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Author Topic: Silverstone card  (Read 89708 times)
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ed linssen
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« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2014, 05:59:59 pm »

Hi,
I wonder what makes this card so special in the beginning.
I thought it was the using of an IT controller, but in the later writings I see Silverstone using the NEC devices again.
What version are you all talking about?
Ed

   
quote author=Nick link=topic=2844.msg29887#msg29887 date=1389977168]
Hi All,

I'm interested in trying a clock change out on the card but it would be good to take a closer look before jumping in. I was looking at the card in low res pictures on-line to try to spot any anything that marks out its implementation from other cards, but the pictures are not very useful.  The crystal and nest of components around it are one of the main areas I of interest because of the crystal implementation's ability to influence the cards audio performance.

Would anyone who has the card be able to post a hi-res picture of the crystal area ?

Many thanks,

Nick.
[/quote]
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« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2014, 07:39:23 pm »

Hi,
I wonder what makes this card so special in the beginning.
I thought it was the using of an IT controller, but in the later writings I see Silverstone using the NEC devices again.
What version are you all talking about?
Ed

   
Hi All,

I'm interested in trying a clock change out on the card but it would be good to take a closer look before jumping in. I was looking at the card in low res pictures on-line to try to spot any anything that marks out its implementation from other cards, but the pictures are not very useful.  The crystal and nest of components around it are one of the main areas I of interest because of the crystal implementation's ability to influence the cards audio performance.

Would anyone who has the card be able to post a hi-res picture of the crystal area ?

Many thanks,

Nick.

Ed hi,

See what you mean, the links in the thread show two quite different looking card layouts.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=364&area=en

This is possibly the most unusual / interesting to take a look at is anyone has one to hand to post a pic of.

Cheers,

Nick.
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« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2014, 09:05:11 pm »

And everybody use Molex to power this card? I see 2 connectors on the card.

 Happy

Today I tried to get the siverstone running on (only) 5V lab supply. No card present in the OS.

Actually when I unplug the molex when the card is operating, it stops altogether, contrary to the PPA studio base card, that keeps on running with a slightly different sound.
This must mean that the molex is more than a firm 5V supply for the USB3 bus. The 12V is used or necessary too.

regards, Coen
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« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2014, 09:30:42 pm »

Hi Coen,

I run the Silverstone on only the 5V pins in the Molex.  I have never connected the 12V wires to the plug.

Like you, when the card is running and I unplug the molex the card becomes invisible to the o/s (but I don't have 12V connected at all).  My deduction is that the 5V is used for more than just the 5V for the USB plug.  I think that it might run the oscillator or something else.

Cheers,

Anthony
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« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2014, 09:43:03 pm »

Hi Anthony,

Thanks, I dug no further.

When I lost the card by unplugging the molex, I rebooted with the 5V lab supply connected (and 'on'), result: no card present. Next reboot with the PC PSU molex the USB3 card was detected again. Maybe my 5V or GND made a poor connection. I will try again.

The 5V is shurely necessary for something. Maybe for both the bus and the 1.05V...

regards, Coen
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Clarixa set + Intona (or Lush 1m), Phasure NOS1a-75B G3 USB (buf 16 ms)-> Blaxius ->SE EL95 (0,8W triode) + cheap link to Abaqus 300W plateamps> Bastanis cable-> Bastanis Sagarmatha Duo ("DIY").

[other sources: TD124/3009SII-i/Grace F9/lounge LCR phono; Rega Planet 1997 vintage]
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« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2014, 10:56:19 pm »

Hi,
I wonder what makes this card so special in the beginning.
I thought it was the using of an IT controller, but in the later writings I see Silverstone using the NEC devices again.
What version are you all talking about?
Ed

   
Hi All,

I'm interested in trying a clock change out on the card but it would be good to take a closer look before jumping in. I was looking at the card in low res pictures on-line to try to spot any anything that marks out its implementation from other cards, but the pictures are not very useful.  The crystal and nest of components around it are one of the main areas I of interest because of the crystal implementation's ability to influence the cards audio performance.

Would anyone who has the card be able to post a hi-res picture of the crystal area ?

