Latency settings

[pedal]

Dear,

After successful install of W8 I am keen on tweaking my XX to the max. The first thing is to get the latency correct. Right?

From the Phasure USB Audio Control Panel, I set the USB Buffer Size = 16ms. Also I can read from here that latency is 3840 Samples.

But when returning to setting area ("output") in XX, the top 2 choices are 3072 or 4096 samples. But no 3840.
-What to do to have matching values?


PS: After some fiddling around with Q-settings, the Phasure USB Audio Control Panel shows latency of 3528 Samples. How to land on one of the values in the settings menu of XX? (4096, 3072, 2048, etc)?

[pedal]

O Boy!

I don't really know what happened here tonight. Fiddling around with the settings was probably to the worse.

Nevertheless, after a couple of hours "something" kicked in big time. The SQ is very transparent, clean, tight and dynamic. Never had such dynamics before. I cant hear any downside, though. It is just sooo pure and resolved, with new details heard in the music and scary dynamics.

Makes my ribbon/dynamic loudspeaker system sound like a well made horn system.

Me like W8!

PS: Forgot to tell I'm listening at much louder levels than usual. Several dB's more. However I do it because I CAN play louder without strain or usual fatigue. The latest XX on W8 is probably that more clean sounding.

[PeterSt]

So, no more advice needed eh ?

Those two buffer settings (XXHighEnd and Driver Control Panel) are not related at all. The product of Q1 x xQ1 x Device Buffer Size is though, with no real advice on how to set that in relation to what you see in the Driver Control Panel. So, it matters, but how is to find out by you (or us all). Generally, people (including me) dial Q1 etc. somewhat, and now and then change the Control Panel setting. I guess we should be less careless about that because there will be a "best setting" somewhere. Well, maybe you just found that ?

Kind regards,
Peter

[pedal]

Hello again,

I am back in the hot spot. After some hours sleep and replacing alcohol with caffeine, I am clean and sober with fresh ears, curious to hear if the magic still remains.

And it does!

W8 + 09z-9b is superior to W7 + earlier versions. The new sound is cleaner, like removing a veil between the recording and the listener. More direct, dynamic and detailed.  Also tonally I notice less coloration in the treble. Having the benefit of active cross overs in my system, sometimes with certain records, I feel like changing the treble level +/- 1dB. But now I can play them all with same level. So clearly a coloration has been removed with W8, which sounds more homogenic, but without homogenizing the music! In my experience the benefit of more homogenic sound is that you can play louder without fatigue, which is the case with W8-XX now.

OK, back to the intention of this thread: My settings.

First I started with copying PeterSt settings. Then I changed a little bit. Then I changed more settings and got lost in the process.* Haha.
In the end I got frustrated about the Q-settings, so I changed to KS-mode: NORMAL, bypassing the whole “Q-engine”. Right?

Never the less I find the SQ more or less constant. The W8 seems to be quite “robust” in this matter.
Maybe, maybe, I could wish for a tad more “smoothness”, but I am not sure. I love the “honesty” of the present W8 sound.

-This comes from many hours of all kinds of recordings; From Deep Purple to Bob James Trio, from Redbook to 24/192.

But if I could wish for something (apart from being able to play the piano) it is a beginners guide to the XX settings, explaining the Dummy (me) how the settings works basically. Pleeeeeeeze


*PS: The important settings are unchanged, like Minimize OS, PeakExtendON, ClockRes=1ms and SFS=100MB.

[PeterSt]

so I changed to KS-mode: NORMAL, bypassing the whole “Q-engine”. Right?

Ok, laugh now, because now I myself need that beginners guide. Because you know what ? I really don't know anymore what Normal exactly implies. IIRC it is only related to how the Device Buffer Size relates to Q1 (and the other two) which for Normal is no real relation. This, while Adaptive makes Q1 = 1 (and xQ1 = 1) equal to the Device Buffer Size.

