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Author Topic: Sound of the Orelo MKII  (Read 37014 times)
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PeterSt
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« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2014, 09:24:58 pm »

Hey Joachim,

Quote
My impression is that good recorded Live CD’s are presenting a better/natural sound than most of the studio recordings.

I sure tend to agree with you. Less "super mixing" to be done eh ?

Otherwise all my PCs are not connected to any decent speakers (so 1 square inch in-built monitor "speakers" only, but I will try those tomorrow anyway).

Regards,
Peter
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For a general PC :
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« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2014, 09:54:27 pm »


Cymbals too sound OK, but not 100% as I have it here. Why ? not completely sure, but I think something goes wrong in the highs itself. So, listen to the hits on the snare and you can hear it. Or the roffle towards the end, where all the highs mush up. And mind you, the cymbals towards the end measured 110dB when I just played it (which is exactly right/real).


I agree about the cymbals Peter.  My thoughts were something to do with the accuracy of the microphone, especially in the highs, as well as the placement of the microphone.


Anthony, thank you. I will get the whole album of course. Just totally curious how the other tracks will sound.
Super.

Peter



It's probably just as important as the actual sound quality, but to me this album sounds like the musicians are having fun.  That's what stays with me after I have listened to it, that I have just heard a super relaxed jazz quartet that obviously play off each other and enjoy what they are doing.  You don't often get that in a studio album.  I think that is one of the first things that gets washed away when you start editing a performance.

Anthony
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« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2014, 01:33:30 pm »


Cymbals too sound OK, but not 100% as I have it here. Why ? not completely sure, but I think something goes wrong in the highs itself. So, listen to the hits on the snare and you can hear it. Or the roffle towards the end, where all the highs mush up. And mind you, the cymbals towards the end measured 110dB when I just played it (which is exactly right/real).

I agree about the cymbals Peter.  My thoughts were something to do with the accuracy of the microphone, especially in the highs, as well as the placement of the microphone.

This seems like typical DSD behaviour to me.

Mani.
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« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2014, 09:15:48 pm »

...Tomorrow I am going to take some Jazz drumming lessons.  secret

Ha! I've discovered your secret!   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRhoHN8x_00

 drinks
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« Reply #49 on: April 09, 2014, 10:21:01 pm »

...Tomorrow I am going to take some Jazz drumming lessons.  secret

Ha! I've discovered your secret!   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRhoHN8x_00

 drinks

In other words, It is never too late for all of us.

Edit: and vice versa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9DQtkjsWFQ&list=PL82A3C61C990361AD
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« Reply #50 on: April 14, 2014, 01:50:09 pm »


There is one further aspect of speaker performance that I would be interested to hear your view on Peter particularly in relation to the Orelo MKII.

As I have posted elsewhere I have now built three IPL transmission line speakers S2, S4 and S5. IMHO they are superb and there is very little "out there" that is as good particularly in the bass. The S5's are a special case they are big and it took me a long time to get them to work in my big odd shaped room. But now they do and the bass performance is special.

Having heard the speakers in 3 very different size rooms what is clear is that in the smaller rooms bass generally is tighter even though I have no complaints at all about the sound in my big odd shaped room since I managed to get big improvements in that area by room placement changes.

The question is though what causes this very noticeable effect. Now I guess you (Peter) are going to say that it will not be problem with the Orello MkII but it would be interesting to know why.

Cheers

Paul



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« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2014, 03:01:11 pm »


I'd have to guess Paul ...
So hit me (tap on the shoulder would also be OK) when I have it all wrong;

Of course by now I'm a convict of "large enough woofer area", so this has to be my base. And in case you missed it, please read this : Re: Bass Issue (Lack thereof);

With that (post behind that link) as the general thought, there's the THD involved and believe me, there is no single way this can be OK when no sufficient woofer surface is present, BUT (!!) at the SPL involved. Also, the lower the frequency the more tough it gets. Also, generally, each woofer rolls off under around 100Hz which is a sort mechanical self-protection (not explicit, but it's just more tough in that area, the lower the more).

THD is the factor of frequency, power applied and mechanical properties of the driver. However, I personally think that those properties are not the most crucial which already comes from them not being easy to interpret in their environment; just too many factors involved. And so :
It is only about the allowed excursion and no matter what driver and what size (like 10" vs 21") when the excursion crosses a limit (like 0.5cm) audible THD is your share. Notice that I gave the 21" as an expample on purpose because it will show you (hopefully) that some properties do matter, like the surface of 21" being too large now, and when not too heavy and slow (the mass) then too weak (but again implying distortion).
So we stick to the excursion, and now it is only a matter of power applied. Why only that ? because the lower the frequency the more power needed to create "your" SPL and thus the more excursion.

Notice : It is somewhat more complicated because I assume "linear power" in your situation which is different from boosting more at the lower frequencies. This is about the mechanical(ly implied) roll off under mentioned 100Hz and when this is not boosted the frequencies are just not there (or less there) and so they also can not distort (haha).

Now finally to the point : The bigger room needs more power to get the same SPL at the listening position.

It will not be so that the lower frequencies will get boosted because of this, but the more excursion implied, the more the lower frequencies will distort. And this is not exactly "more tight". Possibly more deep or low, but tight not.

For a cabinetted speaker it won't even be easy to observe the excursion, or better put : I myself won't be able to tell what is allowed because you will observe less excursion anyway because of the back pressure. But otherwise ? 2mm to one side perhaps for something like 30Hz.
So the difficulty here is that when you observe 1mm it can already be way too much because the driver doesn't move freely, but I can't tell and it will vary per speaker (literal) design.


You may have seen me telling how super surprised I was that with the Orelino already I was able to get out that "concert level bass" and that I could not understand how it kept on working for the room size I have; What I meant there was that I was used to my 1x 15" cabinetted (horn) woofer and there would have been no way to get out that SPL without the room being "full". So my observation was relative to that, and it now is my conclsusion that this is not about rooms getting full at all, but just about the distortion implied, never mind we don't observe it as distortion.

Lastly, the phnomenon "tight bass" I think does not exist any more for me. This is because there's always first that other phenomenon now : do you perceive the individual wave/frequency cycles. Well, you will as long as they don't wobble (are distorted) and it is clear to me that it is that what has all changed. And for something like 30Hz in a more square form this is there at 80dBSPL but just the same at 100dBSPL. But keep in mind : this 100dBSPL is the output of that 30Hz frequency and not something you measure from a voice, that 30Hz being 15dB or so down. So that this can work really seems crazy but it just does.

Long answer eh ?
Peter
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
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*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2014, 03:21:22 pm »

When I'm typing in here anyway again (previous post) ...

Day before yesterday I have experienced something quite new and exciting;

I was playing Rhoda Scott / Kenny Clark - Jazz in Paris.
Already at the end of the first track I noticed that the ending went super spacious. Ok, nice that was. But at the end of the second track - same story. Then I started to watch out for what actually happens and I think in the middle of the third track it happened again. So what ?

She switches on the Leslie at very low frequency (at also lower frequency of sound)

Djeezz, what an effct *that* gives !
Man, you just feel the "wave" going back and forth. Very special.

Peter
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XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2014, 09:48:12 pm »

Quote
Djeezz, what an effct *that* gives !
Man, you just feel the "wave" going back and forth. Very special.

Mouthwatering indeed!!
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