XXHighEnd - The Ultra HighEnd Audio Player
March 28, 2024, 03:52:22 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News: August 6, 2017 : Phasure Webshop open ! Go to the Shop
Search current board structure only !!  
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 [All]
  Print  
Author Topic: Phase Alignment sound wise  (Read 21918 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Robert
Audio Enthusiast
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 445


View Profile Email
« on: September 13, 2012, 10:10:42 am »

At this point after finally getting it all to work I have to say I'm a little under whelmed with PA and in fact prefer not to use it.

PA in my system sounds like a filter. I'm much preferring it not engaged. I'm a drummer and cymbals are definitely dull sounding, lack sparkle. Sound stage is reduced the life appears to have gone from the music but it is smoother a bit like some power supply filter effects.

I realise this is early days, but PA needs more work to perfect it. Personally I think people need to tread very carefully trialling this new feature, checking DC is not something some people can do, there are still undiscovered effects of applying PA.

The sound coming from version -z73 is excellent anyway and a huge improvement over -z6. Everything is quicker and definitely less issues with ticks, SFS settings, coverart and xxhighend screen is better.
Logged

Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 12/24 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~997MHz, 48GB, W10, Pro64, Ver 14393, No updates,
XXhighend Ver 2.11a, Ram OS, Settings:Q1/-/3/4/5 = *14*/-/*0*/*0*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max *10.13*) / Disable Cracks Off / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ UnAttended / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 62 / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Custom Filtering *Low* (16x)
Music on LAN, Phasure Lush^3 USB cable
Oppo 205 UDP Dac
Nordost Heimdall II interconnects and Nordost Heimdall II Power Cords, Audioquest power cords
Minidsp Flex digital 2 way Crossover 167hz
Unity Audio Boulder MKI Active Monitors x 2
JLAudio 12 Active Subs x 2
PeterSt
Administrator
High Grade Audiophile
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16827



View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2012, 10:57:18 am »

Hi there Robert,

Let me tell you first : you are completely right in your observations. Ehm, well done ?
Happy

But if things were only that easy ...

The scenario :

We are both listening in my system to PA On and PA Off. We'd come to the very same conclusion as you just described. Mind you, this is my system, and mainly my DAC is a kind of another beast - but most important is that we come to exactly what you describe.
Also : I am not a drummer, but our son sort of is, and at least I bought him the drum kit several years ago so I can compare with real life. Still we both would come to this conclusion ...

Next I'd go further and show you that even a flagiolette (which are hamonic-wise the most complicated) will show less attack (which hardly is there anyway) with PA engaged.

Hey, we still agree !

But *then* I am going to proove to you by many examples that this attack and of course that freshness on the cymbals is only false. It is (higher frequency) distortion which is oh-so easy to incur for ...

Lastly I would show you how super-easy it is to get back those attacks by means of XXHighEnd settings and when we *now* shut off Phase Alignment all sounds way too fresh and distortion will be profound.

This latter is a story only because I can't proove it by agreement (yet) or advise about XXHighEnd settings. This is because of your other DAC *and* its inherent way of working which puts a layer over things anyway. But let's say that layers can be harmless BUT now we can't talk about the same thing easily (we'll need listening to the same thing both).

So for now I can have one advice only, really :
Keep that PA up for a week or so, maybe dive into XX settings to squeeze out more freshness in general and only after that week (never A-B in between !), switch off PA.
At least in my case I will not be able to listen to it anymore, because I will hear distortion only. That should happen to you too.
In the mean time, of course, without PA you will still perceive more attack from the cymbals. But that is a technical means of listening/judging (which I sure do also) and which by no means will lead to better music through loudspeakers when that part is solved as the only part.


In the end of course it is about what you like best. So, no way I or anyone should hold you back from that. So, above story is only there because I completely agree with you on the out of context facts. This is why you should -just like me- be able to turn it all into the better ...