Many thanks,

Nick.

Ed hi,

See what you mean, the links in the thread show two quite different looking card layouts.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=364&area=en

This is possibly the most unusual / interesting to take a look at is anyone has one to hand to post a pic of.

Cheers,

Nick.

Hi Nick,

I just sent you an email with the photo of the card.

Cheers,

Anthony
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« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2014, 12:26:20 am »

Anthony,

Many thanks will take a look,

Best,

Nick.
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ed linssen
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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2014, 01:10:33 am »

Hi Nick,

The two different controllers are:

NEC uPD720201  and
TI TUSB7340, both used in the Silverstone model 4 card.

I wonder which one is used in the "wonder"card? Hahaha!
Maybe somebody can tell me, since I am really curious.
The one from Nec is , together with the 720202/00,  a popular couple used for a few years now. The TI controller has been put in the market medium 2013.
Ed

  
See what you mean, the links in the thread show two quite different looking card layouts.

http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=364&area=en

This is possibly the most unusual / interesting to take a look at is anyone has one to hand to post a pic of.

Cheers,

Nick.
[/quote]
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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2014, 11:09:51 am »

This seems not so easy ...

See below; Focus on the position of the crystal.

Let's call the first one A. This is the one I have. EC04-P. NEC.
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=364&area=en

The next one we'll call B. I think this is aways named EC04. TI.
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=332

Thrid one is C. This is EC04-E. NEC.
SATA Power connector, but again another layout.
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=439&area=en


The confusing should only be between A and B and I don't think it is much guaranteed which one you'll get when you order either of them. For example, sites which show the card may show the picture of B while the box (with clear plastic) shows that A is in there.

Peter



* SS-EC04-P-02.png (303.08 KB, 577x387 - viewed 1033 times.)

* SS-EC04-02.png (293.29 KB, 555x385 - viewed 1057 times.)

* SS-EC04-E.png (258.3 KB, 678x514 - viewed 1025 times.)
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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2014, 11:58:32 am »

Thank you, Peter,
The one you have, is a NEC, and that is important to know.
That's the one with the halucinating "drug" in it!

I will try thay one,
Ed



This seems not so easy ...

See below; Focus on the position of the crystal.

Let's call the first one A. This is the one I have. EC04-P. NEC.
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=364&area=en

The next one we'll call B. I think this is aways named EC04. TI.
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=332

Thrid one is C. This is EC04-E. NEC.
SATA Power connector, but again another layout.
http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=439&area=en


The confusing should only be between A and B and I don't think it is much guaranteed which one you'll get when you order either of them. For example, sites which show the card may show the picture of B while the box (with clear plastic) shows that A is in there.

Peter


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« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2014, 12:18:30 pm »

That TI USB Host Controller is very interesting because it is designed to take a 48MHz clock as standard, although it can take any frequency up to 50MHz.  The NEC chips can only take 24MHz crystals (although a clock can be used) which could be important considering these chips all 'clock-up' to 480MHz.  The TI can do this with half the frequency change to the NEC.

You will see that the crystal used on the Silverstone board (in Peters photos above) whith the TI chip is in fact a 48MHz.

Possibly important.  Peter (or anyone else for that matter), if you have one of these boards with the TI chip lying around I would be most interested to hear your impressions compared to the Silverstone with the NEC chip.

Cheers,

Anthony
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Audio Chain
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« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2014, 01:11:42 pm »

I had a read through the TI TUSB7340 data sheet earlier, there's some interesting stuff which could be relevant to the sound quality the chip produces:

  • It can be clocked from 20 to 48mhz. There is a pin select on the chip to allow for 48mhz operation without programming. A Rom or PCIe channel programming of a clock multiplier can be used to allow other clock speeds such as 24mhz etc.

  • The chip is specificly designed to used with either a crystal oscillator OR an external clock (similar to what some are doing with external clocks). This is interesting has, someone realised that performance of USB links depends on clock quality or might this be to support synchronous operation with other devices ?

  • The crystal occilator circuit is referenced back to a special pin on the chip where normally the circuit is referenced to the signal ground of the PCB. This could be very important, from clock experiments I'm sure ground noise in the clock signal has a [-ve] effect on sound quality.

