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Author Topic: LP versus CD  (Read 6560 times)
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Gerard
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« on: November 30, 2007, 08:31:04 pm »

Hi,

I allway's heard that the SQ of a LP was much better than a CD.... If so does it still sound beter? Meaning now with XX?


Grtz
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Januari 2017 XX 2.05
OriginAE x11v Home build HTCP ~ Asus x79 mobo 3930K 12 core underclock 500 MHz,
16GB, *Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0* *from RAM*, music on music server / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.10*  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core *3-5* / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive *none* (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best (OS from RAM issue) / Time Stability = Off (OS from RAM issue) / Custom Filter Mid 705600 / -> USB3 (Silverstone both sides isolated = Sw#3 of NOS1a = Up) -> *Clairixa USB 15cm* -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 0.70m -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink ->> Metrum Amps ->> Metrum Acoustics ESL Open Baffle.
Chris V
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« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2007, 11:23:06 pm »

Hi Gerard, I have written about this elsewhere on this site.

A little while ago (around about version d) XXHighend caught up and passed the SQ of my Linn Sondek, Ittok,
EAR 834P phono etc.

The record deck is now sold and my record collection goes next Wednesday. There is no going back and indeed no need to drinks drinks.
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Music on external hard drive with own power supply. Brains of the system is a Raspberry Pi running Moode Audio. The RPI has dedicated Longdog audio linear power supply.
Signal passes first to SW1X Signature USB to SPDIF  converter
Then to SW1X Signature DAC
Then to Stevens and Billington TVC
Then to modified vintage triode amplifier
Then to open baffle speakers with vintage alnico drivers. Grundig tweeter, Saba Greencone midrange, Altec 416 VOTT base.
Everything is silver wired including mains and speaker cables
SeVeReD
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« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2007, 01:55:58 am »

Hi Gerard, I have written about this elsewhere on this site.

A little while ago (around about version d) XXHighend caught up and passed the SQ of my Linn Sondek, Ittok,
EAR 834P phono etc.

The record deck is now sold and my record collection goes next Wednesday. There is no going back and indeed no need to drinks drinks.

Your selling your record collection?  Did you archive it?  I just have so much on LP that I'm not going to replace on CD... even though I don't have a turntable up anymore/yet, I'm holding onto the albums... if only for the covers.  Make sure to check on ebay or the like what they are really worth.  I thought I'd sold a couple CDs because I was trying to find their cover art to scan... fortunantely I hadn't yet because I found out they were going for far more than I'd expect them to go.  When things go outta print, I guess collectors go mad.
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0.9z-8-3a WAV/CUE files on HDDs via MB FW400>; Win7 pro ttp://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=352.msg4021#msg4021); [XXHighEnd player  Qs 7, 0, 0, 0, 0; eng 4; adaptive; scheme#3; player priority low; thread priority realtime; clock res 5ms: SFS 420 Wink dac is 24/192 w/32bits; Play Unattended; Stop Services ticked; Wallpaper & Show Back ticked - Mirror Image unticked; Start Engine unticked;garbage collect ticked; copy files to XX-drive; *quad arc prediction upsampling*: straight contiguous:>PCI FW800 card>Fireface 800 DAC [latency 2048 samples for 176.4]; usb/ethernet/mb audio shut off @ MB
Gerard
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« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2007, 06:06:25 am »

Hi Gerard, I have written about this elsewhere on this site.

A little while ago (around about version d) XXHighend caught up and passed the SQ of my Linn Sondek, Ittok,
EAR 834P phono etc.

The record deck is now sold and my record collection goes next Wednesday. There is no going back and indeed no need to drinks drinks.

Hoi Chris,

Sorry i did not seen that post... Was just curious  very happy Can you put in the link to that post? can't find it.. Happy

Interesting you gave up on LP..

Grtz
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Januari 2017 XX 2.05
OriginAE x11v Home build HTCP ~ Asus x79 mobo 3930K 12 core underclock 500 MHz,
16GB, *Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0* *from RAM*, music on music server / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = *0.10*  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core *3-5* / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive *none* (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Not the best (OS from RAM issue) / Time Stability = Off (OS from RAM issue) / Custom Filter Mid 705600 / -> USB3 (Silverstone both sides isolated = Sw#3 of NOS1a = Up) -> *Clairixa USB 15cm* -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 0.70m -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink ->> Metrum Amps ->> Metrum Acoustics ESL Open Baffle.
Chris V
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« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2007, 10:55:10 am »

Hi Gerard, I have written about this elsewhere on this site.

A little while ago (around about version d) XXHighend caught up and passed the SQ of my Linn Sondek, Ittok,
EAR 834P phono etc.

The record deck is now sold and my record collection goes next Wednesday. There is no going back and indeed no need to drinks drinks.