Haha, that's all.
Thanks !
Peter
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

Global Moderator
Eric
Audio Enthusiast
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 248


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2012, 11:17:51 am »

Robert,
may I add a little experience from myself.
When I play with my preamp removed from the audiochain, the (positive) effect with 09-z7 and PA engaged is much bigger than without PA.
Furthermore, playing in Normal OS is horrible with 09-z7 and PA engaged.
I hope this helps.

Cheers
Eric
Logged

3.2GHz CPU, 8GB RAM, XXHE 1.186a, W7x64 SP1 Ultimate on 2.5" 10Krpm SATAII spinning disk, 8GB RAM / KS:Phasure NOS1 Out 4.0 / #4 Engine / Adaptive / Buffer 4096 / ClockRes 1ms/ Stop All Services / Monitor Off / SFS = 0.4 / not Invert / No XTweaks / Playback Drive = External USB3 (USB powered) HDD / Unattended/ Minimize OS / Peak Ext / ArcPredict / PA- / Q1,-,3,4,5=14,-,0,0,0
Control Panel: Sample Rate: 352.800kHz/ USB Buffer Size: 8ms
Amps: BD-Design bridged Gainclones
manisandher
Crazy Audiophile
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2112

from-first-principles.com


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2012, 01:12:31 pm »

In my case, PA(-) sounds flatter and duller than without PA - just as you describe. But PA(+) gives me a better sound than I've ever had before.

Try both - and + before making a judgement on PA. If after that you still prefer the sound without PA, then cool.

Interestingly, my single-ended 300B amp shows an identical behaviour pattern - reversing the polarity of the speaker terminals makes it sound way, way more life-like. I've always thought that maybe its inherent harmonic distortion is cancelling that of the speakers' in some way.... but I have no real evidence for this, other than the improvement in sound.

Mani.
Logged

Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
Gerard
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1077


WWG1WGA


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2012, 06:54:33 pm »

In my case, PA(-) sounds flatter and duller than without PA - just as you describe. But PA(+) gives me a better sound than I've ever had before.

Try both - and + before making a judgement on PA. If after that you still prefer the sound without PA, then cool.

Interestingly, my single-ended 300B amp shows an identical behaviour pattern - reversing the polarity of the speaker terminals makes it sound way, way more life-like. I've always thought that maybe its inherent harmonic distortion is cancelling that of the speakers' in some way.... but I have no real evidence for this, other than the improvement in sound.

Mani.

Hey Mani,

That + you talk about is that with of without IPASE engaged?

thanx

 Happy
Logged

Januari 2017 XX 2.05
OriginAE x11v Home build HTCP ~ Asus x79 mobo 3930K 12 core underclock 500 MHz,
16GB, *Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0* *from RAM*, music on music server / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.10*  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core *3-5* / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive *none* (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best (OS from RAM issue) / Time Stability = Off (OS from RAM issue) / Custom Filter Mid 705600 / -> USB3 (Silverstone both sides isolated = Sw#3 of NOS1a = Up) -> *Clairixa USB 15cm* -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 0.70m -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink ->> Metrum Amps ->> Metrum Acoustics ESL Open Baffle.
CoenP
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 818


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2012, 08:52:34 pm »

Fwiw,

I injected a little zest into my setup again by lowering the buffers on XX side (see my sig). I have a NOS1 though.

I feel I never had better digital in my home, especially on the timing (musicality) side ,which I value highly. This fell into place with the low buffers and dc blocking cap on the poweramp input (no preamp).

Regards, Coen
Logged

Settings: Qn: , SFS: , timeres: XT tweaks: , buf: 4096, driver: 8 ms,

Audio PC (jan 19): XXHE PC v1 with RAMdisk w.o. videocard and 1 of 2 cpu fans + BRIX/USB3 storage musicserver. ETN to Fibre converters (linear supplies), 500m SFP modules & 5m OM4 cable. Power cable PE not connected, together with nos1 and poweramp in separate "audio" powerstrip.

