09-z83 Short Names Problem

[Scroobius]

OK we know I have a problem with DOS short names and the way I get around it is by not having "intermediate files" or "playback drive" set to any drive. So far so good no stopping problems due to short name with those settings.

So what happens in 09-z83? I always get the new "Short name......." alert message regardless what file I choose to play. And regardless of the fact that I do not have "intermediate or playback drive" set to anything. So basically I cannot use 09-z83.

Oh and by the way the "Short names ......." message appears on all file names regardless of their content.

Ah hum!!!

[PeterSt]

So Paul, your solution apparently has been a sort of strange one (without telling me ). I suppose this puts you in the same leage as mentioned under "the latter" in the Release Notes, right ?

(just trying to find some confirmation of you NOT being in that "former" leage where this change was made for, which is exactly you. )

Peter

[Scroobius]

OK so I have been flushed out as a "Latter" person so what do I do now to be able to use 09-z83?  Should I disable DOS short names in the OS (or does that then ensure that the message always comes up?) I don't really need it as I no longer use the playback drive (and I am happy not to do so). As far as I understand it XX only needs to read "short names" because of the playback drive feature.

By the way I thought I had told you when I posted

Peter - I have removed intermediate/playback disk references (i.e. no longer used) and there are no more problems. SQ is still as good as I could imagine so there are no drawbacks really.

The only problem now is that having pressed play I now have to run back to my chair to get there out of breath as the music starts.

Paul

[PeterSt]

Hey Paul,

It doesn't matter much what you told me, because remember, it was all a big confusion. Anyway, you are the nice test case now and I hope you will forgive me for that. But you're already experienced on the subject too, so ... Can we ?

If you open a command prompt and type :

fsutil 8dot3name query [enter]

Here is says :
The registry state of NtfsDisable8dot3nameCreation is 2, de default (Volume level setting).

What is your result ?

Please notice : I have been working on this with someone else who can't play a thing with diacritical marks (like ü etc.). This, while we haven't heard of that for years. Whatever I do myself I can't let it go wrong and this incluses shutting Off things which should be On regarding this. So I am baffled.

One more thing for now, and to avoid further confusion (which you already tried to sneak in again) :
The Short Dos 8.3 Names must be ON. Please put this in your mind. So, the system has to be able to create
\Led Ze~1\
out of
\Led Zeppelin\

Look in the log file like I told you in the other topic.

Thanks Paul ...
Peter

[Scroobius]

Peter - no problem I am happy to be your "guinea pig" (hope that translates OK ha ha). I shall also take extra special care not to be confusing 

Oh the joys of the Microsoft O/S how can one clean and very simple W7 install have such a problem? Thank you Bill Gates thank you so much.

I will investigate on my return home later.

Thanks as always

Paul

[PeterSt]

Thank you Paul. I am acutally the most curious what this can be.

Peter

[Scroobius]

Peter OK so I used fsutil 8dot3name query [enter]

and the result was

The registry state of NtfsDisable8dot3nameCreation is 2, the default <Volume level setting>

so now I will check out the log files

 

[Scroobius]

I dont see any short names in the attached

(notice the use of a Led Zeplin album ha ha)

[PeterSt]

Hey Paul, I am laughing my brains out, really. Lep Zeplin ?
Nah, really, it doesn't help you That's still 10. Try LeZuplin. That will convince me.

Anyways ... It's a bit difficult to type here, as you may notice.

Ok, no clue. Still laughin.
Back to the bottle.
Tomorrow maybe.

[PeterSt]

Paul, you really won't be able to imagine;
Just hours ago I rejected a whiskey taste/contest/whatever evening I got myself a ticket for. Why ? I must have gone mad. But I'm in some mood now. That, combined with watching ITV2 right now, which is a UK channel I think, made me laugh as long and outloud I can't remember. Led Zeplin ? hahaha. Oh boy.

I think I now will grab my photo camera and other sniffers and offer myself to make a report of this whiskey tasting stuff.
And perform some objective testing of course.

[Scroobius]

Reject a whisky tasting evening - mmm that has to be a worry!!

Would that be Zeplin programme be "Led Zeplin and the Music That Influenced" ? because I have just been watching that.

Peter - the log files posted above are using 09-z82 because 09-z83 will not play (because of the error msg) and therefore will not generate log files.

Just to avoid confusion 

Paul

[PeterSt]

What is the result from typing this in a Command Prompt (cmd) :

fsutil behavior query allowextchar [enter]

?

But at least here the stupid thing is that when this is off (here) it still all works.

Is it a normal disk you are playing from ? (USB connected is already not normal)

Paul, I still think it is a bit tricky to use your dot-tracks as the example here. I mean, it can well be that this never works. What happens when you remove that dot and put a ü (alt-129) somewhere ? If that also does not work then at least I know the situation is the same as with this other user.

