Playback drive drive

[PeterSt]

With the Device Buffer Size at e.g. 50ms the crack at the start is much less pronounced.

I don't think any "50ms" of Device Buffer Size exists. Unless you calculated it regarding the set sample rate etc. But it tells me nothing …
But whatever it tells you, try to eliminate it from there and then let me know what you mean. It could be helpful. Haha.

Net Buffer Size : DevBufSize x Q1 X Q1Factor.
This was the last time ! 

Regards,
Peter

[juanpmar]

With the Device Buffer Size at e.g. 50ms the crack at the start is much less pronounced.

I don't think any "50ms" of Device Buffer Size exists.

Sorry, I wanted to say SFS: 50ms

Btw, I deactivated the Playback Drive cache and the cracks are still there, much longer time also to write the playlist.

I´ll try other combinations of Q1 x Q1 Factor e.g. 7 x 2

Regards, Juan

[PeterSt]

I´ll try other combinations of Q1 x Q1 Factor e.g. 7 x 2

That really will be the same as 1x14.

Sorry, I wanted to say SFS: 50ms

Just "50". Or otherwise 50MB, but in the end this is not correct. So, 50.

Alll right. What about playing plain WAVs ? Does that matter ?

And what about the same situation but now without Playback Drive ? (never mind the other ticks now; so it is *only* about what we started to call a "crack" (and I think it is compared to ticks or plops).

Thanks,
Peter

[juanpmar]

I´ll try other combinations of Q1 x Q1 Factor e.g. 7 x 2

Alll right. What about playing plain WAVs ? Does that matter ?

And what about the same situation but now without Playback Drive ? (never mind the other ticks now; so it is *only* about what we started to call a "crack" (and I think it is compared to ticks or plops).

Thanks,
Peter

I use WAV files most of the time, makes no difference on regards to the crack (ticks or plops or whatever we want to call that noise)

I saw in the Device Manager that I need the Realtek driver for some "unknown" device. I updated the drivers and it seems that now the crack is less pronounced, in fact a couple of times there wasn´t any crack at all at the start of the first track.

And what about the same situation but now without Playback Drive ? (never mind the other ticks now; so it is *only* about what we started to call a "crack" (and I think it is compared to ticks or plops).

Well, I was playing all the time without Playback Drive and had that problems with the cracks but also the music stopped after 4 or 5 minutes. With the Playback Drive I can avoid the stops but not the cracks.

It has been tiring, for you and for the other people who are reading this, sorry. I´m going to try other settings and if I can´t solve it or find that the sound is not good I´ll be back to see if we can find a solution.

Regards, Juan

[PeterSt]

If you didn't do that already, what about updating all the MoBo drivers ?

(ticks or plops or whatever we want to call that noise)

Don't do that. That is, not if you want me to help you (and others). A tick is a tick, a plop is a plop and a crack is a crack. And since we are focusing on what happens at the start of a track *IF* it is the same what I can incur for (but not on my own audio PC) it should be a fast repeating exhibit of what I otherwise call a plop (which is a one-time happening in the lower regions). A plop becomes a crack because of the fairly high frequency of that otherwise one plop and with a duration of maybe 0.3 seconds.

If you can't recognize this as a crack like I just described, it is no crack and also not the same as what I am talking about. And mind you, maybe it isn't because what I talk about happens after maybe 10 seconds into the track. So say it happens at the start of the track (as a first thing to hear).
Focus on the phenomenon in order and don't mix up with other things.

And Juan, we have the same software and the same DAC. Your efforts on the hdd's seem sufficient to me by now, or IOW that's not it. That's why I now refer to the MoBo drivers as a "logical" further possible cause.

There's one other thing which may help you thinking it out :
When the stream stalls, playback will stop. You recognize that from playing without the Playback drive. When you hear plops or ticks but music continues, it is something which is more deep down, and towards the program the stream just plays. This (neither) is NOT what you experience with the Playback Drive. So, all good. Now, I would say that when this (plop ?) happens at the start or stop, something gets lost in the (first) buffer. And in the last too. So, there the stream is interrupted the same way (virtually) but I can't detect it because it is the start and stop. This could also mean that reinstalling the Phasure driver can help. BUT if you reinstalled MoBo drivers, always reinstall the Phasure driver after that again.

And not to forget : don't mind the ticks at volume change, because that is my bad.

Ok ?
And take it easy !
Peter

[juanpmar]

Thanks Peter,

I haven´t updated the mb drivers yet. In fact I've never done the update because of the potential hazards and the possibility of damaging the mb. If someone knows how to do it without danger please let me know.
On the other hand, I don´t even remember now how to install the Phasure drivers, I´m getting old (that´s a fact)...ok, if I have to do it I´ll do it, but first I have to investigate about the mb drivers, as I say any help on this regard is welcome.
My mb is an Asus X58 Sabertooth. http://www.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1366/SABERTOOTH_X58/#overview


Ok, now let me summarize about the cracks, ticks and plops. 