Clarixa set + Intona (or Lush 1m), Phasure NOS1a-75B G3 USB (buf 16 ms)-> Blaxius ->SE EL95 (0,8W triode) + cheap link to Abaqus 300W plateamps> Bastanis cable-> Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo ("DIY").

[other sources: TD124/3009SII-i/Grace F9/lounge LCR phono; Rega Planet 1997 vintage]
PeterSt
Administrator
High Grade Audiophile
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16827



View Profile Email
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2012, 07:55:31 am »

Hey Coen,

And you don't have any ticks etc. from Phase Alignment with these settings ?

Quote
ltcy=2048; q1, q1fact =1; appt scheme: 3; sfs =8; ph alignm=on PAx=0 (-);

Thanks,
Peter
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

Global Moderator
phantomax
Audio Loudspeaker
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 163


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2012, 12:51:31 pm »

Probably I am off topic  but I think this post can be included here. Before the z7 version I used to identify the disc folders with a symbol "&" when the music sounded better with phase invert. This was for time save. Here we have a popular adage I'll try to translate : "We are spending the wine in tastings" (similar in other countries for sure). The wine here is time, and  time is gold.

Now things are getting more complex. Even that classification is no valid anymore because the phase behaviour seems to be different. So I am going to identify the folders again with another symbols depending of which PA settings sound better. Although this is very tedious I think It's worth the effort.

Peter, you are going to kill me to ask for that, but it would be nice to implement some kind of visual feature
like the color code for the different music formats in order to remember the best PA settings for each folder. 
innocent

Best regards

Maxi
Logged

Audio PC -> AsRock Z79 intel i-3 4170  @~800MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, DIY Linear Power Supply. music on LAN /
Engine#4 Special Mode/Q1/-/3/4/5=*30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *5* / Dev.Buffer = 1024 /ClockRes = *15ms* /Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect /
SFS = *0,69*  (max 0,69 / Phase Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 1-3 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback
Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best / Time Stability = not stable / *Custom Filtering low for 176400* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> Modified Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 internal soundcard with analog tube buffer (Broskie cathode follower) -> Passive biamplification: Canary Audio CA-301 MkII for highs- mids and Counterpoint SA-100 for lows -> Audiovector M-3 Super / modified Musical Fidelity X-3 (6h6p tubes) -> Grado 1000 headphones.
PeterSt
Administrator
High Grade Audiophile
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16827



View Profile Email
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2012, 01:03:24 pm »

Well, if you watch closely to what's said in this topic, you ca see coming what I thought myself only 3 or 4 days back : remember those settings per album (or track) and auto-apply them later ...

This is something I brought up some longer time ago, but back then it seemed to me that this was a wrong path to follow. But today ? today it looks like it is unavoidable that the one album needs other settings as the other to sound at its best.

But the major problem :

At any next XXHighEnd version those settings should be invalidated. Or, "the setting involved" (ie the one which now sounds different) should be. And *now* suddenly it won't be a functionality easy to implement ...

Anyway I hear you ...
Peter
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

Global Moderator
CoenP
Audio Addict
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 818


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2012, 01:33:24 pm »

Hey Coen,

And you don't have any ticks etc. from Phase Alignment with these settings ?

Quote
ltcy=2048; q1, q1fact =1; appt scheme: 3; sfs =8; ph alignm=on PAx=0 (-);

Thanks,
Peter


Nope, not any that I remarked anyway.

Regards, Coen
Logged

Settings: Qn: , SFS: , timeres: XT tweaks: , buf: 4096, driver: 8 ms,

Audio PC (jan 19): XXHE PC v1 with RAMdisk w.o. videocard and 1 of 2 cpu fans + BRIX/USB3 storage musicserver. ETN to Fibre converters (linear supplies), 500m SFP modules & 5m OM4 cable. Power cable PE not connected, together with nos1 and poweramp in separate "audio" powerstrip.

