09-z9 impressions

[Scroobius]

Is it my imagination or is this sounding very very good!

Am in the middle of "tweaking" the new amp so was not willing to introduce another variable - glad I did though.

P

Actually - after further listening WOW how do you do it Peter? it just gets better.

[CoenP]

Win7 or Win8?

regards, Coen

[PeterSt]

Yes, I think it is a good idea that everybody mentions which OS it is about.

Thanks ...
Peter

[Scroobius]

W7 for the moment as in signature.

Peter - is this a placebo effect should I be hearing SQ improvement in W7?

Cheers

Paul

[PeterSt]

No placebo if all is right Paul. All what has been done on behalf of Windows 8 helps WIndows 7 also. Except "half" of the application of Q5, which helps Windows 8 more than Windows 7 (see ToolTip).

Otherwise the Sound Engines have been rewritten largely and that too helps audibly.

For me all is a bit more difficult to judge because I am listening through all improvements at the same time, added to that my super-duper footers for the NOS1.

Notice that my current sig for W7 does not reflect my latest best choices (I just didn't update it), though it is fairly equal to the W8 settings. Only Clock Resolution I ended up for W7 is 0.5 and Q5=2. But since I later changed that for W8 to 1 and 3 respectively and I never went back to W7, that too may be a good setting for W7.

Peter

[stefanobilliani]

W8 . My impressions are good , quite good . We start with a new era in music through XXHE .

Great job . I may add that everything is working for the exception of Alt-m ; another problem in W8 ( also other versions ) is that the system is unable to engage " stop remaining services " , but I'll open a thread for that .

Regards

Stefano

[boleary]

Here are some first impressions:

1. 9Z9 (Peter's W8 settings except SFS @ 60)sounds better in W7 than W8. W8 sounds a bit more veiled to me.

2. In both W7 and W8, 9Z9 sounds best without the ASSI Rainbow Sugar Card (I didn't make that up!) It definitely puts a bit of a blanket on the sound.

3. 9Z9 in general is just a bit too fat in the mids resulting in less well defined vocals; though W7 sounds much more defined than W8.

4. 8e in W7, with Rainbow Sugar (the AFX-104 filtering card), continues to sound fabulous here.

[boleary]

Couple more observations I forgot to mention last night:

1. 9Z9 sounds very, very good. To me, it sounds much improved over 8-3a.

2. Turning on peak extension in 9z9 kills the sound. Guess that problem was solved--would love that tweak applied to 8e   .

3. Phase Alignment turned on sounds best here in 9z9. I used my W7, 8e, PA settings.

[manisandher]

Very early days here, but I'm really liking what I'm hearing. There seems to be more depth to the sound. I'm attributing this to simply more 'real' resolution, even with much higher SFS and Q settings than I normally have.

More thoughts later, but for now a real step up in SQ I think...

Mani.

[arvind]

W7.SQ is certainly clearer than the previous version. However I continue to get better SQ with PA on & XTweaks off.

Another jump towards better SQ. Great job Peter.

Regards,

Arvind

[boleary]

So I played with Q5 @1 this morning and vocals sounded very similar to what I like best about 8e. The base though, with 9z9, is much better and the sounds of the instruments in space were more defined and palpable. I was A-Bing Dave Brubeck, Take Five, and in 9z9 the first few measures, though soft, never sounded so live before. I briefly listened with Q5 @ 10 and, though it sounded incredibly smooth, it was less dynamic than Q5 @ 1.

A-Bingbetween 9Z9 and 8e it seemed a bit odd that volume levels were the same. I played Brubeck @ 22.5db, in both the volume seemed the same. I should have used the SPL meter but it wasn't readily handy.  I thought 8e would have to be played 3db louder because of using peak extension.

[PeterSt]

Hey Brian,

That is W7, right ?

Well, for me with W8 it is a sort of the other way around ... No problems anymore with too loud hence "too dynamic". Only hits on cymbals and other "fast" instruments incur for that now. But that is actually for the better IMO.
Of course now *that* starts to emphasize that it needs somewhat more to really get there. But that's a good thing too I think because now we can focus on something ...

Peter

[boleary]

Yes, W7.

[christoffe]

After readjusting my listening experiences with a CD-player for one week, I installed 09z-9b on the W7 PC. (Settings see sig)

This XXH release is the best ever.
The amazing sound of the cymbals are back.

Great Job Peter.

[Michel]

After readjusting my listening experiences with a CD-player for one week, I installed 09z-9b on the W7 PC. (Settings see sig)

This XXH release is the best ever.
The amazing sound of the cymbals are back.

Great Job Peter.

Agree. (w7 ultimate64bit)

[Tore]

Agree too! (W8)

As an audiophile i feel very lucky to be with Peter on his journey.

