bits would be hold back for Engine#1. So, that should just work. However -and this is as hard to understand as it is to explain- there is no way it can be checked whether this really works. Keep in mind : Engine#1. Why ? well, because Vista will ALWAYS resample to the rate you set in the Advanced Properties of the audio interface; set it to 44100/24 and it will do just that (even when 96/24 material is fed), and set it to 96000/24 it will do just that again (even when 44100/16 is fed). Please read the before carefully.

From the above follows, that if Engine#1 would not support 96/24, and knowing that if you do not set the properties to 96/24 it would not output 96/24 anyway, it works the other way around just the same : feed with 44100, but since you set the properties to 96000 it would output that.
No way to check the reality of it, unless you could hear it by the better quality, which is a problem by itself when you don't have the reference yet, like me.

Engine#1 will not play Exclusive, and it will not play bit perfect.

Where above leads to nothing, and thus not having a reference to check either, there is one solution only : use Engine#3. Now here I have another problem, which may be a problem of my setup; dunno yet, but for others it might be something to check and report back to me :

My audio card supports 96/24 (and 192/24);
When -outside of any player- I use the testbutton (see screen copy below) I receive the message that the audio device is in use. Mind you, it is not.

Sidenote : With Engine#3 -whatever is set in those properties- does nothing, except for the neccessary ticking of the two checkboxes (see screen copy again).

I can be fairly sure though, that when the test tone (at clicking that test button) does not sound, Engine#3 will not be able to attach to the audio device similarly. Don't get confused now : ... which says nothing much about Engine#1 being able to connect to the same samplerate / bit depth, because then it goes through the mixer. On the other hand, when Engine#1 plays through the setting (like 96/24) you can be sure that the audio device is capable, like mind officially is.

Now comes the strange part, 95% leading to a bug in Vista :
My test tone gives an error at 96/24, unjustified;
When I now ge back to first 44100/16 try the test tone (ok !), then to 44100/24 (ok !), *then* go to 96/24, the test tone does work.

This doesn't help for Engine#3 then working. However, I can imagine that if I go the same route in the software at assigning the device (first 44100 etc.) then maybe it works too.
It is here where I quit that little project because I'd say I'm too much depending on my own setup, and it might not be a Vista bug but a driver problem in my audio card. IOW, if it helps me, it wouldn't help you.

In all means do note : currently Engine#3 cannot perform 24 bit playback, because the bits just aren't provided by me. So there's no need to try whatever with Engine#3. What you could try though -and helping us with it- is trying the test tone procedure as described, and tell me whether it's different with you, or maybe the same.
If it's the same I could try to setup the same route in software, *then* add the 24 bit support, and then we might have it working.

So all 'n all, and maybe off topic, when I started working on 24 bit support, it seems that a Vista bug just does not allow 24 bit in Exclusive Mode. If that's true we're stuck. Together with that, I fully DIStrust Engine#1 really working in 96/24, no matter you feed 96/24 and no matter the output is 96/24. If you ask me, it (Vista) first samples back to 44100.

[GerardA]

That's good to hear. Then there may be some logic to what is happening.
What I found out too was that at first (eng#3) the laptopvolumecontrol did not react, only the terratecvolume worked. After checking a half hour later the laptop/windows volume worked again.
So maybe there was something a little bit exclusive happening.(With Terratec asio drivers I get this behavior too, so maybe this is a Terratec feature?)
I'll try to do later today what you suggest.
What worked too is that if I set eng#3 to upsample I get the message about the samplerate, if I put the terratec to 88 khz I don't get the message. If I turn off the upsampling the message is back.
So there must be some communication, I dont know if I really get what I expect 44, 88 or 96 though.

About the upsampling I wondered why you put double and upsampling seperately, isn't always the combination preferable?
And maybe it is possible then to make the samplerate (and bitdepth) user-selectable?

Although it is not exclusively working all the controls work so I can test the differences, that is a big step forward!
Also it looks like the program is more stable now.

[PeterSt]

And maybe it is possible then to make the samplerate (and bitdepth) user-selectable?

Of course you are right. But please keep in mind, so far "officially" no other source (!) than 44100/16 is supported; that Engine#1 accepts more is not by explicit design. IOW, when 96 (88.2) is officially supported as source, those options will be there (I'm not sure what the conditions will be, but I think an example would be downrezzing to 44.1/16 when the source is e.g. 88.2/16 or /24 because your soundcard can't handle more).

