Windows 8.1

[juanpmar]

Windows 8.1 is here. I updated the PC that I use for work and it looks not only nicer but also faster. I personally don´t have any update in my Music PC and it seems that to install W8.1 the other updates are needed. I wonder if anyone has tested it already in the Music PC with XXHighEnd.

Juan

[christoffe]

Hi Juan,

The present W8 for XXH has the W7 shell, and an update to W8.1 might/will fail.
I do believe that we need a clean installation of W8, installing the update to W8.1 and then following the route with the W7 shell again. I think Peter is working on this already.

Joachim

[juanpmar]

Thanks Joachim, yes I am using too the W7 shell, the problem I see is whether we need to install the updates previously to install W8.1 or not and if the updates would affect the SQ.
I think W8.1 has more to do with Internet and apps than with Windows internal changes, excepting perhaps that the Start is now on the desktop. On the other hand, with W8.1 the Desktop Pc that I use for work seems to run faster in general, the same as a laptop in which I also installed W8.1, perhaps there are also some other changes in the OS.

Juan

[AlainGr]

Hi Juan,

I know a technician that told me W8 does not seem to work as fast as W7. While W8 boots faster, it looks as if it processes a little slower.

As for 8.1... I have the feeling it will be a PITA, since we all have seen Peter struggling to "extract" the best of w8.

Another struggle in sight...

Regards,

Alain 

[christoffe]

the problem I see is whether we need to install the updates previously to install W8.1 or not and if the updates would affect the SQ.

Juan

Hi Juan,

I did not install any update for W8.
Did you experience any progress with the SQ later?

Joachim

[juanpmar]

As for 8.1... I have the feeling it will be a PITA, since we all have seen Peter struggling to "extract" the best of w8.

Another struggle in sight
Regards,

Alain 

You are right Alain, and this will happen every time Windows launches a new OS or an important update. That is the weakest and unstable part of a computer-based system. Well, let´s face it with optimism.

the problem I see is whether we need to install the updates previously to install W8.1 or not and if the updates would affect the SQ.

Juan

Hi Juan,

I did not install any update for W8.
Did you experience any progress with the SQ later?

Joachim

Joachim, I'm sorry, I think I haven´t expressed myself correctly, I have not installed any updates on my music pc, I've installed W8.1 only on my work pc and in a laptop that I don´t use either for music. Mines were observations based only on a pc while working and as I say it looks to run faster than with W8.

Regards,
Juan

[PeterSt]

I think Peter is working on this already.

Sorry, but not that I know of ...

[Diede]

Hi Juan,

I've been using W8.1 on my desktop for a couple of months now in preview version and I'm happy with it in terms of performance, in my experience a lot faster than W7.

I can confirm however that the W7 shell does not work in W8.1. When I installed it all I got was a black screen when I tried switching, and had to delete Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\Shell parameter just to get the normal W8.1 screens back.

However the same guy has developed another small program called startisback+ (http://www.startisback.com/) that he sells for 3USD for two PC's.

It works very well, but is not the same as the W7 shell, you can now actively switch between both, so the W8 shell is still active.
That is why I didn't install W8.1 on my audio PC, and as such can't comment on SQ.

Diede

[AlainGr]

Can't we ask MS to put out its version 13 already ? At least it would ensure that we have stability for the next 15 years

On the other hand, if v13 has support for odors, maybe XXHE will have to be deeply modified, with different nose schemes...

When is ADN specific XXHE scheduled for ? 

Alain

[PeterSt]

To be honest, I so many times have been wondering whether it could not be possible to make some sniffing device at the recording and a odeur spitting machine at my end. This is for movies though and maybe I came to the idea by being into cooking quite a lot and therefore watching such programs.

But for audio I don't see it really unless we like to able to get excited about the smell of a violin or piano (which both really smell nice with the proper oils applied). To me this seems distracting.

Peter (being half serious only)

[AlainGr]

[juanpmar]

Hi Juan,

I've been using W8.1 on my desktop for a couple of months now in preview version and I'm happy with it in terms of performance, in my experience a lot faster than W7.

I can confirm however that the W7 shell does not work in W8.1. When I installed it all I got was a black screen when I tried switching, and had to delete Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\Shell parameter just to get the normal W8.1 screens back.

