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Author Topic: Difference beteen Orelino and Orelo MKII ?  (Read 14700 times)
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Gerard
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« on: March 11, 2014, 10:41:59 pm »

Can anyone explain a bit? Orelino-Orelo?? Did not know there were two different speakers.

And this MKII what does that mean.

 Happy
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« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2014, 08:45:37 am »

And this MKII what does that mean.

First there was the Orelo MkI, then the Orelino and now we have the Orelo MkII.

The Orelo MkI was demonstrated 2 years ago at the xfi show and is still my reference  (a bit tall for most), last year I've launched the Orelino as a way more domestic solution and now we have the Orelo MkII which is something in between.

Although, completely revised making it a new design with new features and better performance within the given possibilities. The Orelino following most of these developments and is now basically the "Baby" Orelo MkII and should be named Orelino M2 actually.

References for the Orelo MkI and Orelino can be found on this forum as well...

Bert
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« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2014, 09:56:18 am »

With the notion that the word of the Master counts ...

I realize that I started this board and its first post right out of the blue without too much "real introduction" because it would have been a too formal thing in my view. So, this introductionary post was the 9th version of 8 others which were 4 times longer (Bert knows the last of those) and it just got too long to my thinking. The first version I already created last September and/but the work has been so enormous that we only knew what would come of it when it was really done. And this was around "yesterday".
Now it is also more genuine (just real life) instead of commercial talk. At least that is my own opinion.

The history of the naming went more or less like this :

The Big Orelo is the no-nonsense speaker


Designed with "no limits" but really large and 4x15" woofers. It can be auditioned at Bert's place.

This is a passive speaker regarding mid-high, and the bass is active and comes with DSP.


Then a more commercial version was developed - the baby version of the Big Orelo :


And we named it Orelino.
Easily fits everybody's room and the top horn's middle is at 1m25 / 3ft8. Contains 3x12" woofers.
Can be auditioned at Phasure hence my place.

This is an all active speaker with separate/dedicated amplification for bass, mid and high. Bass can be controlled by integrated DSP.


In the mean time we also tried to turn the Big Orelo into a speaker that would fit people's rooms but which would carry the same specifications;
It was named Orelo MKII :


The Orelo MKII has been a "hobby" of how to squeeze all into the smallest size while maintaining the efficiency of the Big Orelo (all Bert's work) and it contains 3x15" woofers.
Can be audiotioned at Phasure's.

The "efficiency" as such comes from a very large part from the way the DSP for the bass can be tuned and which has become a sort of obession for myself and now resulting in a straight to 19Hz (+/-0.5dB) which of course is outrageous for an open baffle design which also denotes the beauty of the "most open" bass which is totally real and not a super distorting subwoofer (you'll only know the difference once you experienced it).

One of the explicit design elements of the MKII is the height of the throat of the horn which here is 1m35 / 4ft1 and which allows for off-axis listening at all times (you'll always be under the beam somewhat). This in itself now allows for any toeing desired which now thus can be "straight" as well, while still listening off axis.
The MKII too is a full-active speaker with the same amplification and DSP as the Orelino.

This is not all, because both the Orelino and Orelo MKII come with this :


which looks like a simple picture but actually is about a crazy wireing scheme without degrading the sound quality and which allows for external amplification and even anticipates future full DSP options without taking out the soldering iron.

There is still more, but nobody likes too long posts ... Wink
Peter
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2014, 11:51:43 am »

Really nice  ok
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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2014, 12:41:40 pm »

There is still more, but nobody likes too long posts ...

Speaking for myself, I'd be more than happy to have one of your really long posts on all this.

The more I hear about these speakers, the more psyched I am to have mine here. It seems Bert has really put some serious effort in getting things where they are (with more than a bit of help/encouragement from you of course). Well done!

Mani.
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2014, 02:01:12 pm »

Wasn't sure where to put this, so maybe it needs to be moved at some point...

But is is about the sound !

So, any thoughts on the sound you can share with us?

Mani.
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2014, 02:14:34 pm »

Sufficient thoughts Mani !
Share them is something different; first a few more other general subjects.

But yes, of course ...
Peter
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2014, 12:44:48 pm »

Hey Peter, here's what you said about the Orelo MkI speakers at X-fi 2012:

When we left last night after breaking all up, we left a cold empty room #110 and I said "good bye my cosy room !".
Yes, I want to be in there again. Play all my greatest tracks.

In terms of SQ, how much of a compromise are the MkIIs over the mighty MkIs?

But I understand, more general subjects first - I'm really enjoying learning about the more technical aspects of the speakers.

Mani.
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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2014, 05:28:40 pm »

Hey Mani,

Hard to avoid *that* question, but not so easy to answer ...

I saw Bert write that the Big Orelo's still are his reference. He can do that at his will, and I can say "oh no" at mine, but the least I should say is that we are not able to compare. It's also "nice" to see that when Bert made his statement about this he actually never listened here plus that after that statement we applied some last anf final improvements to the MKII (and he again never heard them after that). On the other side of the coin I listened to the Big Orelo's several times at Bert's and they sure improved too over time, just as that they will have improved over the last change to the MKII which Bert will just apply the same to the Big Orelo's (because it can).
Lastly our both rooms are not the same, so what to say.

However ...