With Playback Drive:

- Crack at start of the sound, a few seconds after I hit play. Only one time, I mean when the first track starts not in the following tracks.

- Ticks at the moment I change up or down the volume. (Ok, no worries about it).

- No more plops at the end

- No stalls (stops). The music flows until the end of the Play lists.

- No other ticks in any place while music is playing.


Without Playback Drive:

Exactly the same as with the Playback Drive but also the music stalls (stops). Sometimes a few seconds after the start, sometimes after a few minutes (4 minutes or so).


I´d like to add something about the SQ now that I´m changing between Playback Driver and playing directly from the Music drive. Sometimes I have the feeling that the sound is better without Playback Drive. Also, at low volume level the sound seems to be more subtle and detailed.
Well, once in a while I need to enjoy the sound, not all is about cracks, ticks and plops. 

Best regards,
Juan

[PeterSt]

N.b.:

Sometimes I have the feeling that the sound is better without Playback Drive.

Nothing tells that this should or should not be the case. But when time permits, try another hdd or medium. It should be about consistency - preferably with the better SQ.


Okayyy. So you managed to have it the same as I have (remember, I never tried without Playback Drive). That is, when you now suddenly "admit" that the crack is a few seconds into the first track. GOOD. Thus now you are in the stage where I am myself, and all it now needs is finding the cause of that crack. I think I can do that, but first I must setup a PC where it happens again. So give me a couple of weeks for that please.

And Juan, do you have a clue how you got rid of the plops at stopping ? it may be valuable to others (and to me, because apparently I am doing something unconsciously that I never have the problem (at stop)).

I´m getting old (that´s a fact)...ok, if I have to do it I´ll do it, but first I have to investigate about the mb drivers, as I say any help on this regard is welcome.

Hopefully we all will be old. But maybe I noticed a little desperation in your voice or otherwise some loss of self-confidence. Don't. But don't be obsessed and don't want things "right away". Ok ?
I don't have an advice about your MoBo's drivers, and I would be reluctant about it as you are. Just take care that you make an image (copy) of the current firmware/BIOS and find (Google) some nice outlay on how to do it. And keep in mind : it may not help. So again, if you can live with the cracks for a while, I think I will find what causes it, at least on my side. And please notice : these cracks could be something I would NOT like to live with, because they are fairly loud and always come unexpected.

One other thing for a solution :
I am 100% sure I can solve it in the software, if it is only a thing that happens within X seconds from the start of playback and is caused by something internal. Like I said, these *are* stalls in the stream (many in a row) but I (the software) can't see that. So possibly within 10 days or so I have the solution in software ?
Notice that I already thought about this earlier, thinking that if a PC here can incur for it, with others it can happen too (and I really couldn't see how to solve it by means off settings).

So far for now !
Peter

[juanpmar]

Thus now you are in the stage where I am myself, and all it now needs is finding the cause of that crack. I think I can do that, but first I must setup a PC where it happens again. So give me a couple of weeks for that please.

Sure!, I´ll wait the time you need to solve it, I rather to wait than to start installing mb drivers without knowing if that is going to fix it up. Besides, the sound is great if I forget the crack.

And Juan, do you have a clue how you got rid of the plops at stopping ? it may be valuable to others (and to me, because apparently I am doing something unconsciously that I never have the problem (at stop)).

Sorry but no, I have not the clue about the plops. It was not too loud and it wasn´t happening ALL the times when I used Alt+S. What I did lately was to install the Realtek driver that the Device Manager said it was uninstalled and to enable something called X.M.P. (eXtreme Memory Profile) in the Bios, that optimizes the memory frequency (before 1066Mhz, now 1600Mhz), I have no idea if it has anything to do with it. Before at some moment I set up the bios with the default settings. So at the end I´m not sure what could have fixed the plops and not sure either if that it is not going to happen again. If I get more information in the next days about the cracks or plops I´ll let you know.

Hey, thanks for your words of encouragement.

Best regards,
Juan

[PeterSt]

Interesting about that memory. This makes me think it happened here when I overclocked a little. I really must try that again …

Thanks !
Peter

[juanpmar]

[from "Playback Drive (for advanced PC usage !)]:

"The Playback drive is to be considered as a general playback source to which all goes - and ends up in the very same way.
BUT :
It will still be your Playback Drive itself which determines the sound."