If that is so, I better remove Normal because it would be a redundant setting. Too bad for you. Hahaha.
No, I should (re)find out what Normal actually does.

[boleary]

Hey Pedal, you may notice that Peter's signature makes no mention of Peak Extension. You may want to take a listen with it off, but you have to remember to lower volume by 3db. My sound took a big leap forward when I turned it off.

[pedal]

Just played Anne Sophie Mutter - Carmen Fantasia (HDTRACKS 2488). It was so good I had to replay the whole album one more time. Every track is a sonic beauty, like the music is. This record used to have some edges here and there, but not anymore. I played it at full volume and enjoyed every second of it. Startling realism.

This is WITH PeakExtend. Will try some albums without PE later on. Whatever settings I have (messed up) I can definitely live with this.

Great work Peter! 

[pedal]

Hey Pedal, you may notice that Peter's signature makes no mention of Peak Extension. You may want to take a listen with it off, but you have to remember to lower volume by 3db. My sound took a big leap forward when I turned it off.

Ok, took a quick check with one track: Blues At Sunrise from Albert King Stevie Ray Vaughan (HDTRACKS v2 24192).

WITH PeakExtension: Somewhat lighter, faster, more snappy.
WITHOUT PeakExtension: More earthy, slightly darker. Not as "clear", though...
(Yes, I corrected the 3dB).

Frankly, I preferred WITH PE. But of course gotta check more tracks and listen more closely. (This recording isn't the most demanding in the first place).

[pedal]

PEAK EXTENSION:

Tried also a couple of tracks from Anders Widmark CD "Carmen" . A Swedish jazz beauty from 2001. Highly recommended both for music and SQ. [Check it out on your HD, PeterSt!]

WITH PE: Slightly brighter, more focus on the right hand keys.

WITHOUT PE: More woody tone and body to the piano. Slightly more impact on the big drums. Also slightly more punch to the lower notes on the big bass in the opening track. Bigger space (acoustics). I think for this album it's better without PE.

-------------

I think I get the difference with/without PE. Will continue trying this out on a longer term. -Play WITHOUT for an extended period, and then try to switch back and see what happens.
In my main system, with the NOS1, I mainly play good sounding recordings, mostly acoustic music. The compressed pop/rock I play mainly on an iPod in the car, etc. -So I really don't need the PE feature.

[PeterSt]

Silly questions pedal :

We are all at work here. How come you are not ?

okok

I recall that you needed a new Activation Code, but I didn't see a thing of it passing by. So, are you now telling that this is all without Activation, or what ?

haha

[pedal]

Thankfully I was able to fit a couple of days off to work on my sound system.

 Connected my 2 bass towers again (7 pcs 12" each). Those you saw but never heard. I have run my system as 2-way for a while, but are now back in 3-way mode. Ohhh how nice it is to feel the floor vibrating again!

I did get my code! You even refunded, in spite I said you should keep it. Remember?

XX works fine. Can play for hours.  The top text in red and "minimize OS" works fine. (But struggling with unattended playback, though).

:-)

[boleary]

[quoteJust played Anne Sophie Mutter - Carmen Fantasia (HDTRACKS 2488). It was so good I had to replay the whole album one more time][/quote]

This is on of my all time favorite classical cd's. Wanna hear a "woody" violin? Give it a listen; track 1 is my favorite. My version is redbook. Anyone ever compared the difference between redbook ad HD versions?

[PeterSt]

I did get my code! You even refunded, in spite I said you should keep it. Remember?

Ah, of course !

[pedal]

Anyone ever compared the difference between redbook ad HD versions?

This was recorded in 1993, IIRC, at 44.1/24bit resolution utilizing DG proprietary "4D" technology. -Traditional PCM technology but with the A/D converters placed on the stage, next to each microphone. So, no long runs of analogue cables, then.

I'll take a fresh listen between Red Book and download to see if the 24 vs. 16 bit makes a difference.