Thanks Peter!



Tore

[juanpmar]

Agree too! (W8)

As an audiophile i feel very lucky to be with Peter on his journey.

Thanks Peter!



Tore

Hi Tore,

Do you like it more with W8 than with W7?

After readjusting my listening experiences with a CD-player for one week, I installed 09z-9b on the W7 PC. (Settings see sig)

This XXH release is the best ever.
The amazing sound of the cymbals are back.

Great Job Peter.

Agree. (w7 ultimate64bit)

Michel hi and welcome, have you tested it also in W8?

Best regards,
Juan

[Michel]

Agree too! (W8)

As an audiophile i feel very lucky to be with Peter on his journey.

Thanks Peter!



Tore

Hi Tore,

Do you like it more with W8 than with W7?

After readjusting my listening experiences with a CD-player for one week, I installed 09z-9b on the W7 PC. (Settings see sig)

This XXH release is the best ever.
The amazing sound of the cymbals are back.

Great Job Peter.

Agree. (w7 ultimate64bit)

Michel hi and welcome, have you tested it also in W8?

Best regards,
Juan

Hello Juan.

Nope. Only w7. I wonder if i install w8 do i need a new activation?
I dont like w8 at all, but for te sake of SQ i do...

Best regards,
Michel

[juanpmar]

Nope. Only w7. I wonder if i install w8 do i need a new activation?
I dont like w8 at all, but for te sake of SQ i do...

Best regards,
Michel

Hi Michel,

You need to activate it again but you  have to pay only one time. Please read this: http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2131.0

If you find some problem with the activation ask here and we will be glad to help.

Best regards,
Juan

[Michel]

Nope. Only w7. I wonder if i install w8 do i need a new activation?
I dont like w8 at all, but for te sake of SQ i do...

Best regards,
Michel

Hi Michel,

You need to activate it again but you  have to pay only one time. Please read this: http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=2131.0

If you find some problem with the activation ask here and we will be glad to help.

Best regards,
Juan

Thx Juan.

I see most of you all have 16GB. I have 8 Gb and it sounds lovely. I also notice there is a big difference between memory types. Some cheap ass 1333mhz memory sounds very bad vs Corsair Vengeance 1866 mhz @1333 mhz.
I wonder if its worth to upgrade to 16gb?

kind regards,
Michel

[Tore]

Hi Juan!

I have been playing with 09z-9 on W7 from the day Peter released it.

Today you helped me with the Windows 7/8 Dual Boot so i have now compared W7 and W8. (with exactly the same settings, Peters W8 settings)

I prefer W8, the SQ is fantastic.


Tore

[juanpmar]

I see most of you all have 16GB. I have 8 Gb and it sounds lovely. I also notice there is a big difference between memory types. Some cheap ass 1333mhz memory sounds very bad vs Corsair Vengeance 1866 mhz @1333 mhz.
I wonder if its worth to upgrade to 16gb?

Hi Michel,

12Gb is enough, even 8Gb works also and 16Gb seems to be the maximun you´ll need and I personally would recommend it. I remember reading about it a few days ago in a post from Peter. About the speed, not so sure but I guess that the faster the better.

Regards,
Juan

[juanpmar]

Hi Juan!

I have been playing with 09z-9 on W7 from the day Peter released it.

Today you helped me with the Windows 7/8 Dual Boot so i have now compared W7 and W8. (with exactly the same settings, Peters W8 settings)

I prefer W8, the SQ is fantastic.


Tore

That´s ok Tore, if you make some findings about settings for better SQ let us know.

Best regards,
Juan

[Robert]

09-z9b sounding very good although havn't tried different settings yet due to M2Tech Hiface failure(I knocked it and damaged the USB plug to board connection).
Now have the Hiface Evo due to big discount($275Au) from Australian retailer "Wicked Digital". This was a huge improvement in sound, being separately powered over the Hiface.

Robert      

[boleary]

Hey Nick - Well what can I say? - on this occasion I have to completely disagree with you but it may point to some difference between our systems that needs further investigation.

I started at Q5=2 and clock=0.5 and the sound is lively and dynamic. So I set Q5=10 and clock=1 - wow what a difference the sound suddenly sounded much more analogue and easy to listen to. But for me it was not an improvement the sound was flattened and the problems "brushed over" (I was listening to a very poor Tony Allen recording). Actually I preferred to listen to it dynamic warts and all and not "brushed over".

 Now SFS makes very little difference to SQ (but like PA it used to make a significant difference).

Well that's the way I hear it anyway.