Looking at the merit of your question it is 100% sure that what I have playing here now is a super improvement over what the Big Orelo showed at x-Fi 2012. But that already counts for the Orelino. And to make it even more complex or incomparable ... What happened to the Orphean horn for amplification and what's related to the efficiency (from 115dB to 118dB) is a change with impact you can't imagine, and *that* was never applied to the Orelino yet, hence I never heard it from "her" (yet).

The absolute sound as how I perceive it is still for another topic, but I already know what difficulty I will have at describing it. But we'll see soon what I can make of that description.

Regards,
Peter
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Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
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« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2014, 09:01:13 am »

In terms of SQ, how much of a compromise are the MkIIs over the mighty MkIs?

Hi Mani,

Focus, this is something I always pursuit. Sometimes a big wide stage with music anywhere in your room is pretty cool too but that's mostly a free bonus when you have a big room supporting that as long as the speakers are able to fill the extra volume of course.

Peter has a BIG room, mine is moderate are relative small and I can imagine why Peter likes his setup more simply because of that.

My system is therefore more intimate, dreaming away on the couch listening to my favourite music but sometimes I want to have that big stage as well.

The main plus for the MkI's is their ability to focus more precise with the extra set of woofers on top. This creates a virtual center for the bass similar as the point source acting mid-high horns. All sound is basically coming from one single point, the main reason why I always liked full-range drivers in the past.

The extra bass drivers give more headroom (not really needed in my room!) in the bass with fewer vertical standing wave problems as a bonus.

But didn't Peter tell you that there is also the option to have an extra bass section on top of the Orelino and Orelo MkII?

At extra costs though and if you didn't know then now you do! ;-)

Bert

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XX settings basically similar to PeterSt's
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2014, 10:25:09 am »

LOL LOL LOL

Really ...

As "dry" as Bert here spits out the possibility of this extra section on top, he told that to me too and he is even serious about it. So envision :

First we try to make an Orelo MKII which performs as good as his father (big Orelo) and when that's all done someone comes up with a "hey, you can add another woofer section on top of that if you want !".

But might someone really want it, technically the reference level (no sub-low audible distortion) of 88dBSPL will go to 94dBSPL (at straight to 19Hz). Not sure who would need that, but in the end it could be about a very (very !) large room.

Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - April 1, 2020 (2.11)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to *14/28* cores in BIOS and set to 10/20 cores via Boot Menu) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = *14*/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = *1* / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *10.19*  (max *10.19*) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *52* / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers. *ET^2* Ethernet from Mach III to Music Server PC (RDC Control).
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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manisandher
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« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2014, 10:50:31 am »

But didn't Peter tell you that there is also the option to have an extra bass section on top of the Orelino and Orelo MkII?

But might someone really want it, technically the reference level (no sub-low audible distortion) of 88dBSPL will go to 94dBSPL (at straight to 19Hz). Not sure who would need that, but in the end it could be about a very (very !) large room.

I'll stick with my MkIIs, sans extra bass section, I think - should be more than OK in my room.

But if I had a much bigger room, rather than going for an extra bass section with the MkIIs, I'd probably just change my order to a pair of MkIs. But I suppose it's good to offer people the option...

Mani.
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Main System:
Phasure Mach III (Win 14393.0 on RAM-OS / controlled by RDC, / connected directly to music server / XXHighEnd 2.10 / Minimize OS / Engine#4 Adaptive / DB=4096 / Q1=10 / xQ1=15 / Q3,4,5=1 / SFS=0.69 / XTweaks = 34, 10, 0, 0, 0 / Straight Contiguous / Clock Resolution = 15ms / Scheme 3-5 (low/realtime) / 8x Arc Prediction / switch #5 'up/off' / Unattended) mobo USB3 port -> Lush^2 -> Phasure NOS1a B75 G3 -> 8m Blaxius^2 -> First Watt F5-cloned mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers
Office System:
Phasure Mach II (with Nick's clock upgrade) -> Lush^2 -> Phasure NOS1a G3 -> BD-Design BD30-SPR mono amps -> Tune Audio Marvel horn speakers
BertD
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« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2014, 12:04:12 pm »

But might someone really want it, technically the reference level (no sub-low audible distortion) of 88dBSPL will go to 94dBSPL (at straight to 19Hz). Not sure who would need that, but in the end it could be about a very (very !) large room.

I would! ;-)

And serious about this too because it is not just dB's, think about even less distortion at the same 88dB (not sure if you can hear that...) but do not forget the d'Apolito configuration creating an ideal point source.

But BIG indeed and think that the Orelo MkI is a system I've build solely for myself without thinking about future commercial options. Therefore the Orelino was born and the present Orelo MkII which do perform outstanding as well where both could become some sort of MkI too with an extra bass section on top.

Bert
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Februari 1st: RDC controlled i7-4785T (set to 800Mhz - fully passive design without any moving parts), 16GB RAM / XXHighEnd 2.04c on 2GB RAMDisk (IMDisk) / Windows 10 Pro 10586.0 X64 on internal 250GB SSD / Music on external NAS / Playback Drive 10GB RAMDisk (IMDisk) / SFS 0.10 / Barbone Industrial Intona > Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) > Blaxius BNC interlink > BD-Design BD30-SPR amplifiers > BD-Design Custom Made Sigma loudspeakers.

XX settings basically similar to PeterSt's
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