0.9z-8-2 (Windows 7)

[PeterSt]

Uh-oh, it is awfully quiet in here. Maybe that is not a good sign. Or maybe by now everybody is afraid to say something ? Don't hold back please.

In the mean time I have something to say myself :

Yesterday, playing somewhat different material than the days before, I suddenly noticed a strange "shrillish" (?) kind of resonance in voices (actually it was the voice of Steve Miller). Before that I already heard a not-so-nice Jensed Gad album (from Enigma) and actually on purpose played ELO, knowing that this can sound "grey-ish" or better, always does but it can be the familiar sound from ELO, or it can be annoying. And so the latter was the case, although I never heard it so refined.
And so I started digging what it could be, and after two hours of changing settings () I found this :

This is my normal Audio PC with the 870 processor and it can easily take 85 for Balanced Load (won't run hot). And so I had it set at 85 to have it all not unnecessary slow. However, I already know that above a certain value there is something going on which I don't like and the higher Balanced Load is set, the worse this gets. And so I set it to 43 (the minimum where it is still active) and the culprit had vanished.

It is my suspicion that this will count for everybody, and do notice that I have seen at least one post (I forgot from whom) who noticed similar. Although that post implied that the lot running more hot -or actually would imply PSU noise) would not be the best (I now think it was Mani) but personally I don't think it is about the that; it is just that OS behaviour I see which nicely resembles what I now heard. Although what we hear is at micro level and we can't see that (unless I create home-brew plots for it; might even be a good idea).

Later I played the same Jens Gad again, and nothing wrong was with it anymore.


FYI:
It is always good to now and then try stuff from Enigma (or Gad) and/or from ELO. You must know it well to use it as a reference, but when you start with it today, it will be that reference soon. Why ? because the both contain I-don't-know-what for a sort of greyness because of high frequencies which can become flawed or nasty. A special means of recording perhaps - I don't know. Btw, yesterday I for the first time heard how refined the cymbals in ELO actually can be. And so that is what I mean - it is special somehow and therewith good as test material. Just to play when you think you are all set with whatever you have new, and to check whether all really is right, because albums like from these artists should sound better just the same. When not, something went in a strange direction.

Peter

[AlainGr]

Hi Peter,

I am a little surprised too, but since I am still discovering the NOS1, I can only say that the sound is... Wonderful ! I tend to take it as a "whole" and sometimes I will hear a new detail that I never heard before. This tells me that the micro-information is even more present and for me it is for the better.

At some point, I have to admit that maybe I should think about getting another amplifier... Not that the one I have is bad, but I am sure I could hear better...

but I tend to to check for the voices and the percussions, provided that the recording is good, but even then I am discovering with the NOS1 that certain recordings are not as good as I thought with my previous combination (converter + dac)...

But we are in February, it is cold, all seems "slower" than normal and from my perspective, to feel that the temperature is getting for the better could surely help. Not very technical thoughts, but very true also

Alain

[AlainGr]

About ELO, would "Fire on High" (from Face the Music) be a good sample of what you mention ?

Alain

[CaOd]

Hi Peter,

I was just about to write something about my first experience with 0.9z-8-2, a little too late.

I have been following remotely (vacation, traveling) the news on Win 8, but never tried it myself.

I was just happy to get 8-2 up and running with no problems yesterday late at night and only played one CD (Moddi - Floriography).

What can I say - just terrific, hillarious, unbelievable sound.

More particular (with this incredibly dense music heard) you have achieved a very emotionally involving music representation. I am not so much focused on the last "bing" of a drumset, what counts more for me is the musical flow, the rhythmicality (? dont know if this word exists in English), the ambience of a recording room, the "physical presence" of instruments - all is perfect now, never have had my system playing at this level. Soundstage is huge, bass has right, precise contour (but not overweight, have to listen more double bass jazz music tonight to judge "crispiness"). Male voice of Moddi is at its best, focused, but not small, huge body and all details there, not analytical but integrated into a great representation of the voice. Channel separation is perfect, I might want to change the inclination angle of my speakers just to get a little more center, will try on the weekend.  

And yes, I had this effect that you described above (like a litte "echo", just once, thought it might be on the recording but never heard it before because now I sensed so many new details. Good to know that there is a fix for it, my processors run at 75 degree with the current settings, so a less temp demanding setting is appreciated.

