USB Cables... again

[christoffe]

Ok Joachim. Thank you !

Can you now please describe the changes in sound with all the detail you can come up with ?

Thank you again,
Peter

Hi Peter,

I'm not finished with all of my reference recordings (99% is Jazz),
but the first impressions are:

Sound is much more analog, MUCH less harshness of the cymbals, less reverberation (especially the mids - piano) in my room, more definition (resolution) in the mids and and highs (delicacy), bass is a little bit more accentuated and tighter,  soundstage presentation improved, resinous of violins improved with more body of the instrument.

This cable is worth any cent/pence.

kind regards

Joachim

[Edit]: The harshness in the highs was emphasized by a  new  poweramp (with a DC offset protection),  which I’m using to omit the preamp now.

[CoenP]

I made a quick and (very) dirty "data only" cable from an existing €1,- one very similar to the one i use normally. i cut the shield and red 5Volt wire at the DAC side of the cable and pried out and cut the red cable on the PC side leaving the shield connected.

Iow:
Shield connected at pc side only
Power line cut at both sides not being able to pick up or transfer noise.

I will report my findings when i have a little more listening time on this cable. I also have a concern for esd safety that I have to reason out.


Regards, coen

[Stanray]

Hi Coen,

I'm very interested in your findings, as this is exactly wat I was planning to do.

I was very sceptically of USB-cable influence on SQ, until last weekend when I compared a 1 euro cable with a "fancy" 10 euro cable and I perceived differences. The latter giving a better imaging (focus).

Regards,
Stanley

[juanpmar]

Joachim, would be great if you could make a cheap cable like Coen´s to compare it with your YFS USB REFERENCE - DATA ONLY CABLE

Regards,
Juan

[boleary]

Woke up this morning a very happy camper: yesterday I received my Data-Only V4, one step down from the reference cable Joachim posted about ($265 for a 2m cable), and, after 5 hours of listening yesterday, I couldn't wait to post about it this morning. Was very surprised to see Joachim beat me to it!

Anyway, after reading Mani's initial post I had to give a data-only cable a try. Not really knowing up from down with electronics I couldn't go the Cohen route so, given the 30 day in home trial I figured it was worth a try with the "Your Final System Cable." I didn't order the reference cable cause I just wanted to hear a cable without a power leg and both the reference and the one I purchased appear to be very similar: both use silver plated copper.

Anyway, the change in sound is very substantial. Though I agree with most of what Mani and Joachim have said about a data only cable, one thing Mani said I didn't experience: here, with the data-only cable, the bass is now less deep but far more natural. I used Eva Cassidy's version of Fever whose intro is bass heavy. A/B-ing with the new cable was a revelation regarding a natural sounding bass. Moreover, for the first time, I was able to play the entire song at ear splitting levels. In the past, once Eva started singing this song I generally switched to a different track or turned down the volume to an unsatisfying level because of the "clangyness" (harshness) of the upper mids. Suddenly that "clangyness" was completely gone. Everything I played last night was a new revelation of natural sounding music. The change this cable has made here is another step in the direction that began with disconnecting the optical drive and was followed by removing the front panel and all associated wiring from the PC, swapping the Corsair PS for the Seasonic, and changing from the ASUS to the ASrock MB. The change is equal to what I experienced with swapping mb's.

[PeterSt]

Joachim and Brian,

Both your posts are equally worth while I think, and then I mean that this seems to lead to a *better* SQ after all.
But, I have to say that your description Brian, beats Joachim a little , were it for the more somewhat technical description which matches better my idea about when USB improves the SQ (compare with Mani's description for fun ).

But now we're in this stage anyway, what about those who (maybe in the far back) just tried to not use the power connection ?
And so, now I mean : what about cutting that from the 1$ cable ? I am pretty sure this by itself has been done before, but I have the idea that this was before the USB3 (NOS1 connection) era.

One more -at least for myself important- notice :
Once it really can be proven that not using the power connection is for the better, which would need to include my own measurement - and no matter it would need a $300 cable, it would even be *logic* that this is for the better.
Hey Nick, you will get that, right ?

Regards and thanks,
Peter

[boleary]

Thanks Peter. I failed to mention that the cable is, in fact, connected to a MB USB3 port. Kevin O'Brien, the seller, says that the cable needs a hundred hours to burn in. Though initially the sound was a bit congested, after several hours it really opened up. I cannot imagine it getting much better, but the system will be left on 24/7 for the next four days!

[PeterSt]

I also have a concern for esd safety that I have to reason out.

I HAVE to add that Coen is concerned for good reason;

When the power wires are not used, the ESD safety protection on the USB interface will have vanished. So please notice that this (through normal USB cables) connection has been explicitly applied by me and that I found this more important than even ever trying without and possibly see better (noise) results. But low and behold and see how things come together theough a couple of posts :

Coen had is ESD protection blown once. Reason : some shortcut at the amplifier side. Only two weeks back there was another case of this, with the exact same reason.
And while Joachim is in this topic anyway : Joachim, you too experienced similar (well, reason unknown) but that was with the old NOS1 (non-USB) interface. All I can add to this that I still have a couple of emails about again amplifier "strangenesses" which blew the fuses in the NOS1, right ?

