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Author Topic: Practicing Delayed Gratification  (Read 6872 times)
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Jud
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« on: September 26, 2012, 04:31:01 am »

Was looking forward to -4, then saw the note about PA not working for "needs 24" DACs, of which I believe mine (Audioquest Dragonfly) is one.

Oh well - back to anticipation.

When you say this will be resolved in a next version, Peter, you mean -5 rather than z-8, right (I hope)?
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Win 7 64-bit; i7-950@3.07GHz; 16GB RAM; OS on SATA 6GB/s SSD; AIFF files on external FW HDD; XXHE and Playback Drive on separate RAMdisks; no page file; Audioquest Dragonfly DAC/preamp; PSE Studio IV amp; Pioneer SP-BS22-LR bookshelf speakers or Etymotic Research ER-4P in-ear monitors.  XXHE 0.9z-8-3a settings for the moment: Peak Extend; Arc Prediction; Redbook files upsampled 2x; KS Adaptive Mode; Phase Alignment off; buffer=512; Straight Contiguous; Playerprio=Low; ThreadPrio=RealTime; Unattended; OS minimized; all services off; Q1=17, factor=2; SFS=2.1; XXTweaks=Ultimate; Time Performance Index=Not the best.
PeterSt
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« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2012, 09:06:04 am »

Well ... I honestly hope I will be able to solve it al all ...

All 'n all it took me 60 hours only to have natively played 24 bit files work for Phase Alignment. So, not upsampled. The point here is : this implies no "32 bit calculations" while all is setup like that. So, with 60 hours of looking at data and trying and inverting and what not, I could get something going which maybe officially can't. But, theoretically it could in advance, because (most of) our DACs are not 32 bits and it *thus* works with 24 bits anyway. But now the "Needs 24" situation. This is different, because here, officially, nothing is calculated in the 32 bit domain, while Phase Alignment *still* does that. Thus, also for natively 24 bit files (by now).

I had to give up on the "Needs 24" because at this moment I just don't see how to do things;
With this kind of 24 bit stuff, the guy who invented 24 bit transfer (because that's what it is) should be hanged. And FYI, when a. WASPI came about (you know I was ahead with this over a year of others) and b. the (USB !) DAC's transferring with 24 bits (to save on bandwidth which is totally unnecessary - ehm, see my 32/768 transfer over USB2) created problems for really years for everybody. And yes, back then it was "GR" who out of all (but totally obvious) could help me out. He wasn't right on all he said, but in the mean time did help me out because he gave the insight. Right now ? now I can only say that with a 256 times less calculation room I need a totally consistent fixed number based on the roughness of the data itself, while the rounding which happens after all always in-DAC goes by an electrical fashion which just works out (hey, I too use a 24 bit DAC and it is perfectly okay). In brief : something which is solved in-DAC (think about i2s which is 32 bits and converts to 24 bit) now must be done by myself. And I can't do it, because with the 24 bit transfer I already *have* done this myself, but now needs that 32 bits again FIRST. So, change around 50,000 lines of code which evolved over many years and just works okay ? And knowing that this native 24 bit files comprise of maybe 10 lines of code only and *that* took me 60 hours ??
I rather wait until I got more smart first ...

Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2012, 07:14:05 pm »

 24 needs dac: I am not sure I understand! If I have a 24 bit dac, PA will not work with the current software?   Sam
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PeterSt
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« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2012, 07:41:40 pm »

Sam,

This counts when your DAC will only produce sound when "DAC Needs" in XXHighEnd Settings is set to 24 ...

Regards,
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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Jud
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« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2012, 12:56:52 pm »

Well ... I honestly hope I will be able to solve it al all ...

I think it was the engineers at General Electric who used to have a saying: "The difficult we do immediately; the impossible takes a little longer."   Wink

Quote
I had to give up on the "Needs 24" because at this moment I just don't see how to do things;
With this kind of 24 bit stuff, the guy who invented 24 bit transfer (because that's what it is) should be hanged. And FYI, when a. WASPI came about (you know I was ahead with this over a year of others) and b. the (USB !) DAC's transferring with 24 bits (to save on bandwidth which is totally unnecessary - ehm, see my 32/768 transfer over USB2) created problems for really years for everybody. And yes, back then it was "GR" who out of all (but totally obvious) could help me out. He wasn't right on all he said, but in the mean time did help me out because he gave the insight. Right now ? now I can only say that with a 256 times less calculation room I need a totally consistent fixed number based on the roughness of the data itself, while the rounding which happens after all always in-DAC goes by an electrical fashion which just works out (hey, I too use a 24 bit DAC and it is perfectly okay). In brief : something which is solved in-DAC (think about i2s which is 32 bits and converts to 24 bit) now must be done by myself. And I can't do it, because with the 24 bit transfer I already *have* done this myself, but now needs that 32 bits again FIRST. So, change around 50,000 lines of code which evolved over many years and just works okay ? And knowing that this native 24 bit files comprise of maybe 10 lines of code only and *that* took me 60 hours ??
I rather wait until I got more smart first ...

Peter

The Dragonfly is USB1 (apparently GR/AQ didn't want to make it necessary to download drivers for Windows), so perhaps the bandwidth limitation is a bit more justified in this particular instance.  Doesn't make things any easier for you, though.
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Win 7 64-bit; i7-950@3.07GHz; 16GB RAM; OS on SATA 6GB/s SSD; AIFF files on external FW HDD; XXHE and Playback Drive on separate RAMdisks; no page file; Audioquest Dragonfly DAC/preamp; PSE Studio IV amp; Pioneer SP-BS22-LR bookshelf speakers or Etymotic Research ER-4P in-ear monitors.  XXHE 0.9z-8-3a settings for the moment: Peak Extend; Arc Prediction; Redbook files upsampled 2x; KS Adaptive Mode; Phase Alignment off; buffer=512; Straight Contiguous; Playerprio=Low; ThreadPrio=RealTime; Unattended; OS minimized; all services off; Q1=17, factor=2; SFS=2.1; XXTweaks=Ultimate; Time Performance Index=Not the best.
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