However the same guy has developed another small program called startisback+ (http://www.startisback.com/) that he sells for 3USD for two PC's.

It works very well, but is not the same as the W7 shell, you can now actively switch between both, so the W8 shell is still active.
That is why I didn't install W8.1 on my audio PC, and as such can't comment on SQ.

Diede

Thanks Diede, we agree that W8 sounds better with the W7 shell but, would it be the same with W8.1?, maybe not. It seems that to install W8.1 it is mandatory to install previously other updates, at least the most important ones as can be read in the Windows 8 site:
"There are some updates you might need before you can install Windows 8.1. In most cases, the latest updates will be installed automatically using Windows Update."... (Prepare your PC - Get the critical and important updates: http://windows.microsoft.com/is-is/windows-8/update-from-windows-8-tutorial)

If it would not be mandatory I´d try W8.1 in the music pc even without the W7 shell to see how it sounds, but if I have to install the other updates I don´t feel secure doing it because then perhaps I might not be able to uninstall them. However, I remember reading from someone else (Alain?) that W8 sounds better, (or it was just different?), if it has the updates installed.

Juan

[AlainGr]

Hi Juan,

I did some test yes, but I also ran into problems - like unattended not working anymore in Minimized OS... So I finally came back to W8 plain vanilla...

Alain

[juanpmar]

I see, thanks Alain

Juan

[GerardA]

After installing W8.1 on my regular PC without any problem (only the ATI-drivers were not up to date so HDMI-output was underscanned)  I just updated the music-pc.
No problems, only a reboot needed for UAC.
Music sounds good in unattended.
I can not really compare since I'm experimenting with my amps...

Funny thing is the wallpaper on my regular PC gets the same as on the music PC, so I can read what's playing while writing this.
Must be because I use the same live-account-user.
That's something not so nice, you need a live-account to log in.
This was optional in 8, in 8.1 I think its mandatory, unless I did not keep my eyes open?

[PeterSt]

Funny thing is the wallpaper on my regular PC gets the same as on the music PC, so I can read what's playing while writing this.

Hi Gerard, can you elaborate a bit more on this one please ?
I can't understand it ...

Thanks !
Peter

[GerardA]

This is what I see on my regular non-music PC:

[PeterSt]

Yes, I understood that. But this doesn't look like "Desktop Services" shut off + Unattended ??

[GerardA]

And this is the next song playing:

[AlainGr]

Hi Gerard,

Did you do all the Windows updates in preparation for the upgrade to W8.1 or you did them selectively ?

And yes, it seems that the live account is now mandatory. I don't like this...

Regards,

Alain

[GerardA]

Only unattended, desktop services are on because I like to see what's playing.

[GerardA]

Alain,

I had updates on all the time because there is so much to be improved and I trust MS is doing their best now to do so.
(Like I trusted win8 would be better then W7  )

[AlainGr]

Ah ok... So I am not the only "rebel" around

And when you mean "unattended", does it also imply that the OS is minimized ? This was where I had problems playing unattended (Min OS)...

Alain

[GerardA]

Minimized OS still scares me!

[AlainGr]

Ah... Thanks Gerard I can understand. For me, it is the direct connection with the power amp that is a concern for me...

Alain

[juanpmar]

Gerard and Alain, it is not mandatory to have the live account activated to run W8.1 (nor W8), if you have it activated all your computers share the apps, pictures, etc but you can avoid to log in with your live account password when windows starts. Also if you have the live account activated and want to sync computers you have to be connected to internet, which is not good for SQ.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/microsoft-account-tutorial

Regards,
Juan

[Jud]

Please note that the Explorer 7 for Win 8 software Peter has kindly bundled with XXHE does not work with 8.1.  Tihiy, the author of that software, has got new software called StartisBack+ (version 1.01 at the moment) that does work with 8.1.  Only $3 US for a 2-pc license, so I purchased.

The old Explorer 7 for 8 software made for a nervous moment or two, because if you try to start the program after installing 8.1 the desktop goes blank, and there is no way to make 8.1 start up normally short of putting Windows in recovery mode, which is what I did.

The 8.1 upgrade also wiped out my ramdisks - one the playback disk, one the XXHE install disk - so I will need to re-do them and reinstall XXHE.  (This is using Primo Ramdisk, with the disks set to be persistent across shutdowns.)

