PA will not engage playing 24/96

[Shoe]

   PA works great when playing 44.1 upsample to 88.2; but when playing 24/96 material PA will not engage! Why? Is there something I am missing? Thanks, PS my dac only plays up 24/96.   Thanks, Sam

[PeterSt]

Sam, totally correct observation ! Upsample that 24/96 and it works.
Same with native 24/192; that doesn't work either.

Hats off to you, because WallPaper Coveart shows it's okay. But it really is not ...

Thanks,
Peter

[Shoe]

Thanks Peter for your reply! Just to be clear, I will need to upsample to 192?  If my dac only does 96 then I am out of luck right?

[PeterSt]

Nah Sam, I will be the lucky guy to find the culprit. I thought I really went through all of it for 0.9z-7-3 but appearently I must have missed some (basic) code. So, it just can work, but not without me solving the issue.

N.b.: Upsampling to 192 works; I checked that yesterday.

Peter

[PeterSt]

Well, I needed an appropriate smiley for this, so this must be the one ...

Sam, let me try to get you under the influence of The Placebo. Well, others can apply just the same.

I just have been looking for several hours why the heck the native 96Khz (88.2) and 192Khz (176.4) won't let themselves "Phase Aligned". All I could see is that it had to work. But since the means to really check it is to look for it's DC component and I didn't see that, I hooked up the analyser ...

I know, I dedicated myself a Nobel Prize for this, and it sure was no coincidence how Phase Alignment was created and it sure was expected that a DC component would be the result, but ...

But that doesn't mean that I understood what I really made. Well, I did, but now I don't anymore.

So, first off, Phase Alignment *does* work for these native Hires files. But the code for these files is different from the upsampling code (via Arc Prediction) and now I seem to have explored a means of Phase Alignment without DC exhibit. And, it looks like this can be applied to all 24 bit DACs for normal Arc Prediction filtering/upsampling. Not that it will ever be easy to do (and maybe I won't because of the enormous pile of work it implies), but I think it can and it would let emerge another new "feature" and at least one which definitely will be plop-free. But okay ...

So, since the analyser will tell me that when Phase Alignment is active the THD+N is 1.5-2 dB better, with these native Hires files this just happens the same. At this moment I can't reason out how it can work, but of course I know how the code looks like and it sure can work. Btw, I can (now) let it work in the normal fashion just the same - with the same THD+N figures ... only the DC component is different. So, I rather let it be as it is now (in 0.9z-7-3) and let "you" decide first. And please notice that I don't like Hires anyway, so don't even start thinking to ask it to me myself.

And so the placebo :
Could it perhaps be that with Phase Alignment engaged - and where you just can look at the Coverart (*~* / *I*) to see whether it really did ... that you at least perceive a different sound ? Or that it is even better, as intended ?

It is a somewhat dangerous thing to 100% expect
a. SQ will be better;
b. It works out the very same as in the Upsampling situation,
because it *has* to be different (because it just is). And, the even more dangerous part : I can expect this to be related to the DAC (the D/A chips in there). So, where I definitely measure the better THD+N for the NOS1, I can not measure "your DACs". Also please notice that I don't expect that the better THD+N figures create that better sound, now known from Phase Alignment; the better THD+N is just another exhibit, althout I could expect that in advance.

Sam, for you without being able to concentrate on PA because you thought it didn't work : watch for the infinite purity. But also : do please notice that the native 88.2 or 96 really has to be good, with a chance of maybe 1% if you pick them randomly (like from HDTracks).

So far for now.
Regards,
Peter

[PeterSt]

First picture placeboes you without Phase Alignment.
Second is with.

1Khz, Native Sample Rate = 96KHz, -9dBFS (test signal itself -3dBFS (to total -12dBFS)).

[PeterSt]

Same sequence, but now the harmonics :

[stefanobilliani]

So Arc Prediction is fooled by the native frequency .... somehow ...

[PeterSt]

No no, the code is just different. Say that I ("have to") work in another digital domain there to arrange for everything. This, while playing native material doesn't need that (because nothing is to be applied to it).

[stefanobilliani]

No no, the code is just different. Say that I ("have to") work in another digital domain there to arrange for everything. This, while playing native material doesn't need that (because nothing is to be applied to it).

OK .

[stefanobilliani]

Then  Peter , what will I expect if using a native 88.2Khz file and pushing the fx button to let show the upsampling 'factor' x2 .... will be that AP would do nothing but Phase Alignement would apply its good effect without showing it on the cover art . Is that correct ?

s

[PeterSt]

WAIT !

I am not even awake here, but when I opened my eyes this morning I realized that I sure had applied changes to that particular piece of code. So, in "your" case (0.9z-7-3) it does NOT work at all.

Djeezz, I am the most glad that nobody was placeboed by this really and posted a "yea Peter !".
Hopefully nobody spent real time on this yet !

Apologies ...
Peter


PS: So, for 0.9z-7-4.

[PeterSt]

Then  Peter , what will I expect if using a native 88.2Khz file and pushing the fx button to let show the upsampling 'factor' x2 .... will be that AP would do nothing but Phase Alignement would apply its good effect without showing it on the cover art . Is that correct ?

Stefano,

Yes. Or almost (correct), because it will show it on the Coverart anyway (like now, but now (7-3) it is false, see previous post).
Also, it is not related to the fx button because that only depicts how the upsampling emerges (what it's base is actually). So, when the output is equal to the input (hence no upsampling) then it works this new way (remember, z-4).
But not when input and output is 16/44100.

But never mind for now please, because it's a bit of a moot thing for you at this moment.

Regards,
Peter

[Shoe]

Peter, when I play hi- Rez material with PA activated I do not get the loud crack noise when play is stop. Both alblum art and the lack of noise are consistent.   Sam

[stefanobilliani]

Then  Peter , what will I expect if using a native 88.2Khz file and pushing the fx button to let show the upsampling 'factor' x2 .... will be that AP would do nothing but Phase Alignement would apply its good effect without showing it on the cover art . Is that correct ?

Stefano,

Yes. Or almost (correct), because it will show it on the Coverart anyway (like now, but now (7-3) it is false, see previous post).
Also, it is not related to the fx button because that only depicts how the upsampling emerges (what it's base is actually). So, when the output is equal to the input (hence no upsampling) then it works this new way (remember, z-4).
But not when input and output is 16/44100.

But never mind for now please, because it's a bit of a moot thing for you at this moment.

Regards,
Peter

Ok I understand now , no prob .

stefano

[boleary]

I have never updated from 9Z-7. With PA engaged with High Res material I have to be very careful, as I can get some very loud ticks and plops if the volume is too high and I either hit stop or I try to change the volume. With 16/44 material upsampled 16x with XXHighend, the noises are minimal. The The High Res sound is exceptional though: classical music from High Definition Tape Transfers. What I don't understand is why 16X upsampling in the software results in such quite noises (ticks and plops) while native high res, not upsampled at all, gets a bit dangerous.

[PeterSt]

Easy - and the same as has been explained before when "all" thinks it is engaged while it is not : it fades out in the wrong direction (because it should not fade out at all). So, at this moment (0.9z-7-3 or eearlier) : only use PA and Hires when it is upsampled (to any rate).

Peter

[stefanobilliani]

Hi Peter ,

looking at your pictures in this topic , one question comes to mind :is Peak Extend essential with Phase Alignment? 


stefano

[PeterSt]

Stefano - Coincidence : I just today finally solved the "distortion" issue with Peak Extension (because I found a way to measure that). And yes, at this moment (0.9z-7-3) I sure would use Peak Extension. For 7-4 it won't matter anymore.

Regards,
Peter