Hoi Chris,

Sorry i did not seen that post... Was just curious  very happy Can you put in the link to that post? can't find it.. Happy

Interesting you gave up on LP..

Grtz

Here you go. It was early days in this forum with only a few of us around - you could hear the echos good
http://www.phasure.com/index.php?topic=52.0
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Music on external hard drive with own power supply. Brains of the system is a Raspberry Pi running Moode Audio. The RPI has dedicated Longdog audio linear power supply.
Signal passes first to SW1X Signature USB to SPDIF  converter
Then to SW1X Signature DAC
Then to Stevens and Billington TVC
Then to modified vintage triode amplifier
Then to open baffle speakers with vintage alnico drivers. Grundig tweeter, Saba Greencone midrange, Altec 416 VOTT base.
Everything is silver wired including mains and speaker cables
Chris V
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« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2007, 11:22:06 am »

Hi Gerard, I have written about this elsewhere on this site.

A little while ago (around about version d) XXHighend caught up and passed the SQ of my Linn Sondek, Ittok,
EAR 834P phono etc.

The record deck is now sold and my record collection goes next Wednesday. There is no going back and indeed no need to drinks drinks.

Your selling your record collection?  Did you archive it?  I just have so much on LP that I'm not going to replace on CD... even though I don't have a turntable up anymore/yet, I'm holding onto the albums... if only for the covers.  Make sure to check on ebay or the like what they are really worth.  I thought I'd sold a couple CDs because I was trying to find their cover art to scan... fortunantely I hadn't yet because I found out they were going for far more than I'd expect them to go.  When things go outta print, I guess collectors go mad.

Hi

This was a dilemma. I have the Record Collectors book and many seemed to be worth reasonable money.

I have about 300 albums and have been trying to sell them as a batch for about 3 months.

Here are some of the reasons they will not achieve the sort of money I hope for:

1. "True vinyl collectors have copies of most of what they want by now"
2. "The second hand market for vinyl is nearly dead"
3. "Most are fit only for Oxfam"
4. Peoples tastes are very different and they want to cherry pick the best albums
5. "Unless covers are pristine they are worthless"
6. E Bay people buy records and after recording them complain they are scratched and expect a refund, you then get bad feedback
7. I cant be arsed with all the aggro on E Bay - the thought of going to the Post Office with that many albums one at a time grazy
8. The albums weigh about 80Kg in total and postage as a single lot is prohibitively expensive.
9. True collectors only want them if they are a particular pressing by a particular factory and have a particular letter etched on the vinyl - bloody anoraks.

As for archiving, I did think about it with the Fireface 400, but life's too short and in a way its cathartic to just let them go.

So they are being collected for £150 this week by a chap who will play and appreciate them. Its a bitter pill, sweetened only by the SQ of XXHighend Wink
Logged

Music on external hard drive with own power supply. Brains of the system is a Raspberry Pi running Moode Audio. The RPI has dedicated Longdog audio linear power supply.
Signal passes first to SW1X Signature USB to SPDIF  converter
Then to SW1X Signature DAC
Then to Stevens and Billington TVC
Then to modified vintage triode amplifier
Then to open baffle speakers with vintage alnico drivers. Grundig tweeter, Saba Greencone midrange, Altec 416 VOTT base.
Everything is silver wired including mains and speaker cables
PeterSt
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« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2007, 11:34:42 am »

And at the time of that post XXHighEnd was virtually lousy sounding (which at that time we found *very* good). rofl
But as time goes by ...

Some three weeks ago I have been listening to a couple of 20K-30K turntables with 4K pickup elements, and I must honestly say ...

The vinyl guys just don't know what they are missing ...
Suddenly they have an enormeous set back. yes

I have planned some more explicit comparison sessions (a.o. with the fameous mr. Van den Hul who lives 300 meters down the road), and as far as I can be objective, I'll report back.


About above mentioned set back ... of course I should be more explicit, but since all was heard through a for me unknown system, I think it is dangerous to point out specifics. I can say though, that where everybody was raving about what they heard (tenths of people visited this "national pick-up days" as how the sessions were called), I really couldn't find a reason to.

One of the most remarkeable things I noticed, was that playing an expensive turntable seems more difficult then ripping, tuning your PC and all. If there's not unsolveable hum from the beginning and 10 people scientifically working out how to route the earthings, then there's airflow noise from air-bearing tangential arms. Hahaha.
Browsing LP's smelled nice as usual, but it's really no way of finding your music. Not for me, not anymore. But that's another matter of course.

More from me (many weeks) later.
Peter
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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Carlos
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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2007, 09:02:58 pm »

Digital Audio has a lot of benefits over LP, but, don´t you miss the smooth and deep bass?

I have never noticed it elsewhere, no matter if it is in a Live Concert or in a storm. Maybe it is cause the reverb, or... maybe that LP bass is not "true"?