As has been stated by some other ones here, the use of one or another medium as Playback Drive changes the sound, some of us use an old Sata II or a Sata III hdd (7.200rpm, 5.600rpm or 3.600rpm), USB flash drives or SSDs, etc. What makes me think that this is an important issue is the fact that it leaves out of control a very influential part of the sound system. On the other hand, what could we do?. The only solution I can imagine is to try different mediums as Playback Drive and put here our findings. We shouldn´t underestimate the importance of this feature, as Mani said. So, I urge to you all to share your experiences.

This is mine:

I used, so far, four Playback Drive mediums, all of them connected to an USB 3.0 motherboard port through an USB 3.0 powered hub:

- USB 3.0 flash drive: not bad SQ but the sound is in the cool side. I wouldn´t recommend it

- USB3 external hdd, usb powered. Better SQ than the usb flash drive, clear sound, but also a little in the cool side. Can be a good choice. Maybe if this hdd would be external powered the sound would be other...

- Internal WD Green, 5.200rpm. The sound seems darker than the other ones. I don´t like it.

- External powered USB2.0 hdd, 7.200rpm, buffer 8Mb (Seagate/LaCie Porsche). The best sound so far, very clear and big sound stage a little on the warm side.

Juan

 

[PeterSt]

Hi Juan - Thanks and great idea.

At this moment I myself have nothing much to contribute, but this is because I "want" to approach this differently. And well, it is a complex thing ...

The last couple of days I am listening to my own "XXHighEnd PC" now, and this is known to produce better bass and more snap. Yes, I said "more snap" - not immediately "better". But this is the dangerous thing ...
Example, The Beatles with their ever changing sound from XXHighEnd - and even NOS1 versions ... too profound highs. This is with an internal 7200 SATAIII 64MB cache Playback Drive. And I refuse to think this is wrong ...

And so tonight I solved the problem completely (shiver) by going back to the good old SFS of 430. Btw, Q1 = 14, Q1F = 10 (DevBufSize stays at 4096). Possibly this creates a somewhat less "metal" on the cymbals for non-Beatles tracks, but maybe that was too much in the first place (well, that is what I am trying to put in my brains now ).

Ehm, tweak forever ?

Regards and thanks,
Peter

[boleary]

Sometimes it's a bit frustrating being a "button pusher" and having no understanding why one "button" sounds better than another, especially around this forum with all of you nerdy brainiacs! Please, don't take offense; I'm in awe and jealous of your collective knowledge on the subjects of electronics and audio. Thankfully, though,  the sensation of sound is just that; it doesn't require any special knowledge. So with that said I categorically state the following:

In my system, the sound of music ripped directly to the OS drive (3tb, 7200 rpm, UEFI interface, true SATA III cable) is better than everything I've tried as a playback drive. That includes creating a true 5 gig "playback drive partition" on the 3tb drive, as well as a standard 64 kb blocksize partition created to backup the "C" drive music folder when I recently reinstalled the OS. I copied/pasted (15 to 20 gigs at a time--this took an entire day) all the music onto the partition. Thankfully, that reinstall did not result in the loss of my music so the backup wasn't necessary. Other devices I've tried as playback drives were a 500 gig WD 7200 rpm drive and a seagate 1.5 tb drive. Both formatted with XXHighend. Everything I've tried, including the standard backup partition sounds dull or flat compared to music ripped directly to the "C" drive. Because earlier in this thread, Nick, who has the same MB as I, reported that his playback drive sounds better than music ripped directly to his OS drive (no UEFI-SATA III interface), I can only conclude that the UEFI interface has something to do with the incredibly rich, smooth and lifelike sound in my room. Interestingly, the difference between my preferred set up and everything else is very similar to the difference between PA engaged and not engaged--the music just comes alive like never before.

So. I really hope one of you crazies decides to see just how crazy  I am by duplicating my madness and reporting your findings.

A couple more things. The sound I'm getting seems so true that I am now able to notice differences in sound like never before--or I've gone completely batsh*t crazy! First, EAC rips are better than dbpoweramp. But, if you want that dull sound use dbPoweramp. Second, you may read that there is no difference between a true SATA III cable and a SATA II cable. Perhaps regarding speed that's true; regarding sound it's not--the SATA III cable, here on my system, makes a very big difference.

[CoenP]

Good read,

But what is an UEFI formatted SATA III drive?
Is that about the Bios being able to boot from a 3TB+ drive?

Regards, Coen

[boleary]

Yes

[stefanobilliani]

In my system, the sound of music ripped directly to the OS drive (3tb, 7200 rpm, UEFI interface, true SATA III cable) is better than everything I've tried as a playback drive.

As a try , after the fooling around about UEFI interface and boots , I managed to create a GUID partition table . I am putting in some music .
who knows ...