Tube rolling for my MC 2301

[praphan]

Hello everyone,

This is for the tube guys. As you can see in my sig, I am tube addicted. I have happily been running MC 2301 monoblocks each powered by 8x KT88 for two years. Never monitored the run time by any sort of timer but guess those stock Svetlana Winged-C KT88 tubes have logged almost 1,000 hours.

While waiting for the Nobel version of XXHE, I think I would better prepare my amps for a new quantum leap. I have already got my new Mullard 12AT7s to replace those 4 stock driver tubes. Now the hard part is to choose the best fit for power tubes. After leveraging google, it boils down to two options ie. (a) Genelux Gold Lion KT88 reissue produced by Russian, New Sensor Corp or (b) chinese made Shuguang KT88-Z treasure premium. (b) the black tube is 65% more expensive.

Any thought and recommendation are appreciated.
Thanks a lot
Praphan

[Eric]

Dear Praphan,

usually it takes quite some time to get used to a change in your system. In addition, you might discover that some other tweaks are beneficial(cables, cones etc.). Or rather removing existing tweaks.
So my recommendation would be to wait for XXHE Noble and first get used to that, before implementing other changes. This strategy would give you the opportunity to experience the effect of XXHE Noble. 

Cheers
Eric

[PeterSt]

I sadly have nothing useful to contribute.
But I wanted to say I like "XXHE Noble". Still smiling ...

[s_chris]

Hi Praphan,

the psvane version of shuguang kt88 sounds  good.
I tested several version of 211, 845. All sound good, sometimes better than nos tubes.
my experince is that they have shorter lifetime than nos or other shuguang tubes, but sound is really good.
regards chris

[CoenP]

Hi,

I would check out the rap on the Electro Harmonix KT90 and Chinese or Russian KT120.

Seems to be a wonderfull sounding direct replacements for the KT88/6550.

regards, Coen

[listening]

Hi praphan,

I don't play in this league    but are using a small amp with switching power supply. Tried a lot of tube rolling but found out that the most critical part seems to be the quality of the power supply. The differences were small when using my amp, which is modded heavily in the signal path. Using the same tubes in amps with conventional tube power supply guides to big sonic differences between the tubes. Maybe there is a replacement for the classic Macintosh power supply?

Regards,
Georg

[arvind]

I have been using the CAT JL3 tube amps for many years. Initially they were supplied with 16 X 6550 Svetlana tubes. Over a year back CAT decided to change to Tungsol KT 120 tubes. I have been using them since. Sonically there is no difference but i am expecting longer life, only time will tell.

Arvind

[praphan]

I sadly have nothing useful to contribute.
But I wanted to say I like "XXHE Noble". Still smiling ...

Hi Peter,

I am sure all of us here will be happy with Nobel XXHE. Still waiting ...  waiting and waiting........

 

thanks,
Praphan

[praphan]

Hi,

I would check out the rap on the Electro Harmonix KT90 and Chinese or Russian KT120.

Seems to be a wonderfull sounding direct replacements for the KT88/6550.

regards, Coen

Hello Coen,

Thanks for your advice.

However, folk on AA forum (Audio Aficionado) once wrote to Mc guy about KT90/ KT120. Below was the story:

Jeff,

I checked with Ron Cornelius (McIntosh) awhile ago regarding these so-called drop in replacements for the KT88/6550 in a McIntosh amp & here is his email reply:

"We do not make an amp designed for this 120 tube, so no. With the heater current it draws I can guarantee it will damage our amps. It is NOT of the 6550- KT88 design although it may work fine in an amp designed for it."

Thanks again,
Ron Cornelius


Heed the warning (for McIntosh amps anyway).

[praphan]

Hi Praphan,

the psvane version of shuguang kt88 sounds  good.
I tested several version of 211, 845. All sound good, sometimes better than nos tubes.
my experince is that they have shorter lifetime than nos or other shuguang tubes, but sound is really good.
regards chris

Hi Chris,

I am also looking at Psvane too.

Sounds like Grant Fidelity broke up with Shuguang and then was instrumental to forming a venture capital to take over another Chinese tube factory and develop the Psvane line. I suspect that the materials and know how on tube production are very similar to that of Shuguang since they have Shuguang's ex-R&D team. But I am not quite sure on the workmanship compared to Shuguang whose workers are working there for 10-20 years.