[AlainGr]

Hi Jud,

Do you know if StartisBack+ removes the initial screen layer, as was doing Explorer 7 for Win 8 ?

Were you able to try Min OS and unattended ?

Thanks

Alain

[AlainGr]

Gerard and Alain, it is not mandatory to have the live account activated to run W8.1 (nor W8), if you have it activated all your computers share the apps, pictures, etc but you can avoid to log in with your live account password when windows starts. Also if you have the live account activated and want to sync computers you have to be connected to internet, which is not good for SQ.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/microsoft-account-tutorial

Regards,
Juan

Hi Juan,

I tried to avoid having to fill this (with my email account), but it kept on telling me it needed an email account... Looked everywhere but did not see anything like "No, local please" or something like that (as it was in W8)...

Regards,

Alain

[juanpmar]

Hi Alain,

Go to "Configuration" in the right side of the screen in the bottom, once it is open go to the bottom again where it says "Change the configuration of your PC" (this is a literal translation because I´m using it in Spanish), when you are there look for  "Accounts" and go to "Your Account" and there you have the option to sign for a Microsoft account or for a local account,  take this one. That´s it. It is not very easy to find it out how to do it and I guess that Microsoft wants everybody using their account to sell more apps, etc. that is also the sense of W8 that is to sync your computers and mobiles.
If you find a difficulty let me know.

Regards,
Juan

[AlainGr]

Hi Juan,

A little complication happened... I was able to minimize the OS yesterday, but had to leave. Now I am trying to reconstitute how this happened, because now I am stuck in Minimize OS, while XXHE is not available on the system anymore. I know that there is a hole in my description, because it's impossible that I could go in Min OS, but then have no trace of XXHE anymore since...

I will reinstall a backup and go again through the conversion process.

Alain

[juanpmar]

Sorry Alain, I can´t help, I don´t have 8.1 installed in my Music PC, maybe Peter...

Juan

[AlainGr]

Hi Juan,

No, no worry. I will certainly not disturb anyone on this Something went wrong and it is probable I did something I should not have...

To take it on the positive side: I will search harder to see if there is a way to get around that email thing

Regards,

Alain

[GerardA]

Juan,
Your description is right, but like Alain said you need to use the emailaccount initially.
Looks like they want to make competition to Google/Android.
I did not try to get my old account back but I hope it's not too much work.....
This morning my videocard made everything look double, no gain no pain...

[juanpmar]

Juan,
Your description is right, but like Alain said you need to use the emailaccount initially.

Yes, it looks that to sign with an email account is needed for W8 and W8.1 but not necessarily it has to be a Microsoft Account. I don´t see a problem doing it with a Local Account, other different thing is doing it with a Microsoft Account...Please take a look to this article, it has interesting opinions about it and other aspects of W8.1:

http://www.tweakguides.com/Windows81_3.html

Juan

[PeterSt]

Hi Alain,

Go to "Configuration" in the right side of the screen in the bottom, once it is open go to the bottom again where it says "Change the configuration of your PC" (this is a literal translation because I´m using it in Spanish), when you are there look for  "Accounts" and go to "Your Account" and there you have the option to sign for a Microsoft account or for a local account,  take this one. That´s it. It is not very easy to find it out how to do it and I guess that Microsoft wants everybody using their account to sell more apps, etc. that is also the sense of W8 that is to sync your computers and mobiles.
If you find a difficulty let me know.

Regards,
Juan

Hey Juan !

I bought a Surface ( Windows RT which is almost Windows 8 ) a couple of months ago, and this needs the same stupid Live Account (with password restrictions which makes you forget your password for sure) and I thought to apply your hints to it.

It worked !
Great thanks,
Peter

[juanpmar]

 

[AlainGr]

I did the conversion again from W8 to 8.1. This time, I deactivated all the series of choices that ask if you want to "activate" this and that. I even unplugged the network cable at that point.

Well it did not ask me for an email account this time

Alain

EDIT: I also did not do all the Windows Updates... I only used the KB 2871389. It is the update that prepares W8 for the conversion.
EDIT2: You will know you have not done that update (KB 2871389) when you don't see the possibility to update to W8.1 when you access the Windows Store.

[juanpmar]

Great Alain!, now we are waiting for your opinions about SQ in W8.1.

If I understood you well you had a plain vanilla W8, so it means that it is possible to install W8.1 without previous updates. Is that correct?