Clarixa set + Intona (or Lush 1m), Phasure NOS1a-75B G3 USB (buf 16 ms)-> Blaxius ->SE EL95 (0,8W triode) + cheap link to Abaqus 300W plateamps> Bastanis cable-> Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo ("DIY").

[other sources: TD124/3009SII-i/Grace F9/lounge LCR phono; Rega Planet 1997 vintage]
phantomax
Audio Loudspeaker
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 163


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2012, 04:47:45 pm »

Hello Peter,

I asked you for a visual feature to remind the best PA settings for a particular folder but  now I think  it's a nonsense because it's  simpler to change the folder icon with another one easy to detect  in the left XXHE root panel and that's it. I totally agree that the other solution has to be too complicated and it would create confusion in the long term.

Regards
Maxi
Logged

Audio PC -> AsRock Z79 intel i-3 4170  @~800MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, DIY Linear Power Supply. music on LAN /
Engine#4 Special Mode/Q1/-/3/4/5=*30*/-/*1*/*1*/*1*/ Q1Factor = *5* / Dev.Buffer = 1024 /ClockRes = *15ms* /Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect /
SFS = *0,69*  (max 0,69 / Phase Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 1-3 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback
Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / *OSD Off* / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best / Time Stability = not stable / *Custom Filtering low for 176400* / Always Clear Proxy before Playbck = On -> Modified Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 internal soundcard with analog tube buffer (Broskie cathode follower) -> Passive biamplification: Canary Audio CA-301 MkII for highs- mids and Counterpoint SA-100 for lows -> Audiovector M-3 Super / modified Musical Fidelity X-3 (6h6p tubes) -> Grado 1000 headphones.
manisandher
Crazy Audiophile
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2112

from-first-principles.com


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2013, 12:44:20 am »

PA in my system sounds like a filter. I'm much preferring it not engaged. I'm a drummer and cymbals are definitely dull sounding, lack sparkle. Sound stage is reduced the life appears to have gone from the music but it is smoother a bit like some power supply filter effects.

But *then* I am going to proove to you by many examples that this attack and of course that freshness on the cymbals is only false. It is (higher frequency) distortion which is oh-so easy to incur for ...

I have to say that Robo's description of PA(-) is spot on. So, this is down to reduced distortion, is it?

I've just compared no-PA, PA(-) and PA(+) again and I'd describe the differences as:

1. no PA - nice, but flat (in comparison to 3.)
2. PA(-) - very easy on the ear, but duller than 1.
3. PA(+) - exciting and dynamic with loads of 'sparkle', but has a 'hollow' sort of sound, a reduced low end and is perhaps fatiguing over time

FYI, PA(-) sounds a bit like PA(+) if I reverse the polarity of the speaker cables at both ends... which I guess is to be expected, no?

Mani.
Logged

Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
PeterSt
Administrator
High Grade Audiophile
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16827



View Profile Email
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2013, 08:11:49 am »

Mani,

Quote
FYI, PA(-) sounds a bit like PA(+) if I reverse the polarity of the speaker cables at both ends... which I guess is to be expected, no?

Correct.

Quote
3. PA(+) - exciting and dynamic with loads of 'sparkle', but has a 'hollow' sort of sound, a reduced low end

This is logic. The effect would come down to using reversed Absolute Phase but more "absolute". So, while the correct Absolute Phase depends on many connections and processes in the chain (of at least the recording), and one voice being OK for it while the other is reversed, PA+ (with normal Absolute Phase) would always incur for the wrong effect which officially *is* hollow.

But it is you who wanted PA+ back ... haha
It really can't be right. You may like it, but it can't be right.

Peter
Logged

For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

Global Moderator
manisandher
Crazy Audiophile
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2112

from-first-principles.com


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2013, 10:32:14 am »

But it is you who wanted PA+ back ... haha
It really can't be right. You may like it, but it can't be right.

The whole thing's a moving target. When PA was first introduced, most of us were on high SFSs and we didn't have XTweaks. I can't remember the state of my hardware, but I'm sure it was different. But certainly, PA(-) just sounded too dull.