Psvane is trying to position their products in the top-end market with premium pricing. A matched quad of KT88 T series is US 500. I need 4 quad. Way too expensive for rolling without sufficient positive testimonials.

Thanks and regards,
Praphan

[praphan]

Hi praphan,

 Maybe there is a replacement for the classic Macintosh power supply?

Regards,
Georg

Georg hi,

Umhhh .... interesting. But Mc offers 3 year warranty. Mine are just 2 years. I would not touch their hardware which will effectively void the warranty.

Thanks and regards
Praphan

[praphan]

Dear Praphan,

usually it takes quite some time to get used to a change in your system. In addition, you might discover that some other tweaks are beneficial(cables, cones etc.). Or rather removing existing tweaks.
So my recommendation would be to wait for XXHE Noble and first get used to that, before implementing other changes. This strategy would give you the opportunity to experience the effect of XXHE Noble. 

Cheers
Eric

Eric hi,

I fully agree with you that sonic shift as a result of tube change can be subjective. I should stay put with my existing tubes until my ears are well adjusted to the Nobel XXHE. Then I can be in a better position to decide on tube change.

However, I will definitely roll new power tubes and later report my findings here again.

Thanks,
Praphan

[Eric]

Notice the difference:
Nobel   vs.   Noble

It might have escaped your attention

Cheers
Eric

[praphan]

Eric hi,

Who knows ? One day we will withness Peter heading to Oslo for a prize !

Cheers!
Praphan

[PeterSt]

Nobel or Noble (the latter shows some more decency for a self-election of a Nobel Prize) - when you engage 0.9z-7 for the first time, at least one of your tubes will blow anyway.

Haha.
But I hope that doesn't happen.

[Scroobius]

It could be Nobel or Noble or even Nobble but I hope not the latter 

P

[juanpmar]

Hey Praphan,

Although I don´t use tubes anymore I have some experience with the KT88. I used them in my previous Supratek Mondeuse amps http://www.supratek.biz/mondeuse.php

I tried several KT88 like the Electro Harmonix, which came as standard with the amps, this tube was the more dynamic of all but also was a little brilliant for my taste. I tried also the GE 6550 (General Electric) (NOS), they make a clean sound but with less body than the other tubes. At the end I got the KT88 Gold Lion replica.They sounded really well, better than the other ones and have an acceptable price. The Gold Lion were smoother and easy to listen. Whatever the tube you choose try them with different kinds of the other tubes in your amp to get the final sound that better suits your taste.

Best regards,
Juan

[praphan]

Juan hi,

Thank you for your insight on Genalex Gold Lion reissue. Sweet and warm is what I am looking for. May be I will try Gold Lion to see how they go first. Someone on AA forum said Shuguang black treasure is a ripoff , some kind of marketing scam.

I google Supratek. They are hand made with good review. Just for curiosity, why do you switch to SS ? I have McIntosh SS too but tube gears give me more musical involvement.

Best regards,
Praphan

[juanpmar]

Juan hi,... Just for curiosity, why do you switch to SS ? I have McIntosh SS too but tube gears give me more musical involvement.

Best regards,
Praphan

Hi Praphan,

I´ve been using tubes for more than 20 years, time enough to realize that rolling tubes is expensive and that you never get satisfied, why? because you are always thinking on other tubes to improve/change the sound. That´s the reason I took the route of SS, of course it isn´t perfect either but at least it is cheaper and there is less parts in the system to change/combine. With the amount of parameters we use now with XXHighEnd to think also on adding combinations with different tubes made me lazy to say the least. Of course if you are a quiet man you can stay with the same tubes all the time but I´m not that kind of guy, I like to play a bit once in a while changing one thing here or there. Once I began with the computer music (XXHighEnd), I realized that I have enough parameters to play with to kill the audiophile anxiety. Some of those parameters make similar effects as changing tubes, but again, a lot cheaper. So, I can play enough with XXHighEnd to get me entertained and, what´s most important, to improve the sound with those changes, something that evidently is possible.

After many different kinds of amplifiers over the years, tubes and ss, I ended up with the Spectron mono blocks. They are digital amps, I know that many people are sceptic with this kind of amplification, what I can say is that they make me very happy, they are smooth, dynamic and produce a very dimensional and clean sound, in my humble opinion they are fantastic amplifiers and the most true to the music amps I ever had.

Of course I had great times with tubes and I´m sure you too...Enjoy it!

Best regards,
Juan