Lastly, do you have a disk somewhere where you can switch the Short Names Off, and next On again (meaning : it takes a while I think). So, that's the fsutil disable8dot3 command you already know.

Btw, I would try this all in Normal OS Mode.

Peter

[Scroobius]

Peter - I have just completely reinstalled (yet another) W7 and downloaded 09-z83a and for the first time (it seems) short names does not seem to be a problem 

I am baffled I have installed W7 3 times before and each time had the short names problem. I have even just renamed a file to make sure it has odd characters in the title - and no problem it plays fine.

I will continue to monitor but so far everything seems fine.

And on first listen z83a with "ultimate" sounds really good - the sort of sound where you do not want to start messing with settings just listen to the music.

Baffled

Paul

[PeterSt]

Odd, very odd.

Maybe it stops working once in MinOS and *then* putting a new album to the disk ?
But if so, it still would be something that only happens to you (well, and that other guy).

Peter

[PeterSt]

Is it a normal disk you are playing from ? (USB connected is already not normal)

Paul, contestant #2, you never answered this question.

Contestant #1 here ... Does he have the answers ?



So ... Day before yesterday I "moved" a couple of albums from a normal disk to an USB3 disk. It may be noteworthy that the normal disk (the source) was put in an USB3 dock.
Yesterday I played one of these albums from its new location, or at least I tried it. The new message that Dos Short 8.3 names conversion failed popped up.
Huh ?
It was a .wav file and thus subject to this 8.3 happening (I think this was worked out earlier in this topic, but otherwise it's not important).

No strange characters were in the album title at all, and I tried half of the tracks (it was just a Dark Side of The Moon version). The album name was fairly long though and contained several dashes (-) and many numbers.

I copied the album to a normal internal disk et voilá, it worked again.

The more I read the quoted text above, the more I'm sure that I actually already reasoned out somewhere that Dos Short 8.3 names just can't work for a removable drive. But why run I into this only today ?

a. I built in that protection/message only a month ago;
b. Without conversion things seem to work just the same these days (not sure why). Meaning : Keep the long names because conversion fails (outputs the long names again) and there's no problem.
c. It could be coincidental that I finally played a .WAV from that USB3 disk while most is in FLAC (FLACs convert to other internal names).

Of course I am going to solve this and I'll let know in here what I found for reasons ...

Peter


PS: But Paul, can you answer the question please ?

[Scroobius]

Peter - it was a normal SATA disc (two partitions one for the o/s and one for the music) I only have one disc connected at any one time.

I loaded the o/s about 4 times (for various reasons!!) over a period of 2 months the last time I loaded the o/s the problem disappeared. As far as I know I did nothing different on the last o/s load so I have no idea what happened.

Let me know if you want me to try USB I have 64g USB3 stick I could play with - but let me know what you want me to do. I am not using a playback drive.

P

[PeterSt]

Thank you Paul.

[Scroobius]

Hi Peter  -  I note that you use a  Playback Drive = USB3 2TB as I said above I do not use a playback drive at present. A couple of questions:

1.  I originally stopped using the playback drive to get round the short names problem (IIRC XX only uses short names for writing to the playback drive). Does the short names error msg come up even if the playback drive is not being used (I thought it did but not sure now)

2.  When I was using playback drive I did not do any meaningful comparison of SQ versus not using it. Do you find it beneficial? I suppose you must or you would not use it but still it would be interesting to know the benefits.

Cheers

Paul

[PeterSt]

Hi Paul,

The Short Names are used once a .wav has to be stored elsewhere "on the run" opposed to leaving it where it sits. So, this happens with Copy to XX Drive and with utilizing the Playback Drive. Notice though that the conversion takes place in its "source environment" (hence it is  unrelated to where it goes to like e.g. the Playback Drive).

Re 2. : Maybe this is not a question I should answer. Numerous posts about it exist from off when 0.9z-7 was introduced (August 2012). My vote doesn't count. The vote of all does.

Peter

[PeterSt]

In my case the disk is exFAT formatted. Program code does not fail on it, but with particular Dos commands I can see that the Short Name commands error out.
So, exFAT does not support the Short Dos 8.3 Names ...

Paul, this probably explains why you suddenly got it working; before you had the disk exFAT formatted, and now you applied normal NTFS ...
(let's not bet for whisky this time)

Peter

[Scroobius]

Mmmm........... each time when reinstalling an o/s I format the target directory from the installation disc. To be honest it just formats and I never checked the file system (I do not remember there being an option to chose it) anyway whatever the default is what my discs will have been formatted to. But without ever looking for it obviously I cannot be sure. I will look out for it in future though.

Paul