Cheers

Paul

Paul hi,

It's very interesting that your experience is so different. If I understand what Peter has done with Q5 (from the tool tips) I think that tuning settings might become much more PC specific to motherboards processors and disk types etc. I'm thinking that different PCs may have carateristic periods for operations like memory access, processor scheduling and so on. If Peters Q5 setting is helping to break these characteristic frequencies up and different PC do have specific periods then could be that we will hear very different things on different PCs.

 To explain more about what I'm hearing its actually very like your system, it just sounds so much more real palpable and dynamic, with a much sweeter to end. There real energy in performance with the whole spectrum contributing in a consistent way to the sound.

Might it be that your PC already has a "nice" spread of internal transaction frequencies, so sound is already [extremely  ] good ?

It would be interesting if Mani and Brian could try the settings I posted above as they have the same mobo and processor and this might give some indication of whether or not we are getting to the point of more PC specific settings now.

Perhaps Peter might comment on this ?

Best Nick.

So I've spent the last week listening exclusively to W7, 9z9, in order to establish some kind of baseline for comparisons. Yesterday I had an opportunity for an extended listening session and here are a few impressions:

1. Regarding Q5 I have to agree with Paul's description above (I assume, Paul, your tests were with W7.) I found my most pleasing, dynamic, settings with a Q5 of 2 and a clock res of .5. In general, it seems that increasing the clock res presents a brighter sound while increasing Q5 does the opposite: the sound becomes rounder or more analogue like and, if you keep the volume the same, less dynamic feeling. However, I found I could crank the volume to unbelievable levels with the higher Q5 and the music sounded awesome. If I set my system up outdoors and wanted to play as loud as possible I wolud use Nicks settings, but at home in my listening room my preference is the somewhat lower volume with the lower Q5.

2. SFS really makes a significant though more subtle difference here. My preference is around 50 or 60. With my current settings I can't go below 30. Nick what settings were you using when you managed a really low SFS?

3. Like Juan said in his beautiful post about 9Z9 and W8, volume is something to really pay attention to. With peak extension off, 9Z9 feels roughly similar dialed down 3db to what I was used to with version 8e. However, I find that I'm bumping up the volume 1.5 db in 9Z9--not sure if that is a good or a bad thing.

4. After listening for several hours yesterday I rebooted into W8, which sounded very good and smooth but a bit less dynamic than W7. Not sure why this is so. Anyone know if having music on one side of a partition and OS on the other side has a bad effect on SQ? All of my efforts with a playback drive and/or having music stored on an external drive changed SQ here for the worse.

5. Lastly, yesterday I was ready to announce that I was changing my signature because 9Z9 is best of all.....then I played a few of my favorite vocals with 8e. After adjusting volume to account for PE being on, it seems to still have some magic too so I'm just going to add a 9Z9 settings to my signature. Maybe I'm just a little slow. 

[PeterSt]

4. After listening for several hours yesterday I rebooted into W8, which sounded very good and smooth but a bit less dynamic than W7. Not sure why this is so.

Hahaha, and then to think I am so, So, SOO glad I was able to get those stupid too high dynamics out of the way !

Regards,
Peter

[PeterSt]

Okay, maybe I can have an impression as well ...

For the last 3-4 weeks or so I'm actually using Windows 8 exclusively. I have no real urge anymore to stop using it, and so I use it all the time. But not really ...

Sometimes it happens that I feel it is too much of a hassle to switch the few things I need to switch (Windows 8 is on another PC than my ever used Windows 7 one) and then I think "what the heck, it should be as good, and maybe it is nice to compare again". So I just let it go. Maybe a week ago this happened for the first time.
And so here a a few "looking from the other angle" impressions :

- Bass is more in Windows 7.
Yes it is. But I don't feel it is more accurate.

- Sound is completely gray (grey for this side of the Atlantic).
Yup, this is the most occurring. But keep in mind : you'll only observe this when listening for a longer subsequent time to Windows 8. At least with me this is so.

- Can't find normal W7 settings.
Meaning : I am so annoyed by the W7 sound - which is so sooo much less accurate by now - that I can do what I want, but no good setting can be found.

Please notice : This all can theoretically be because 0.9z-9b has gone worse for W7, but I don't believe that. I don't, because I used the same 0.9z-9b I used before outside of W8. It all seems a matter of superfast getting used to the W8 sound, now it is listenable anyway.

At this moment I still can't say that Windows 8 is better in all its aspects (the highs seem still a tad too less colored (coloured ) but the importance comes from W7 just went unlistenable - in comparison !

So fast we get used to things.