The recording is close-mic'ed. But apart from this the SQ is stunning, when replayed through XX/W8!
If you search various forums you find several dissatisfied listeners complaining about hard/edgy sound. But - HEY - they don't have the playback technology which WE have ;-)

[boleary]

I'll take a fresh listen between Red Book and download to see if the 24 vs. 16 bit makes a difference.

The recording is close-mic'ed. But apart from this the SQ is stunning, when replayed through XX/W8!
If you search various forums you find several dissatisfied listeners complaining about hard/edgy sound. But - HEY - they don't have the playback technology which WE have ;-)

Not hard and edgy here. Very interested in your impression of redbook v HD. Thanks!

[pedal]

I have just updated my signature to present settings. My intention was to investigate further into the settings, but - sorry - I am not able to discipline myself enough for such *boring* activities.

Right now I am on a joy ride. -Playing Deep Purple/In RockMACHINE HEAD (2496/DVDA) at +100dB and it is absolutely kickass! I always found this recording completely dull and boring. Not only because the best tracks was performed better live on Made In Japan, but also because the recording was so dull and dark sounding.

But NOW, oh boy, it is a completely different  beast. Ian Paice' drum kit hits me like a tommy gun. Treble is still dull (probably due to poor recording equipment, overdubs and 1st generation Dolby noise reduction) but now the over all SQ is much better than before, and it is easier to adopt to (ignore) the dullness.

On the other side I wont say the current setup is a one trick pony. Well recorded jazz and acoustic music sounds as natural as ever. Jimmy Cobb Quartet - Jazz in the Key of Blue (HDTRACKS 2496) has some wonderful trumpet solos. Try track 6/I Had the Craziest Dream: It gives me the most realistic and dynamic REAL trumpet sound I have heard, ever, from a stereo.

UPDATE:
After reading PeterSt advice on Q5 settings, I lowered the clock resolution from 1ms to 0,5ms. Rather minor difference, the latter perhaps slightly more transparent/lighter in character. Then I tried 0.5ms/Q5=5 which certainly was slightly more relaxed and laidback than 1ms/Q5=3. Which one to prefer?  Hmmm, not easy to say. Gotta play more, but running out of time. Wife is complaining. Sun is shinning and better take the family to the beach. More later!

[AlainGr]

Hi Pedal,

You express things as I feel them !

I thank all of those who take the time to decrypt the mysteries of audio and allow us to appreciate such a spirit touching art !

Regards,

Alain

[PeterSt]

Pedal ... I know ... I hardly dare to propose it, but ...

Try the normal Redbook version of In Rock.
I forgot exactly how or what, but at least Machine Head was a revelation to me a few weeks back, and that is the dullest one. It wasn't at all anymore ...

Peter (always On the Beach, haha, but quite necessary with the continuous 30++ of the last days)

[pedal]

Hehe, Peter, I know your skepticism about Hi-rez. In which I do agree/disagree  LOL

Any how you are perfectly right,it WAS Machine Head which I was listening to this morning (being the only DP hi-rez title I own.) I'll try In Rock later on, too.

---------

PUZZLE
With KS mode = Normal, I should not be able to hear any difference with the various Q-settings, right? But I do! How can this be?

[PeterSt]

Pedal, not correct. I told you in another post a few days back. Q1 etc. just works there too. Only the base of it all can be different (which I promised to sort out which of course I did not).

So what you observe is correct and no mistery.
Plus Placeboes debunked of course.

Peter

PS: Nice Deep Purple fan you are ! Let (the) Lord not read this ...

[pedal]

Hi Pedal,

You express things as I feel them !

I thank all of those who take the time to decrypt the mysteries of audio and allow us to appreciate such a spirit touching art !

Regards,

Alain

Thanks Alain! The XX community is certainly a special breed with so much *sharing* and positivity from the many members.

-I think it reflects the unique spirit, contribution and efforts by it's founder; PeterSt.