Juan

[juanpmar]

Ah! I see your EDIT, you wrote it while I was writing 

Juan

[AlainGr]

Hi Juan,

Well, almost Only one update is required for the conversion (the KB from my previous post), then restart the PC and access the Windows Store.

BUT****: Jud strongly suggests to uninstall Explorer 7 for 8. I would add to this "Bring back the W8 interface first through Explorer 7 for 8. I  before uninstalling it"... I would do this before converting W8 to W8.1. Not that it is absolutely necessary (I haven't test this), but it does not work with 8.1 anyway...

I presently am at the point where I can minimize OS and bring it back. I will install the NOS1 drivers, then go back in minimize OS and try to see how it works

When I "scr*p" a Windows version, it does not take long to restore it, but it's the almost 4GB of download for W8.1 that takes long... I wish there was an ISO W8.1 file that I could download and install at least on a DVD or a USB stick...

Alain

[PeterSt]

Alain, you can create an ISO from any download ?
(I'm sure you will find the tool for it)
The hardest part is to make it bootable without destroying 10 DVDs or so. But what was it ? yup, just looked it up : Windows7DownLoadTool (official MS product, free).

I think there's a post about this somewhere in the forum. But maybe not how to exactly use it. How to avoid 10 failed DVDs yes (and why do I think you participated there ?)

Peter

[PeterSt]

Re: Windows7/8 Dual Boot (etc.)

[AlainGr]

It's the other aspect of it that I am concerned about... Getting an official 8.1 version that will not bring problems... And be in French...

As for the bootable DVD... Maybe I have been lucky, at least for this. I have wasted a lot of CDs and DVDs in some other times though...

Alain

[PeterSt]

In French ... Shouldn't that just be the Pro version ?

[AlainGr]

Yes it's the pro version. I always buy the pro version since sometimes I would have to connect at the office (through VPN) and so I have to specify the domain...

Alain
EDIT: I would gladly change to English, at least it would make things so much easier when we communicate and I have screenshots...

[PeterSt]

Alain,

Maybe superfluously, but if you get yourself the Pro version in English, that can be changed to French;
I think it will still be so that when you buy whatever version in another language (also the Pro version I reckon) you can only upgrade to a version in the same language (no matter you can change that to another language later). Downside : the officialy language versions are always later (can be months).

I struggled for maybe 10 years after obtaining a Dutch version the first time. You just can't get rid of that (when you keep on upgrading).
I'm not sure whether you say this is your problem, but if so, yes I recognize that.

Regards,
Peter

[AlainGr]

Peter,

Exact... I was more at ease with English since programming involved only English programming. But circumstances changed this at home, so now I never looked back. But it is complicated when trying to translate with the correct words...

I don't know why I never thought at some point to switch back to English...

Alain

[juanpmar]

Alain, can´t you do this?: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-8/add-language-keyboard

Juan

[AlainGr]

Juan,

Thanks a lot ! I now am in traditional Chinese... Just joking haha

I am in English now ! Super !!!

Alain

[AlainGr]

Peter,

I also thank you, because even if sometimes I do not fully understand your artistic performance in English (......), I can see that you were suggesting the possibility to do this

Now I will try to have the music play with 8.1...

Regards,

Alain

[PeterSt]

[AlainGr]

I removed my previous post to write it again, since there was a few errors.

It is possible to use Min OS, but unattended mode will potentially give headaches to some users. "Potentially", because as we know it, what happens for an individual will not necessarily happen for another.

From Minimized OS and unattended...

When the music finishes and XXHE comes back, an error appears and is related to explorer.exe (it can't start correctly with the 0xc0000142 error).

I could post the screenshot but though I changed my W8.1 language from French to English, some messages still appears in French. The result is that explorer.exe does not load back, so no icons, no taskbar... I either press Minimize OS to go back in Normal OS mode (it restarts the system), or do a hard shutdown.

I also noticed that using "Start Is Back+" (StartIsBackPlus_setup) also seems to add this error under certain circumstances, but I am less sure about it. There was an update yesterday, but it still was behaving this way. Again this could be fine for someone else.

And remember to bring back the Explorer 8 screen and uninstall Explorer 7 for Win 8...

As for SQ, I will leave this to better pairs of ears than mines

Alain