Overall: I told my wife when I went to bed: "Yes, yes, yes crazy Peter did it again" (actually I said "the crazy dutch guy dit it again"... sorry, its my way of highest appreciation for the piece of art you have given to us), I was totally in emotional flow about this great release (so far, just one CD heard, more impressions if you like after the weekend).

Thanks for it, Peter. For me it works.

Carsten

(sorry, have not yet updated my sig)

[AlainGr]

There is one thing I never talked before. I can't recall when it happened, but I never really got powerful bass with my System 15 (15" dual concentric transducers), thus I got subs to compensate, but even so I did not get much bass.

It happens sometimes though that I listen while the subs are inactive (and the supertweeters stay "covered", as I don't find it easy to adjust their position over the mains). I get the best phase and coherence then.

One day (a few months ago), I thought my subs were active, because I was feeling a lot of good bass vibrations (not as "Boom Boom", simply more present and refined). No change on my part, no nothing, but maybe a change of version in XXHE. I don't recall with what version it occured to me, but I heard this bass coming from the mains and I was quite surprised. I always heard it, but not with that depth.

I never cared for the acoustics of my rooms, I just took what was there. But for the moment, I am not really interested in changing that acoustic, because what I get is always for the better...

And I have to admit that if I was to attempt putting acoustic panels on the wall, I would be banned from my own home !

And there is something I still have to get rid of: this nasty habit of feeling that the HF should be more prominent... This is an heritage of bad speakers listening (and bad digital dacs)... Many centuries ago, when I was recording my LPs on a cassette deck, I used to record with the Dolby ON, but listen with it OFF... I did not care about the tape hiss, since I preferred to have more treble than less...

And this nasty habit got the best of me for decades...

Finally, since I like to hear agressive electric guitar, the edginess and "metallic" feel of digital seemed to suit me better... Because something was lacking in my mind compared to vinyl. Now I understand that it was not the same, because there was always a veil over the CD sound. Not anymore...

So yes, I come from afar...

Alain

[Gerard]

Hi Peter,

I was just about to write something about my first experience with 0.9z-8-2, a little too late.

I have been following remotely (vacation, traveling) the news on Win 8, but never tried it myself.

I was just happy to get 8-2 up and running with no problems yesterday late at night and only played one CD (Moddi - Floriography).

What can I say - just terrific, hillarious, unbelievable sound.

More particular (with this incredibly dense music heard) you have achieved a very emotionally involving music representation. I am not so much focused on the last "bing" of a drumset, what counts more for me is the musical flow, the rhythmicality (? dont know if this word exists in English), the ambience of a recording room, the "physical presence" of instruments - all is perfect now, never have had my system playing at this level. Soundstage is huge, bass has right, precise contour (but not overweight, have to listen more double bass jazz music tonight to judge "crispiness"). Male voice of Moddi is at its best, focused, but not small, huge body and all details there, not analytical but integrated into a great representation of the voice. Channel separation is perfect, I might want to change the inclination angle of my speakers just to get a little more center, will try on the weekend.  

And yes, I had this effect that you described above (like a litte "echo", just once, thought it might be on the recording but never heard it before because now I sensed so many new details. Good to know that there is a fix for it, my processors run at 75 degree with the current settings, so a less temp demanding setting is appreciated.

Overall: I told my wife when I went to bed: "Yes, yes, yes crazy Peter did it again" (actually I said "the crazy dutch guy dit it again"... sorry, its my way of highest appreciation for the piece of art you have given to us), I was totally in emotional flow about this great release (so far, just one CD heard, more impressions if you like after the weekend).

Thanks for it, Peter. For me it works.

Carsten

(sorry, have not yet updated my sig)

Peter,

I totaly agree with the above!!

How do you do it!! 

Thanxxxxxx!!!! 

[christoffe]

Uh-oh, it is awfully quiet in here. Maybe that is not a good sign. Or maybe by now everybody is afraid to say something ? Don't hold back please.

Peter

Hi Peter,

Don't worry  be .............. .

Bass is perfect now, very tight. Have some problems with the heights, which are less accented now, and I will fiddle around with the settings now.