Now guys, please don't ask me where the currents will all flow to -and without blowing fuses first - when you eliminate the ESD protection. So know what you are doing, and when things turn out badly it can really imply a lot of $$$ to repair it.

Finally, a post like this feels a bit strange to myself, because I am all in for bette SQ again and when I finally seem to see it can happen through different means of USB apliance now I need to seriously warn you ? So I'm afraid Yes.
This already now (USB power out) counts for disconnecting/connecting the USB cable.

Peter

[PeterSt]

I cannot imagine it getting much better, but the system will be left on 24/7 for the next four days!

Brian, if breaking in really is in order, then open the NOS1 Driver Control Panel and let that be when you're out or sleeping etc. Putting it to the Taskbar is OK.
This way USB streaming will be active all the time, which is the same as playing.

Regards,
Peter

[CoenP]

Anyway, the change in sound is very substantial. Though I agree with most of what Mani and Joachim have said about a data only cable, one thing Mani said I didn't experience: here, with the data-only cable, the bass is now less deep but far more natural. I used Eva Cassidy's version of Fever whose intro is bass heavy. A/B-ing with the new cable was a revelation regarding a natural sounding bass. Moreover, for the first time, I was able to play the entire song at ear splitting levels.

A very quick first impression of my cable tweak: this does NOT work.
Like Boleary the whole soundstage sounded a lot "lighter", but with a pinched midrange and cymbals piercing needles in my ear. Gone was the magic sound i was experiencing before. Not good.

knowing myself audiowise: there is no cure for a bad first impression.

With the old cable much more wood and chestiness in voices and instruments. You can hear a piano is a wood and metal instrument. The music is really captivating. Well no punishment to go back.

This is all too quick in my view. This needs a second chance.

So I reconnected the screen at the DAC side. Well this sounds ok now, lighter but agreable. I will dive into the sound a little deeper tonigt.

Probably there will be some break-in involved so no definite conclusions for now.

Regards, coen

[boleary]

Brian, if breaking in really is in order, then open the NOS1 Driver Control Panel and let that be when you're out or sleeping etc. Putting it to the Taskbar is OK.
This way USB streaming will be active all the time, which is the same as playing.

Thanks Peter, won't put more wear on my tubes!

[christoffe]

I also have a concern for esd safety that I have to reason out.

I HAVE to add that Coen is concerned for good reason;

Coen had is ESD protection blown once. Reason : some shortcut at the amplifier side. Only two weeks back there was another case of this, with the exact same reason.
And while Joachim is in this topic anyway : Joachim, you too experienced similar (well, reason unknown) but that was with the old NOS1 (non-USB) interface. All I can add to this that I still have a couple of emails about again amplifier "strangenesses" which blew the fuses in the NOS1, right ?

Now guys, please don't ask me where the currents will all flow to -and without blowing fuses first - when you eliminate the ESD protection. So know what you are doing, and when things turn out badly it can really imply a lot of $$$ to repair it.

Peter

Peter,

Over the time the Swedish USB2 cable causes strange readings at the NOS1 VU meters and blown fuses for 2 times, and initiated some shutdowns of the new poweramp (with a very fast reacting DCC offset protection) too, and so I went back to a shelf cable. The shelf cable shows no electrical anomalies at the VU meters (after a PC closing down) anymore (and no power amp shutdowns since then) and the SQ was nearly identical to the previous Swedish cable.

After reading  Brians post about the YFS cable …………… . At present I hear that the acoustic bass (from Brian Bromberg) has a smaller body, less low resonances, but very pristine (nearly identical to Brians impression). The definition of the music improved a lot, more fine details.

http://www.amazon.com/Wood-Brian-Bromberg/dp/B000FQJPBO/ref=ntt_mus_ep_dpi_5

[CoenP]

Hi,

About ESD safety: I see no reason for immediate concern after studying the esd protection chips datasheet.

The chip povides esd protection on +,- and 5v lines. So even when you cut the 5V wire on the cable, the NOS1 is still protected against esd on the 5V pin (and of course on the other pins) of the USB receptable via the traces of the USB board.


Still:

The matter of unexpected currents over the 5V line remains and it is not known what happens to these currents when the 5V wire on the cable is cut.
Please be aware that this no-powerline approach may backfire one day.

Regards, coen

[christoffe]

Joachim, would be great if you could make a cheap cable like Coen´s to compare it with your YFS USB REFERENCE - DATA ONLY CABLE

Regards,
Juan

Hello Juan,

sorry, I do have some skills in gardening and  assembling rough mechanical parts, but not ............. .

Kevin from YFS gave me the advise to buy the reference cable, because .............. .

I'm not quite sure how to proceed after Coen's remarks in his last post. What can happen. Blown fuses "only" or other severe damages (chips)?

kind regards

Joachim

[CoenP]

I my case with connected shield and powerline, the esd chip was blown. Iow the 5V protection was short circuit to ground. Somehow a current from the pc to the NOS1 ground was created. Cause onknown. At first I thought about the pc, but it was more likely that the nos1 amplifier had something to do with it. So far i did not investigate this any further. I have the habit of disconnecting the NOS1 when i do something to either the pc or amp.

Regards, Coen

P.s you need special equipment and some precision skills to repair the board.