About the upsampling I wondered why you put double and upsampling seperately, isn't always the combination preferable?

Although I can imagine the logic you see, no. Double -as how I applied it- eliminates jitter, and Upsampling theoretically adds it again (read : does not eliminate it), but adds perceived resolution.
Although I never try it anymore, in the beginning of Engine#3's life it was very clear that Doubling was by far the most dynamiccally of them all. It was even too much. If all is right, you should be able to perceive that with Unattended Playback, Q1 = 14, No Invert and no Core Appointment. The only difference with the early days of Engine#3 would be the Priority Settings, which cannot be related to any of todays settings.

Awaitening your results !
Peter

[GerardA]

OK there is some consistency!
When I (re)start the laptop the samplerate is set to the one I used before I shut down.
This was 88 and I could go to the advanced settings and push the testbutton-> NO SOUND.
Then I changed the samplerate in the Terrateccontrolpanel (In windows not possible) to 96
and then there was no advanced settings but in the rightmouse-menu I could test and get a sound!
The same for 44. Then back to 88, in the advanced settings it was now possible to get a sound.
So only for 88 I get the advanced settings and can set exclusive mode on, but this is not working (24bit?).
When I change in TT-control to 44 and restart the laptop I get the advanced settingstab only for 44.
Now I have to change again before I get a testsound.

Well I hope this will give you the information to make your program perfect!
As I understand you correctly the exclusive mode will work if you output 24 bits?

As my suggestion before maybe the possibility for samplerate/bitdepth could first be implemented only for the output. I hope it is easy for you to add some bits and multiply the samplerate?

Some screenshots:

[PeterSt]

As I understand you correctly the exclusive mode will work if you output 24 bits?

Maybe ...

So only for 88 I get the advanced settings and can set exclusive mode on, but this is not working (24bit?).

It depends a bit (hehe) on what you mean by this;
What does it mean in your situation "can set exclusive mode on" ?
Also, what message(s) do you get exactly when you "now" (??) try XX and Engine#3 ? (remember, it can't work with 24 bits, but the (sequence of) message(s) is important ...
Do note that I think you have to try with 24 bit material, because only then Engine#3 will try to make a legal connection to your soundcard which can only do 24 bits (or ?).


PS: Your first screenshot won't come through ... (it might be important for me).

[GerardA]

For exclusive mode i can set the properties on (set the checkbox to 'x'), but I when I start XX I get the message 'Device currently does not suport/allow exclusive use. It will not be bitperfect' I push OK and the music starts to play. Of course only when I set the Terratec to 44k. When I set XX to 'double' I get the message about 'Device can not be allocated because of not matching sample rate'.
When I set the device to 88k it gives the first message again and happily starts to play.
Since I can not set the bitdepth in the Terratec I think it accepts everything you put in it. When I use engine #1 and #2 there is no problem with bitdepth and samplerate.
(The screenshot with number 1 was just a test for the printscreenprogram)
I'll try to find something in 24 bits, would be fun if that works!

[PeterSt]

Ok, thanks very much !

I'll try to find something in 24 bits, would be fun if that works!

No way, not yet, not with Engine#3 !

[GerardA]

Haha,
24/192 plays. I can even recognize what song is playing!
It sounds like a cat in the dishwasher...

[PeterSt]

So now you need some more bits, right ?
That won't be in the upcoming version (I hope today), but the next.

[GerardA]

That's quick!

Do note that I think you have to try with 24 bit material, because only then Engine#3 will try to make a legal connection to your soundcard which can only do 24 bits (or ?).

I don't know how but the soundcard plays 16 bits too. You're the expert here! Does the souncard make 24 out of 16 or is vista doing this or??

[PeterSt]

The sequence is Vista -> Soundcard.

So if the soundcard tells it's outputting in 16 bits it can do it.
If the software outputs 24 bits, it might be Vista making 16 of it, but the soundcard may do that just the same.

I don't know more about the Terratec than this thread tells about it.

[WeHa]

has the latest XXHighEnd solved the problem? thanks.

[GerardA]

Well, for me it has!

[WeHa]

i've tried it. the error message has gone, but there is no sound there. what DAC setting should i use? thanks for the help.

[PeterSt]

Hi again !

Can you post the output of "DAC Test" (at the bottom of the "DAC is" dropdown in the Settings Area) ?