  • The clock input pin needs is 1.8v clock signal IIRC what it said in the datasheet. The data sheet specifically states that the input is NOT 3.3v tollerent so clocking with a dexa or any other 3.3v clock source will need some components to step down the clock amplitude.

  • The chip has some high quality PPL implementation, not sure where but in the right place could be very good news for sound quality.

  • Finally there is a spread spectrum feature which is potentially not so positive. I have not got to the bottom of wheather this is enabled all the time or has to be turned on. Personally off would be the place to be for audio.

    Edit actually thinking about this it may be a feature that allows the chip to be tolerant to the PC using spread spectrum. I'll take another look at the data sheet.

The sound of earlier TI usb 2 and usb 3 chipsets were not good IMHO. this new chipset look like a REALLY interesting chipset for audio though. I'm starting to get a sense of why Peters reports on sound quality are so much different from NEC chipset USB cards.

Need to take a listen to this card but its going to be the TI chipset version that for sure.

Nick.
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Music server: X99, Xeon 28 thread PC.

System power two 3kva balanced tranformers with dedicated earth spur.
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« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2014, 01:35:38 pm »

I should have read the post more carefully ! I had not noticed from the above Peter that you have the NEC version.

It might be fun to try the TI version still but NEC copy of the card first to try out :-)

Nick.

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 w10 14393 RAM OS => XX V2.10 / adaptive mode / XX buffer 4096 / NOS USB driver v 1.02 buffer 16ms / Q1,2,3,4,5 = 10,-,1,1,1 / xQ1 =15 / unattended / SFS 0.69Mb / memory straight continuous / system clock 15.0ms / Threadprio RealTime / Playerprio Low / CPU scheme 3-5 / 16x Arc Prediction / Peak Extend off / Phase alignment off / Phase off  / XTweaks : Balanced Load 35 / Nervous Rate 10 (or15) / Cool when Idle n/a / Provide Stable Power 0 / Utilize Cores always 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability  On =>  Lush USB cable => modified NOS1 USB DAC => no pre amp => Orelo active horn loudspeakers with modified bass channel DSPs.

Music server: X99, Xeon 28 thread PC.

System power two 3kva balanced tranformers with dedicated earth spur.
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« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2014, 03:48:17 pm »

Haha Nick; I already didn't understand which direction you were heading ...

Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - July 17, 2021 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 14/28 cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/0/0/*1*/ Q1Factor = *4* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = *10ms* / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.13*  (max 10.13) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *62* / Nervous Rate = *1* / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / Custom Filtering *Low* (16x) / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^3
A: W-Y-R-G, B: *W-G* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> Blaxius*^2.5* A:B-G, B:B-G Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. ET^2 Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2014, 04:14:22 pm »

OK i have two cards now in my pc. One (the old) is a Conrad USB 3 card.
http://www.conrad.nl/ce/nl/product/973583/?insert=89&insertNoDeeplink&productname=2-poorts-USB-30-PCI-express-controller
And the second is the new Silverstone. http://www.silverstonetek.com/product.php?pid=364&area=en

I like to say that I tried the Conrad card without bracket. But that result in strange reaction from XXhighend and some small ticks/plops.  unhappy

The Silvertsone does not give that result so i am happy. But the sound is real special. Playing some live recorded music and  you can hear the audience so well. It is if the background has become much more forward.

:-)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2014, 01:44:40 pm by Gerard » Logged

Januari 2017 XX 2.05
OriginAE x11v Home build HTCP ~ Asus x79 mobo 3930K 12 core underclock 500 MHz,
16GB, *Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0* *from RAM*, music on music server / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.10*  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core *3-5* / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive *none* (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best (OS from RAM issue) / Time Stability = Off (OS from RAM issue) / Custom Filter Mid 705600 / -> USB3 (Silverstone both sides isolated = Sw#3 of NOS1a = Up) -> *Clairixa USB 15cm* -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 0.70m -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink ->> Metrum Amps ->> Metrum Acoustics ESL Open Baffle.
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