It wouldn't be the first time I love something that does not exist.
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PeterSt
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2007, 10:19:04 pm »

No Carlos, the opposite ...

The bass from vinyl, what I listened to the whole day anyway, was lacking of definition all over the place. The effect from that ?
No smoothness, but merely rumbling (no no, I don't mean rumble from the turntable).
When I made a remark about it, I was asked the question "do you want even more clinical bass  ?". And I did not understand that question ...

So since then I've been talking to a few genuin bass guitarists, and each of them came of with indeed the same remark : the sound of a bass guitar should not sound lineair and out of everything should not sound clinical. "That's why we love tube amps" they said.

My next question was how their basses get recorded, and the answer was "directly through the mixing console".
but also
"but we'd love it when all is recorded through a microphone in front of the loudspeaker" ...

So there you go ... there is no way to listen to how the players intended their playing.

Another things which surprised me is that they told me that there's no better dynamical instrument than a bass guitar. Similarly the remark about it being so difficult to outperform the sound of toms with a bass guitar, surprised me.

The whole subject is too complex to put down in writing here, but what it comes down to is that I bought a bass guitar, a good amp with it (on the asvise of one of these bass guitarists), and that I 100% can imagine what they mean by the mixing console vs. the microphone just because of what the amp can do to the sound (like overdrive and interaction with the speaker driver), but the other things (dynamics) ... no. The point is that only few people these days know what CD recorded (compressed) audio is capabale of during playback. Those guys just don't know that ... I (we) do ...

Le Snob heat
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For the Stealth III LPS PC :
W10-14393.0 - Oct 31, 2018 (2.10)
XXHighEnd Mach III Stealth LPS PC -> Xeon Scalable 14/28 core with Hyperthreading On (set to 10/20 cores) @~660MHz, 48GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 14393.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 30/-/1/1/1/ Q1Factor = 10 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 15ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 140.19  (max 140.19) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / Stop Desktop, Remaining, WASAPI and W10 services / Use Remote Desktop / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD Off (!) / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = 35 / Nervous Rate = 10 / Cool when Idle = n.a / Provide Stable Power = 0 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = Optimal / Time Stability = Stable / *Arc Prediction Filtering (16x)* / Always Clear Proxy before Playback = On -> USB3 from MoBo -> Lush^2*A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R* USB 1m00 -> Phisolator 24/768 Phasure NOS1a/G3 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (16ms) -> B'ASS Current Amplifier -> *Blaxius^2 A:B-R, B:B-R* Interlink -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere (also from the PC).

For a general PC :
W10-10586.0 - May 2016 (2.05+)
*XXHighEnd PC -> I7 3930k with Hyperthreading On (12 cores)* @~500MHz, 16GB, Windows 10 Pro 64 bit build 10586.0 from RAM, music on LAN / Engine#4 Adaptive Mode / Q1/-/3/4/5 = 14/-/1/1/1 / Q1Factor = 1 / Dev.Buffer = 4096 / ClockRes = 1ms / Memory = Straight Contiguous / Include Garbage Collect / SFS = 0.10  (max 60) / not Invert / Phase Alignment Off / Playerprio = Low / ThreadPrio = Realtime / Scheme = Core 3-5 / Not Switch Processors during Playback = Off/ Playback Drive none (see OS from RAM) / UnAttended (Just Start) / Always Copy to XX Drive (see OS from RAM) / All Services Off / Keep LAN - Not Persist / WallPaper On / OSD On / Running Time Off / Minimize OS / XTweaks : Balanced Load = *43* / Nervous Rate = 1 / Cool when Idle = 1 / Provide Stable Power = 1 / Utilize Cores always = 1 / Time Performance Index = *Optimal* / Time Stability = *Stable* / Custom Filter *Low* 705600 / -> USB3 *from MoBo* -> Clairixa USB 15cm -> Intona Isolator -> Clairixa USB 1m80 -> 24/768 Phasure NOS1a 75B (BNC Out) async USB DAC, Driver v1.0.4b (4ms) -> Blaxius BNC interlink *-> B'ASS Current Amplifier /w Level4 -> Blaxius Interlink* -> Orelo MKII Active Open Baffle Horn Speakers.
Removed Switching Supplies from everywhere.

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andy74
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« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2007, 09:16:33 am »

One day I am going to get myself a turntable anyway...
I have still got a couple of records somewhere in my closet.
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1. USB FreeAgent 500Gb -> P4 2.8 2gb RAM Vista Ult  -> XXHE Q1=14 prio both = Normal -> esi juli@ (SPDIF is default device->analog mon in ESI panel->analog outs) -> nad 320BEE->Boston Acoustics cr150
3. IBM thinkpad r52->VIsta Ult XXHE, Unattended playerprio=Nothing threadPrio=Normal -> very cheap usb audio adapter -> shure attenuator -> headphones shure 210 Happy
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