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Author Topic: This is what can happen from a Windows Upgrade  (Read 6822 times)
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PeterSt
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« on: November 16, 2013, 12:35:22 pm »

From one OS to the other that is.

All,

I had a more complicated story here to lay out what all happened, but it is better to summarize what should be done to avoid anomalies by the upgraded OS.

After such upgrade, if you go to Control Panel - Programs and Features, you may see all the Driver Packages installed; They can be from your video card as a first, and from your MotherBoard drivers if you installed those previously. So, that all still looks to be nicely there, right ?
Well, it is not. Not at all;

What happens - at least at going from native Windows 8 to Windows 8.1, is that this "data" is still there, and the packages will undoubtedly still be installed as such (well, they just are), but that their resulting drivers are NOT active in your newly updated Operating System. This does not go unnoticed, and only to the trained eye it is visible. Or not and SQ is bad. Or delays are implied and not all XXHighEnd settings are possible to the ultimate (latency etc.).
But most easiest might be looking at your Display Adapter Driver through Device Manager and see that it is a "Generic Microsoft Device" which it hardly ever will or can be. So this is your indication, might you not completely trust this post.
And FYI : For me it was quite hard to proove that MoBo chipset, SATA and USB(3) Drivers were "just microsoft". I mean, you can only see when you (finally) succeeded.

What this comes down to is that you need to spend more time in upgrading these drivers than it ever took you to upgrade the OS;
You wil need to uninstall really everything that even the slightest smells like "drivers" (see Control Panel - Programs and Features). This means reboots in between, depending on the driver. Uninstall in the reverse sequence of installing (look at the Install dates and start with the newest).

Next you need to dig up all for Windows 8.1 (which with a very fair chance is different for some Drivers for 8.1 than native 8 !) and install all in the normal sequence again (start with the one you uninstalled latest).
Make explicit notice of INF "drivers" (which merely is info on how to install drivers) which for Windows 8.1 can be different from Windows 8. So, if you don't install this as the very first (this is chipset related), nothing will work out again.

All this took me over two hours (for the ASRock based XXHighEnd PC).

If you can digest what really is needed to let all work well, you'd see that the latter part (installing of MoBo etc. specific Drivers) is always in order after installing a fresh OS. But the real message about this is that you think all is OK after the Upgrade, while it definitely is not. Or let's say that at least things changed to what you intended with your original Driver Installs, which you obviously applied for a reason.
And, like in my case I just noticed things to be slow in a strange fashion and it is easy to think that W8.1 itself is the culprit (ok, in the end it is by means of its upgrade procedure). However, it just is simply those drivers not being active, which indeed is the most hard to check for.

I am not so sure whether these are all commonly known facts, but I did not know them. Yes, we do know that it might not be the best to Upgrade the OS and better have Fresh Installs. But that this would be a simple reason for it - no. And of course it is a plain bug (at least for this W8-W8.1 Upgrade) that the installed packages suggest all is fine.

I hope this helps someone, although it may imply a couple of unforseen hours to spend in a weekend.
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2013, 02:32:18 pm »

Thanks Peter for the time you have put into this! Given the difficulties you encountered I think I'll stay with native W8, unless there is a definitive consensus that SQ is better with 8.1 or Santa Clause leaves an 8.1 install disc by the PC.
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XX2.07/MB: ASRock Extreme 4M , i7-3930K @ 0.5GHz/ RAM-OS W10586/32 Gigs 1600 DDR3/ Clarixa usb cable  /Q1,3,4,5 = *14*/1/1/*1* / *Q1Factor = 1* / Peak Extension: Off/Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *.5ms* / Straight Contiguous / SFS = *.02,/ Do Nothing With Cover Art / not Invert / *(Phase Alignment Off  / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Real Time / Scheme = 3-5 / UnAttended (Just Start) / *All* Services Off except LAN & RDC/ Persist off/No OSD / No Running Time / Minimize OS / Boost on/XTweaks : Balanced Load = *40* / Nervous Rate = 1/ Cool when Idle = NA / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Best/ Time Stability = On/ No Up-sampling/R-2R DAC
AlainGr
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« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2013, 03:28:02 pm »

Thanks Peter, I was not even aware about this...

Alain
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Desktop with ASUS Sabertooth X79 motherboard,Intel 3930k 6 cores (+ 6) at 1.2 GHZ,32GB ram 1333Mhz,Win 10 pro build 14386 64 bit with no updates,OS + XXHE on external Sata III SSD (Esata), music (WAV) on external 5200 rpm drive through network, OS MInimized, XX with engine 4 adaptive,4096 (buffer size), CPU with scheme 3,Player = Low,Thread = RealTime, Q1 = 14,Q345 = 1,1,1,Q1x=1,Clock res = (variable),Stop Desktop Services,Stop Remaining Services,Stop Wasapi,,LAN on,persist = on,all OSD off,SFS = 2,PE off,PA off, Arc Prediction,x16 Upsample, Straight Contiguous,Lush USB  cable,Phasure NOS1a DAC,Meitner PA-6 preamp, Spectral Audio DMA-180  Power Amp, Tannoy System 15 DMT II, Tannoy St-100 supertweeters, Tannoy TS2.12 subwoofers (2). * On hiatus for a while...
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