Btw, at least for Windows 7 it seems so that now Q1 is the more important SQ dial. Not the SFS. Watch out here, because we tend to set Q1 higher with the higher SFS, which at least works the other way around : with the lower SFS we *have* to lower Q1 or otherwise it doesn't work. But IMO the real influencing thing now is Q1 itself. IOW, set the SFS to the higher setting (I use 120) but set Q1 to 7 (xQ1 to 1) to compare against a 30x10 which is my other setting.
And you know what ? Me knowing how Q5 works (when set to other than 0 of course) this is even very logical ...

Peter

[boleary]

Here are some first impressions:

1. 9Z9 (Peter's W8 settings except SFS @ 60)sounds better in W7 than W8. W8 sounds a bit more veiled to me.

2. In both W7 and W8, 9Z9 sounds best without the ASSI Rainbow Sugar Card (I didn't make that up!) It definitely puts a bit of a blanket on the sound.

3. 9Z9 in general is just a bit too fat in the mids resulting in less well defined vocals; though W7 sounds much more defined than W8.

4. 8e in W7, with Rainbow Sugar (the AFX-104 filtering card), continues to sound fabulous here.

Regarding 1 and 3 above, well, they are wrong. After making some adjustments to Peters W8, 9Z9 settings I think I finally dialed in W8 to where I am getting "the best sound ever."

The three things that took away the impression of fat mids and vieled or not articulate enough vocals were setting Q5 to 2, setting the clock res to 2.5, SFS to 60 and copying my entire music directory to the W8 partition. This last adjustment seems to have had the biggest impact. (If anyone wants to indulge me, I'd appreciate it if you would copy/paste a track to your C drive (or whatever drive you have XX installed on) and compare the sound to whatever playback drive you currently use. Results could be reported in the playback drive thread.)

In my setup 9Z9 sounded "grey" in W8 until I copied some music to the C drive, which is where it is played from in my W7 setup. As soon as I did that W8 came alive here. Though I wouldn't describe my W7 sound as grey at all, now it doesn't sound as pleasing or musical as W8. Guess I'll have to switch over to the W8 SQ thread for further reporting. 

One other way of saying this is that the high frequency sound of 8e that I "crave" is now achieved in 9Z9 W8, but in a much more refined and integrated way. Yesterday I played Anita O'Day, Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered in W7, 8e and though the vocal sounds incredible the accompanying piano sounds fake or like a toy. In W8, 9z9 that same piano sounds very, very real--like it too is in the room with Anita.

So awesome. Thanks Peter....sorry for being a bit slow.

[boleary]

2. In both W7 and W8, 9Z9 sounds best without the ASSI Rainbow Sugar Card (I didn't make that up!) It definitely puts a bit of a blanket on the sound.

Okay in the future I'll spare you folks my foolishness of posting first impressions cause 9Z9 has shown, over time, that they are a bit "premature" to post. 

I know Peter has been warning all about the unreliability of the ASSI Card but I realized last night that all my testing with W8, with the settings below, has been with the ASSI card installed. I thought I had taken it out! Anyway, the sound with W8, 9Z9 and the ASSI card in is just remarkably good. I removed it and there was just no comparison--the sound stage with the card out isn't nearly as precise and there is just a lot more hash without the card. So, for now, it's staying in here. 

[pedal]

Okay in the future I'll spare you folks my foolishness of posting first impressions cause 9Z9 has shown, over time, that they are a bit "premature" to post. 

OK; Say Ave Peter three times and renew your license, and your sins will  be forgiven.

[Robert]

Don't worry we are all guilty of being premature.

I tried the Q settings Q1=7 and xQ1 =1. Yes was quite an improvement in sound, I can't go back to 30 and 10. Still using W7 and SFS 120.

I havn't had a moment to experiment with settings so have relied on others.

I'm reluctant to change to W8 yet. If under XXhighend's command W8 is working with the W7's shell why should we? But there must be other things at play here outside or within W8 that influence the sound. Such a complex web this seems to be.

[PeterSt]

If under XXhighend's command W8 is working with the W7's shell why should we?

Or why shouldn't we ?

But there must be other things at play here outside or within W8 that influence the sound.

I think you tried to put this as a negative. This is okay because, of course, I have been saying such things myself all the time. But, this was when it didn't sound right. Today I am merely glad to say that W8 is to my expectations, looking at the behavior of the OS (remember I was disappointed because it didn't work out while it should be so good).

By now I'd say that anyone who did not try Windows 8 yet, doesn't know what he is missing. This is a bit of Dutch I'm afraid, but I mean to say that you miss out.
It is just another dimension - really ...

Regards,
Peter

[phantomax]

It is just another dimension

Sonic Hyperspace I'd say, Peter (even with a low-medium equipment).

Regards

Maxi

[christoffe]

It is just another dimension - really ...

Regards,
Peter

Yes, there are details never heard before.

Best SQ ever heard on my system.

Joachim