Joachim

[Arjan]

Hi,
I tried 8-2 on my netbook, but going into minimised os is not possible. I get the message to inform Phasure....... I do not have W7 Ultimate, that might be the reason. So i went back to the previous xxhe version.
On my netbook I do not use xtweaks because of the noise that is added. I think similar to what Peter posted.
regards, Arjan

[PeterSt]

Arjan, check your Activation.
Peter

[phantomax]

Hello,
In my case the application of the XXTweaks implies a lowering of the multiplier factor from 7,5 to 6 and thus a decrease in the CPU frequency from 2,4 to 1,9 MHz. As I pointed in an older post,  I downsized the FSB,  as Boleary suggested at that time, which is also a drop in CPU frequency, and it meant a improvement. Currently, besides the change in the multiplier factor, I've also lowered the fsb size so that the CPU is running at 1.7 MHz and I think there is some more improvement. So this seems to make sense. Of course there has to be a limit or at least an ideal point somewhere.

Otherwise, after a new W7 installation (again),    I don't want to rush in my estimation about the 0.9z-8-2 (Windows 7) version, so I don't need to eat my words again, but it sounds very promising.

Maxi

[boleary]

Bass is perfect now, very tight. Have some problems with the heights, which are less accented now, and I will fiddle around with the settings now.

Joachim

My first impression of 9Z8-2 is very similar to Joachim's. Everything sounded really wonderful except the "highs" which seem to lack the sense of "real presence:" the feeling that Eva, Joni, or The Wailing Jenny's, are actually in the room. It occurred to me when I was A-Bing that the magic of 9Z8-d or e is also its downfall. There is a depth to the high end that provides a kind of tonal richness that very much mimics "reality." However, if the volume is the least bit too loud or the singer moves too close to the mike that tonal richness breaks down and literally sounds ragged, sharp or hard edged.

Unfortunately my listening session was only an hour long so I need to do more listening, which may not happen for a while cause things at work are crazy busy. 

[Nick]

Bass is perfect now, very tight. Have some problems with the heights, which are less accented now, and I will fiddle around with the settings now.

Joachim

My first impression of 9Z8-2 is very similar to Joachim's. Everything sounded really wonderful except the "highs" which seem to lack the sense of "real presence:" the feeling that Eva, Joni, or The Wailing Jenny's, are actually in the room. It occurred to me when I was A-Bing that the magic of 9Z8-d or e is also its downfall. There is a depth to the high end that provides a kind of tonal richness that very much mimics "reality." However, if the volume is the least bit too loud or the singer moves too close to the mike that tonal richness breaks down and literally sounds ragged, sharp or hard edged.

Unfortunately my listening session was only an hour long so I need to do more listening, which may not happen for a while cause things at work are crazy busy. 

Hi Brian,

A couple more suggestions (besides Peters balanced load setting of 43 which works really well here), given we have the same mobo etc, these may also help with top end. Your probably doing these already but here goes.

In windows device manager, disable the two USB 2 ports on the mother board. Having these two USB ports enabled in device manager is the kiss of death for high frequency SQ on my PC.

Another thing to try is checking the box to give priority to background services in Computer => manage => advanced system settings => advanced => performance => settings => advanced => background services. This may have SQ effects elsewhere but seems to clean up the highs.

Cheers,

Nick.

[PeterSt]

Nick, I saw you mentioning the latter elsewhere already, but I don't think it is a good idea. There is too much involved to sort of "claim" that this works out for the better. It may change the sound though.

No problem to try it, if you only know that all the priority schemes are controlled already so the least you will achieve is messing with that hence make it inconcistent. May still sound better, but no logic will apply to anything anymore, especially when people have problems.

That's all !
Peter

[PeterSt]

By the wayyyy ...

If the general consensus is going to be that the higher frequency output is lessend, then I don't understand one f*ck of that. I never had such high frequency (for level) output before. And I think it is this reason why I now heard that strange kind of reverberation in s-es. But not sure. At least no any SFS setting and what not helped a bit to that, which is what I right away expected. I couldn't even hear a difference on the high frequencies when SFS was set to good old 430. Maybe we suffer from washing machine desease over here.

Anyone with horns who can agree with MORE higher frequency output (W7 !) ?

[boleary]

Thanks Nick. I already have all usb ports, except renesis, turned off in Device manager. Will give the "Priorities" tweak a listen when I get a chance. Am wondering though if you've formed any opinions on 9Z8-2 versus other 9Z8 versions (as used in W7)?