But today, I can get a very nice sound out of PA(-). In comparison to PA(+), it still sounds 'dull', but way more 'natural'. This is especially true with female voices.

I started using PA(-) when you removed PA(+) as an option. Even though PA(+) is back, I will continue with PA(-).

Mani

Edit: When Paul visited, we used PA(-) exclusively.
Logged

Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
Jud
Audio Enthusiast
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 292


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2013, 01:18:34 pm »


But today, I can get a very nice sound out of PA(-). In comparison to PA(+), it still sounds 'dull', but way more 'natural'. This is especially true with female voices.


Mani


Maybe a situation in which longer term listening to one mode rather than A/Bing may give a truer picture.  If one is bright, no matter whether correct or due to distortion, the other will surely sound dull in a rapid comparison.  Try each for a while on its own merits, and pay no attention to "audiophile" stuff.  (I always express this as "No one ever came out of a Pavarotti recital raving about the bass response and soundstage.")  See what you like better then.
Logged

Win 7 64-bit; i7-950@3.07GHz; 16GB RAM; OS on SATA 6GB/s SSD; AIFF files on external FW HDD; XXHE and Playback Drive on separate RAMdisks; no page file; Audioquest Dragonfly DAC/preamp; PSE Studio IV amp; Pioneer SP-BS22-LR bookshelf speakers or Etymotic Research ER-4P in-ear monitors.  XXHE 0.9z-8-3a settings for the moment: Peak Extend; Arc Prediction; Redbook files upsampled 2x; KS Adaptive Mode; Phase Alignment off; buffer=512; Straight Contiguous; Playerprio=Low; ThreadPrio=RealTime; Unattended; OS minimized; all services off; Q1=17, factor=2; SFS=2.1; XXTweaks=Ultimate; Time Performance Index=Not the best.
manisandher
Crazy Audiophile
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2112

from-first-principles.com


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2013, 01:52:29 pm »

Yep, definitely the way to do things.

I tend to do a lot of (too much?) A/Bing. But what's interesting is that as I oscillate between the options, I'm pretty certain I end up with the one that I would have chosen in longer term listening anyway. And it's usually the one that's easier on the ear and not objectionable in any way.

Mani.
Logged

Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
boleary
Crazy Audiophile
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1233


View Profile Email
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2013, 03:25:15 am »

Geeze, I've been listening to PA+ since last night and it does sound more "alive". This afternoon I played Eva Cassidy exclusively. I thought she'd sound best with PA- but no, she sounded more present or in the room with PA+. One way of describing the difference is that PA+ sounds like its about 1.5 db louder but its really not! For the moment I'm very much liking the PA+ sound. Dunno how long that will last.....Thanks Mani.
Logged

XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *.02,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *40* / Nervous Rate = 1/ Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
boleary
Crazy Audiophile
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1233


View Profile Email
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2013, 02:40:02 pm »

Well PA+ distorts at the volume levels I've become accustomed to with PA-. PA- just sounds completely "correct" when music is played at around 86-92 SPL, measured from the sweetspot. However this "correctness", including punch and livelyness, of PA- isn't "there" until you reach a certain volume level. Until you reach that "spot", PA- sounds good but not as lively or present as PA+. So I guess I'm back to PA-. Mani, next time PA- sound a bit dull, up the volume one "click" and see what happens.
Logged

XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *.02,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *40* / Nervous Rate = 1/ Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
manisandher
Crazy Audiophile
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2112

from-first-principles.com


View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2013, 03:49:48 pm »

PA(-) all the way here Happy

Mani.
Logged

Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.11 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=4.00 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^3 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5 mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Stealth II -> Lush^2 -> RME ADI-2 Pro FS R -> Neurochrome 286 mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
Pages: 1 2 [All]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1 RC2 | SMF © 2001-2005, Lewis Media Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.071 seconds with 19 queries.